HANSARD 03/04-46

DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS

Speaker: Honourable Murray Scott

Published by Order of the Legislature by Hansard Reporting Services and printed by the Queen's Printer.

Available on INTERNET at http://www.gov.ns.ca/legislature/HOUSE_BUSINESS/hansard.html

Annual subscriptions available from the Office of the Speaker.

First Session

FRIDAY, MAY 14, 2004

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HALIFAX, FRIDAY, MAY 14, 2004

Fifty-ninth General Assembly

First Session

9:00 A.M.

SPEAKER

Hon. Murray Scott

DEPUTY SPEAKERS

Mr. James DeWolfe, Ms. Joan Massey, Mr. Russell MacKinnon

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please. We will begin the daily routine.

PRESENTING AND READING PETITIONS

MR. SPEAKER: The honourable member for Cape Breton West.

MR. RUSSELL MACKINNON: Mr. Speaker, I beg leave to table several petitions on behalf of the Nova Scotia Government Employees Union with regard to the 1 per cent contribution rate increase for the Public Service Pension Plan. The operative clause being:

"Therefore be it resolved that we, the undersigned, call on the Hamm government to withdraw Clause 46 of Bill 62 in favour of an extensive round of discussions with NSGEU and CUPE that will conclude by the end of 2004 about longer-term solutions to the funding problems of the Plan and the possibility of joint governance or trusteeship."

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I realize that the minister has made a statement on this issue, but I feel it's important to put this on the public record. Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: The petition is tabled.

The honourable member for Guysborough-Sheet Harbour.

MR. RONALD CHISHOLM: Mr. Speaker, I beg leave to table a petition on behalf of Arnold Cooke of Isaacs Harbour and Chris Parsons of Port Bickerton in Guysborough County, and they have been involved in a clinical study at the Queen Elizabeth II Health Sciences Centre for Fabry's disease.

The operative clause reads that the cost of the treatment is approximately $275,000 per person. Right now this cost is not covered by the provincial government, so they are asking that government review this and pay the cost. It also says June 30^th here, Mr. Speaker, but in the last week or so the provincial government extended this until August 30^th for the clinical study of this drug and are working on the cost of it.

MR. SPEAKER: And you have affixed your name?

MR. CHISHOLM: I have affixed my name to this petition, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The petition is tabled.

The honourable member for Preston.

MR. KEITH COLWELL: Mr. Speaker, I would like to table a petition that reads as follows:

"We the residents of Porters Lake and area petition the Government of Nova Scotia to have O'Connell Drive, Porters Lake between the #7 Highway and O'Connell Drive School properly repaired and be kept in good condition at all times. This road is subjected to high volumes of traffic because of the school resulting in a large number of pot holes and at times is almost impassable."

Mr. Speaker, there are 158 signatures on this and I affix my name to the petition as well.

MR. SPEAKER: The petition is tabled.

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PRESENTING REPORTS OF COMMITTEES

TABLING REPORTS, REGULATIONS AND OTHER PAPERS

STATEMENTS BY MINISTERS

GOVERNMENT NOTICES OF MOTION

MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Minister of Education.

RESOLUTION NO. 1714

HON. JAMES MUIR: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:

Whereas Wayne Barrett, Principal of Cobequid Educational Centre, which is Nova Scotia's largest high school, will retire at the end of this academic year; and

Whereas Wayne Barrett joined the CEC teaching staff in 1974, became vice-principal in 1994 and principal in 1998; and

Whereas Wayne Barrett has been a true champion of both the academic and co-curricular activities of CEC and its student body, is a faculty member who has been actively involved in some extra-curricular activities and a strong supporter of most others;

Therefore be it resolved that all members of this House congratulate and thank Wayne Barrett for his 30 years of exemplary contribution to CEC students and his 33 years to education in Nova Scotia, and extend to him and his wife, Nancy, best wishes for the future.

Mr. Speaker, I request waiver of notice.

MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.

Is it agreed?

It is agreed.

Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.

The motion is carried.

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INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

NOTICES OF MOTION

MR. SPEAKER: The honourable member for Hants East.

RESOLUTION NO. 1715

MR. JOHN MACDONELL: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:

Whereas volunteerism fills positions that otherwise could not exist; and

Whereas there can never be too many to help deliver health care services; and

Whereas on Volunteer Awards Night, April 21, 2004, Ms. Sonia Ferguson was honoured by the Municipality of East Hants for her work at the Rawdon Hills Health Centre;

Therefore be it resolved that this House of Assembly congratulate Ms. Sonia Ferguson for her fine example of contributing to the betterment of her community.

Mr. Speaker, I request waiver of notice.

MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.

Is it agreed?

It is agreed.

Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.

The motion is carried.

The honourable member for Cape Breton South.

RESOLUTION NO. 1716

MR. MANNING MACDONALD: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:

Whereas there was once a time when the member for Colchester-Musquodoboit Valley tried to revolt against the Leader of the Tory Party, but he failed in his attempt; and

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Whereas the member was rewarded for his actions by never being allowed a peek in the Cabinet Room; and

Whereas once again this member is not toeing the Party line with regard to gas prices;

Therefore be it resolved that the members of this House recognize that the member for Colchester-Musquodoboit Valley is providing more effective Opposition than the NDP.

MR. SPEAKER: The notice is tabled.

The honourable Minister of Community Services.

RESOLUTION NO. 1717

HON. DAVID MORSE: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:

Whereas former federal Liberal Minister Robert Thibault was right there to cut the ribbon when HRDC announced project funding for the new Tri-County Women's Centre in 2002; and

Whereas the former minister was nowhere to be seen when the grant ran out and the centre was facing closure in 2003; and

Whereas the MLA for Yarmouth stepped in and advocated for provincial support from the Department of Community Services, which saved the Tri-County Women's Centre;

Therefore be it resolved that when the member for Halifax Clayton Park tried to claim credit for the federal Liberals' role in this saga yesterday, she should have acknowledged the true commitment of her federal cousins in being prepared to allow the Tri-County Women's Centre to close.

Mr. Speaker, I request waiver of notice.

MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.

Is it agreed?

I hear several Noes.

The notice is tabled.

The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition.

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RESOLUTION NO. 1718

MR. DARRELL DEXTER: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:

Whereas the St. F.X. Extension Department will be holding its 18^th Topshee Memorial Conference on May 15 and 16, 2004; and

Whereas the Topshee Conferences have been held since 1984 to honour the memory of Reverend George Topshee; and

Whereas these conferences enable individuals and community-based groups to seek solutions to common issues from a social justice perspective, carrying on the spirit of the Antigonish Movement;

Therefore be it resolved that this House recognize the contribution made by the Topshee Memorial Fund, initiated by the Atlantic Federations of Labour, and extend best wishes to the delegates who will address this year's theme, People's Globalization: The World WE Want.

Mr. Speaker, I request waiver of notice.

MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.

Is it agreed?

It is agreed.

Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.

The motion is carried.

The honourable member for Preston.

RESOLUTION NO. 1719

MR. KEITH COLWELL: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:

Whereas on June 2, 2004, the YWCA will hold their Women's Recognition Luncheon to honour women who are making a difference in our community, women of vision; and

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Whereas Nina Adams of East Preston is being honoured in the category of Neighbourhood Legends - Changing our Communities through Volunteering; and

Whereas Opal Cain of Dartmouth is being honoured in the category of Workplace Innovation - Changing How We Work;

Therefore be it resolved that all members of this House congratulate Nina Adams and Opal Cain, and commend them for their devoted work to their communities.

Mr. Speaker, I request waiver of notice.

MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.

Is it agreed?

It is agreed.

Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.

The motion is carried.

The honourable member for Shelburne.

RESOLUTION NO. 1720

MR. CECIL O'DONNELL: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:

Whereas Kenney and Ross Limited from Port Saxton, Shelburne County, was recognized last night at the Export Achievement Awards Dinner; and

Whereas Kenney and Ross have had tremendous success in their exporting business, and were honoured in association with the Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters for their contribution to Nova Scotia's economy; and

Whereas Mr. Robert Welland, Vice-President of Kenney and Ross Limited, was one of the company personnel on hand last night to accept the award;

Therefore be it resolved MLAs pay tribute to Kenney and Ross Limited of Port Saxon, Shelburne County for their outstanding work and the jobs which accompany this outstanding work in Shelburne County.

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[9:15 a.m.]

Mr. Speaker, I request waiver of notice.

MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.

Is it agreed?

It is agreed.

Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.

The motion is carried.

The honourable member for Halifax Atlantic.

RESOLUTION NO. 1721

MS. MICHELE RAYMOND: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:

Whereas the Chebucto Head Light has welcomed and warned generations of mariners entering Halifax Harbour; and

Whereas the Chebucto Head Light station and keeper's house have now been abandoned by the Department of Fisheries and Oceans and are being vandalized; and

Whereas the Chebucto Head Light community group has negotiated a lease to allow them to repair and to use the lighthouse as an interpretation centre;

Therefore be it resolved that this House congratulate Dr. Annelise Chapman and the Chebucto Head Light group on this news and their efforts to increase awareness of the light station's history and the fragile coastal barrens behind them.

Mr. Speaker, I request waiver of notice.

MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.

Is it agreed?

It is agreed.

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Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.

The motion is carried.

The honourable member for Kings West.

RESOLUTION NO. 1722

MR. LEO GLAVINE: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:

Whereas the member for Cape Breton Nova says he's concerned about the loss of teaching positions at the Cape Breton-Victoria board; and

Whereas this year's provincial budget contained no new money for school boards with declining enrolments like the Cape Breton-Victoria board; and

Whereas the member for Cape Breton Nova voted in favour of the budget;

Therefore be it resolved that the member for Cape Breton Nova recognize that the Cape Breton-Victoria Regional School Board is short of money because of a budget that he and the NDP caucus supported, a budget which is hurting our public education system.

Mr. Speaker, I request waiver of notice.

MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.

Is it agreed?

I hear several Noes.

The notice is tabled.

The honourable member for Kings North.

RESOLUTION NO. 1723

MR. MARK PARENT: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:

Whereas a Grade 12 student in North East Kings Education Centre has received a $5,000 scholarship from Toyota to help pay for his post-secondary education; and

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Whereas Evan Warner spends his summers working at Sun Ship Earth Environmental Camp in Windsor and received the scholarship for his environmental leadership; and

Whereas the Canning student will use the money to attend the film program at Simon Fraser University in British Columbia;

Therefore be it resolved that the members of this House congratulate Evan Warner on winning a scholarship from Toyota and wish him much success at Simon Fraser University.

Mr. Speaker, I request waiver of notice.

MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.

Is it agreed?

It is agreed.

Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.

The motion is carried.

The honourable member for Cape Breton Nova.

RESOLUTION NO. 1724

MR. GORDON GOSSE: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:

Whereas on Sunday, June 6, 2004, at 1900 hours, Branch 128 Whitney Pier Royal Canadian Legion and Whitney Pier Memorial Junior High School will commemorate the 60^th Anniversary of D-Day; and

Whereas 60 candles will be lit to mark the anniversary of the Allied landing in Normandy during World War II; and

Whereas we must encourage young and old alike to remember the contributions made by members of our community to the war effort;

Therefore be it resolved that the Members of the Legislative Assembly congratulate Branch 128 Whitney Pier Legion for its initiative and tireless effort in remembering those who sacrificed their lives for freedom and those who continued to fight for veterans of today.

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Mr. Speaker, I request waiver of notice.

MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.

Is it agreed?

It is agreed.

Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.

The motion is carried.

The honourable member for Glace Bay.

RESOLUTION NO. 1725

MR. DAVID WILSON (Glace Bay): Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:

Whereas yesterday, the government, in order to alleviate intolerable wait lists, announced $300,000 in funding in order to assist in the provision of rehabilitation services for children at the IWK: and

Whereas the Premier commented that his government's delay in responding to the crisis was because his government is not interested in participating in programs they can't sustain and the federal government hasn't provided enough funding; and

Whereas last year's $155 rebate cheques would have sustained the $300,000 a year funding for additional rehabilitation services for some 240 years;

Therefore be it resolved that all members of this House recognize that it is priorities, not sustainability and lack of funding, that has allowed wait lists for rehabilitation services to grow at the IWK.

Mr. Speaker, I request waiver of notice.

MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.

Is it agreed?

I hear several Noes.

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The notice is tabled.

The honourable member for Eastern Shore.

RESOLUTION NO. 1726

MR. WILLIAM DOOKS: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:

Whereas a 75^th birthday is a date that should not go unrecognized; and

Whereas Vera M. McGregor celebrated this milestone on April 8^th of this year; and

Whereas Ms. McGregor makes her home in Head of Jeddore;

Therefore be it resolved that the members of this House extend their heartfelt congratulations and best wishes to Vera M. McGregor on the occasion of her 75^th birthday.

Mr. Speaker, I request waiver of notice.

MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.

Is it agreed?

It is agreed.

Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.

The motion is carried.

The honourable member for Timberlea-Prospect.

RESOLUTION NO. 1727

MR. WILLIAM ESTABROOKS: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:

Whereas the St. Margaret's Bay Lions Club recently announced its awards at its annual Charter Night; and

Whereas Lions, Carlos de Carvalho and Beatrice Brushett, were named as the Lion of the Year and Rookie of the Year respectively; and

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Whereas these Lions and members of the St. Margaret's Bay Lions Club continue to put into action the Lions' motto "We Serve";

Therefore be it resolved that this House of Assembly congratulate Beatrice Brushett and Carlos de Carvalho on being awarded Rookie of the Year and Lion of the Year by the St. Margaret's Bay Lions Club.

Mr. Speaker, I request waiver of notice.

MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.

Is it agreed?

It is agreed.

Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.

The motion is carried.

The honourable member for Halifax Clayton Park.

RESOLUTION NO. 1728

MS. DIANA WHALEN: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:

Whereas the Mainland North Volunteer Recognition Committee held its first volunteer recognition May 6, 2004, to honour volunteers who have made a difference in their community; and

Whereas Karen Robinson has worked for over 10 years to ensure a safe and healthy environment in our schools as a founding member and President of Citizens for a Safe Learning Environment; and

Whereas Ms. Robinson has averaged 25 hours volunteering a week while battling a health disability, which limits her activities, and also raising her two children;

Therefore be it resolved that the members of this House acknowledge the tremendous efforts Karen Robinson has made to make our schools a safer place and congratulate her for receiving the Mainland North Volunteer Recognition Award.

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Mr. Speaker, I request waiver of notice.

MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.

Is it agreed?

It is agreed.

Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.

The motion is carried.

The honourable Minister of Education.

RESOLUTION NO. 1729

HON. JAMES MUIR: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:

Whereas Ron Fielding was named to the Honour Roll of the Truro Sport Heritage Society for excellence in hockey; and

Whereas Ron Fielding, following an outstanding career as a minor hockey player, was a member of the 1949-50 and 1950-51 Halifax Saint Mary's junior team which won the Maritime Junior title and competed in the Memorial Cup playdowns; and

Whereas Ron Fielding played senior hockey in the APC league for three years in the 1953-54 season, set a league record by scoring 43 goals, and was selected to the all-star team;

Therefore be it resolved that this House congratulate Ron Fielding for being named to the Honour Roll of the Truro Sport Heritage Society and wish him and his wife, Lois, health and happiness in the future.

Mr. Speaker, I request waiver of notice.

MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.

Is it agreed?

It is agreed.

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Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.

The motion is carried.

The honourable member for Hants East.

RESOLUTION NO. 1730

MR. JOHN MACDONELL: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:

Whereas volunteerism is the plug that fills the holes in society that otherwise would leave us all poorer in spirit and prosperity; and

Whereas volunteering to work with hospitalized children to ease their time of suffering is a mark of a generous spirit; and

Whereas on Volunteer Awards Night, April 21, 2004, Ms. Kathy Blois was honoured by the Municipality of East Hants for her work at the IWK Health Centre;

Therefore be it resolved that this House Of Assembly congratulate Kathy Blois for her outstanding example of selflessness and caring for those most vulnerable and most precious.

Mr. Speaker, I request waiver of notice.

MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.

Is it agreed?

It is agreed.

Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.

The motion is carried.

The honourable member for Cape Breton South.

RESOLUTION NO. 1731

MR. MANNING MACDONALD: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:

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Whereas the tabling yesterday of a letter written by his Finance Minister to the federal Minister of Finance appeared to have caught the Premier by surprise, even though he had been copied on that letter and, presumably, the Minister of Finance would not have sent such a directive to Ottawa without his prior approval; and

Whereas the Premier insisted that he was in favour of getting cost-sharing dollars from Ottawa, even though he was holding in his hand a copy of the letter that said otherwise; and

Whereas it is becoming painfully clear that the Premier is not being properly briefed by his army of communications advisors;

Therefore be it resolved that the Premier insist that his director of communications and his chief of staff stop screening his mail, permit him to read letters that are copied to him, and allow him to sit in on all Cabinet meetings - even the ones where issues of substance are discussed.

Mr. Speaker, I request waiver of notice.

MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.

Is it agreed?

I hear several Noes.

The notice is tabled.

The honourable Minister of Human Resources.

RESOLUTION NO. 1732

HON. CAROLYN BOLIVAR-GETSON: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:

Whereas high school sports are so important to school morale; and

Whereas a large number of students are provided with the opportunity to participate in a variety of school sports; and

Whereas Bridgewater High School hosted and participated in the 2004 Division 3 Provincial Hockey Championships;

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Therefore be it resolved that the members of this House congratulate the Bridgewater High School hockey players and coaching staff for not only hosting the event, but winning the silver medal at the competition.

Mr. Speaker, I request waiver of notice.

MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.

Is it agreed?

It is agreed.

Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.

The motion is carried.

The honourable member for Glace Bay.

RESOLUTION NO. 1733

MR. DAVID WILSON (Glace Bay): Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:

Whereas the Tory Government has seen fit to allow for 48 hours' notice before there is a gasoline price increase, but not if the price goes down; and

Whereas the Leader of the NDP thought it was such a great idea he suggested that today's families could implement a 48-hour budget; and

Whereas maybe the 48-hour rule could be used in the House to notify the government of their potential demise;

Therefore be it resolved that the NDP should give 48 hours' notice before propping up a government, but no such requirement will be made if they finally agree to defeat them.

Mr. Speaker, I request waiver of notice.

MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.

Is it agreed?

I hear several Noes.

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The notice is tabled.

The honourable member for Timberlea-Prospect.

RESOLUTION NO. 1734

MR. WILLIAM ESTABROOKS: I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:

Whereas Ridgecliff Middle School is planning a "Night of Art and Fashion" as a fundraiser for the Fine Arts Program and the Teen Health Centre at that school; and

Whereas students from the art program will have their art work on display; and

Whereas students will also present a fashion show, modelling their own creations made from recycled materials;

Therefore be it resolved that this House of Assembly extend its best wishes to the organizers and students of Ridgecliff on their "Night of Art and Fashion" fundraiser.

Mr. Speaker, I request waiver of notice.

MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.

Is it agreed?

It is agreed.

Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.

The motion is carried.

The honourable member for Cape Breton South.

MR. MANNING MACDONALD: Mr. Speaker, would you please revert to the order of business, Introduction of Bills.

MR. SPEAKER: Is it agreed?

It is agreed.

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INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

MR. SPEAKER: The honourable member Victoria-The Lakes.

Bill No. 81 - Entitled an Act to Amend Chapter 199 of the Revised Statutes, 1989. The Heritage Property Act. (Mr. Gerald Sampson)

[9:30 a.m.]

MR. SPEAKER: Ordered that this bill be read a second time on a future day.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

GOVERNMENT BUSINESS

MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Government House Leader.

HON. RONALD RUSSELL: Mr. Speaker, would you please call the order of business, Public Bills for Third Reading.

PUBLIC BILLS FOR THIRD READING

MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Government House Leader.

HON. RONALD RUSSELL: Mr. Speaker, would you please call Bill No. 49.

Bill No. 49 - Mi'kmaq Education Act.

MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Minister of Education.

HON. JAMES MUIR: Mr. Speaker, I'm pleased to have the opportunity to review the amendment we proposed for the Mi'kmaq Education Act. It acknowledges First Nation communities in Nova Scotia that have autonomy from the federal government to deliver their own educational programs for their learners. It also requires that these programs be comparable to those offered in Nova Scotia's public schools so that students can transfer back and forth.

The Bear River First Nation is taking the initiative to attain autonomy for education for its community, the band requested this amendment so its autonomy is recognized by the provincial government. We're pleased to accommodate this request and if there are no questions or further comments, I move third reading of this bill.

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MR. SPEAKER: The honourable member for Hants East.

MR. JOHN MACDONELL: Mr. Speaker, I'm glad to make a few comments and I will be brief. I certainly see this as a positive step. It would obviously make sense that this band would like to have their name added to the schedule. I still want to reiterate my comments in second reading, in particular to the minister, that presently only the Education Minister in British Columbia gathers detailed evidence on Aboriginal school outcomes. I would say that there still is some work that needs to be done in this area and that the minister would be well advised to stay on top of this issue and ensure that expected outcomes are the outcomes that we're getting.

When the minister rises to close debate, I would be curious to know, when I look at the original Act, Mr. Speaker, that brought the other bands into this Act, I was curious to find power to amend the schedule, which means, as I read it, that the Governor in Council can amend the schedule and they can add the name of any band to the schedule under the existing Act. So, I was curious, when I saw that, that the minister actually brought in this bill to add the Bear River Band to this schedule. So if the minister could some brief explanation of why he did it in this way rather than by Order in Council, that's just a curiosity that I have. But I see this as a positive step and I encourage the minister to keep his attention close to the outcomes of students in schools on Reserves in the province. Those communities want the same things for their children as all communities do. Being a former educator, I see education as a way to create options for students and so to have any mechanism that opens more doors rather than close them is a good thing. So, Mr. Speaker, we're very supportive of this legislation.

MR. SPEAKER: If I recognize the minister it will be to close the debate.

The honourable Minister of Education.

HON. JAMES MUIR: I thank him for that intervention and I'm going to have to find that answer to that question for him. I'm pleased to move third reading of Bill No. 49.

MR. SPEAKER: The motion is for third reading of Bill No. 49. Is the House ready for the question? Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.

The motion is carried.

Ordered that this bill do pass. Ordered that the title be as read by the Clerk. Ordered that the bill be engrossed.

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The honourable Government House Leader.

HON. RONALD RUSSELL: Mr. Speaker, would you please call Bill No. 50.

Bill No. 50 - Credit Union Act.

MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Government House Leader.

HON. RONALD RUSSELL: Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the Minister of Environment and Labour, I move third reading of Bill No. 50.

MR. SPEAKER: The honourable member for Cape Breton South.

MR. MANNING MACDONALD: Mr. Speaker, I just want to rise for a few moments on this particular bill and say at the outset how proud I am as an individual to be a long-time member of the Sydney Credit Union, 45 years, actually, and past president of that organization. Today, one in four people in industrial Cape Breton belong to a credit union and that's significant, and a departure from the traditional role in the past of credit unions always being thought of in our community and other communities across the province, as perhaps a level below, in terms of a financial institution, than the banks.

This bill helps to remind Nova Scotians of the importance of credit unions in Nova Scotia, and the importance of the kind of role they play in the community. I, for one, want to congratulate the government for pushing this bill forward and also to the members of the House for agreeing unanimously to support this bill. It is a bill whose time has come and I believe it is one step further in this province, to telling Nova Scotians of the vital role that credit unions play. Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: If I recognize the minister it will be to close the debate.

The honourable Government House Leader.

HON. RONALD RUSSELL: Mr. Speaker, I move third reading of Bill No. 50.

MR. SPEAKER: The motion is for third reading of Bill No. 50. Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.

The motion is carried.

Ordered that this bill do pass. Ordered that the title be as read by the Clerk. Ordered that the bill be engrossed.

[Page 3714]

The honourable Government House Leader.

HON. RONALD RUSSELL: Mr. Speaker, would you please call Bill No. 51.

Bill No. 51 - Provincial Acadian Day Act.

MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Minister responsible for Acadian Affairs.

HON. CHRISTOPHER D'ENTREMONT: Mr. Speaker, I am honoured to stand in my place today and move third reading of Bill No. 51, an Act to Establish a Provincial Acadian Day, la loi instituant la Fête provinciale des Acadiens et Acadiennes.

MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Leader of the Liberal Party.

MR. WAYNE GAUDET: Mr. Speaker, I'm pleased to rise to say a few words on third reading of Bill No. 51, the Provincial Acadian Day Act.

M. le President, ça fait longtemps que les Acadiens et Acadiennes fête le 15 août. Je comprend que ça fait depuis 1881 qu'on celebre notre fête nationale.

Mr. Speaker, August 15^th has been recognized since 1881 by Acadians as our national holiday and today Acadians in our province are delighted to see our provincial government recognizing August 15^th as Provincial Acadian Day.

Cette année marke la 400e anniversaire de l'arriver des français en Amerique du Nord. En 1604, 400 ans passé, l'arriver Sieur de Monts et de Samuel de Champlain accompanier d'habitants francais debarkent sur les rives de la Nouvelle-Écosse.

This year marks the 400^th Anniversary of the first French settlers in North America.

Aujourd'hui les Acadiens at les Acadiennes de cette province se rejouice de voir la province recontre la fête nationale des Acadiens le 15 août. La tenue de 3e Congrès Mondial ici en Nouvelle-Écosse cette été invite a rapeller la naissance d'un petit peuple, celui des Acadiens at les Acadiennes. M. le President, ce petit peuple a une histoire, a un drapeau, un hymne national, et a une fête nationale. J'encourage tous les Neo-Ecossaits de participer et associer à ce grand événement cultural acadiens cette été.

This Summer, Mr. Speaker, Nova Scotia will host an international gathering of the Acadians. Le Congres Mondial Acadien will be held from July 31^st to August 15^th and many events are planned to be held around the province. I encourage all Nova Scotians to participate in these very special celebrations of Acadian culture.

[Page 3715]

M. le President, je veux ajouter, avant de terminer, quelque mots pour raconnaître la personne responsable pour avoir fait le promotion à le government du jour que le Nouvelle-Ecosse soit hôte pour le 3e Congrès Mondial cette été. M. le President, cette personne est l'ancien directure exécutif du bureau des Affaires Acadiens, M. Paul Gaudet de la besad Marie. Je me souviens, avant la tenue du 2e Congrès des Acadiens en Louisiane en 1999, que M. Gaudet travaillait sur cette dosier et manquait jamais la chance a lobbié le government provincial de jour a appuier ses effortes pour que la tenue du 3e Congrès Mondial des Acadiens soit ici en Nouvelle-Écosse en 2004.

In closing, I want to recognize Paul Gaudet, former executive director of Acadian Affairs as the person responsible for lobbying the provincial government of the day to support his efforts that Nova Scotia should host this international gathering of the Acadians this Summer. With that, Mr. Speaker, I will take my seat.

MR. SPEAKER: The honourable member for Halifax Fairview.

MR. GRAHAM STEELE: Merci, M. le President. Je n'as jamais eu au paravant l'occasion de parler français ici dans l'Assemblé Legislative et c'est ma première fois pour parler. Je suis souvant la porte parler en langue français pour l'NPD. C'est n'a pas parce que je suis francophone; c'est n'a pas parce que je suis Acadien; mais c'est parce que je parle français mieux que tous les autes débutés dans notre comité électorale. Mais il y a parmi nous des débutés qui parle français aussi comme le débuté de Sackville-Cobiquid ou le débuté de Halifax Atlantic. Je sait que mon collegue, l'Acadien dans notre comité électorale, M. Deveaux, le membre de Cole Habour-Eastern Passage veut amèliorer son francais et redécouvrir son hértiage Acadien.

Nous sommes fièrs pour dire que nous donnons notre appuie à ce project de loi mais ils faut reconnaître que la seule chose que cette project de loi fait est de reconnaître la fête provinciale des Acadiens et des Acadiennes. C'est une étape importante pour cette Assemblé Legislative de reconnaître la fête provinciale mais, comme nous avons entendu pendant le deuxième lecture sur cette project de loi, c'est seulement la première étape. Il y a des questions très importantes au quelle nous devons faire face. Le débuté de Richmond a soulèvé des questions sur ce que nous faisons ici dans l'Assemblé Legislative. La question du drapeau Acadien, qu'on a ici sur les terrains de l'Assemblé, mais c'est quelque chose temporaire. Est-ce que ca peux être quelque chose permanent? C'est une bonne question. Il a soulèvé aussi la question de la traduction, que la tranduction soit disponible ici dans l'Assemblé pour les débutés qui veux l'exprimer en français, dans leure langue maternelle.

Notre communauté Acadienne a s'addresse au des questions surtout sur l'éducation. Nous avons le Conseil Scholar Acadien provincial mais je lu hier, M. le President, que les Acadiens, la communauté Acadienne veux s'addresse maintenant au question de pouvoir s'exprimer en français dans la système de santé. Ça c'est une question aussi difficile et c'est une bonne question aussi. Est-ce que nous sommes prêt a s'addresser ses questions? Il n'y a

[Page 3716]

aucune question que livrer des services de santè en français va couter. Ça n'a pas quelque chose qu'on peux livrer gratuitment. Est-ce que cette Assemblé Legislative est prêt a allée plus loin que des mots, que cette project de loi et accordé un budget à fin que la communauté Acadienne peux reçevoir des services de santé en français, tout comme maintenant il reçoit des services en éducation?

Alors, cette project de loi est une première étape, est une bonne première étape. Ça va recevoir l'appuie unanime de cette Assemblé, j'en suis sûre, mais il y a d'autres questions plus difficiles au quelles nous devons faire face. Merci, M. le President.

[9:45 a.m.]

MR. SPEAKER: The honourable member for Richmond.

MR. MICHEL SAMSON: Merci, M. le President. Ça me faire plaisir de dire quelques mots sure le project de loi No.51 qui reconnaître la journée Acadienne ici a Nouvelle-Écosse. J'avais pas l'intention de dire quelques mots de fait que mon chef, le débuté de Clare, avait dèja presenté, mais je voulais prende cette occasion pour féliciter mon collègue de Halifax Fairview pour avoir presenter ici a cette assemblé aujourd'hui. J'ai vu qu'il n'avais pas de notes, qu'il a parlé juste lui meme de son coeur et de ses idées. La seule chose que j'enais de regrèt, c'est que aujoud'hui est sa première fois qu'il s'a pronouce. Je l'encourage de se pronoucer dans la fûtur en français parce que, comme vous avez bien vu après que son discours, les membres ont très bien aimer la façon qu'il s'a presente, les choses qu'il avait a dire at tout ça. Puis, je suis content qu'il a soulévé des pointes que j'ai dèja soulévé ici à la maison.

C'est sans question que si on avait la traduction ici à l'Assemblé que les débutés qui ne sont pas comfortable en français pouvait entendre plus de français ici et avoir la traduction pour comprende les mots, comprende qu'est-ce que c'est qu'ils veux le dire. J'ai pas de doute qu'on aurait plus de débutés qui voudrait avoir le courage de se presenter en français. Je m'en rapelle même, M. le President, que le Ministre des Services Communautaires, pas longtemps après qu'il était élu une journée s'avait presenté lui même en français. Le débuté de Kings South, je suis bien contente de l'entendre lui aussi faire ses effortes de se presenter en français et j'encourage que lui aussi fait plus dans le futur.

Si qu'on anait des services de traduction, c'est sans question que ca soit plus facile pour les debutes d'avoir confiance de se presenter en français. Une chose que je peux vous dire, c'est souvant qu'on entend des gens qui nous dit "Je ne suis pas trop comfortable de me presenter français, je pense pas que je pronounce les mots très biens, il y a des mots que je connais pas." Je peux vous dire, comme vous avez vous avec le débuté de Halifax Fairview qui a très bien presenter, la communauté Acadienne, la communauté français ici a la Nouvelle-Écosse, est toujours fièr de voirs leurs débutés veulle essaier au moins de se presenter en français, de dire quelques mots. En 2004, je pense que c'est quelque chose avec un pays qui

[Page 3717]

est bilangue que c'est toujours bon d'avoir des membres élus qui font un effort de voulour se presenter en français et les collègues français de se presenter en anglais.

Alors, comme dèja dit par des differentes débutés, ceçi va être un très grande annèe pour la communauté Acadienne, ce project de loi est une étape pour le province a reconnaître le 15 août comme la journée du peuple Acadien. J'encourage tous les débutés de faire participation, soit au reunion de famille, soit au different évenements qui vont prendre place dans des communautés où ca va prende place, soit ici au Halifax, soit au Cape-Breton, cette été. Cette une été pour celebrer la communauté Acadienne, pour celebre l'Acadie. J'encourage tous les membres de tous les coins de province de s'impliquer et de nous joindre en félicitons l'année de l'Acadie.

Une chose qui a toujours était dit de les Acadiens, c'est comment chaleureux ils sont et comment ils sont tourjours pret pour reçevoir le peuple et d'avior un bon temps. Alors je vous encourage d'en participer a ses événements et faire 2004 une annee que pas juste la communauté Acadienne peut être fière mais tout la province de Nouvelle-Écosse peut être fièr de notre heritage Acadien et du peuple Acadien et la culture qui demure très forte ici en Nouvelle-Écosse en 2004. Merci, M. le President.

HON. CHRISTOPHER D'ENTREMONT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. J'ai apprecie les commentaires des membres de Clare, de Richmond, et de Halifax Fairview pour le travail a faire cette échange en français. J'amerais remercier la Federation Acadienne de Nouvelle-Écosse pour approcher le government pour demander cette honour sur l'affaire du peuple Acadien et M. Stan Surrette qui a fait cette approche. J'amerais aussi remercier Mme Vaughne Madden, Ronald Bourgeois qui on fait beaucoup de travail pour faire certain que le Congrès Mondial 2004 sera ici a Nouvelle-Écosse cette année.

Mr. Speaker, I would also like to invite all the members here in the House to participate in the activities of the Congres Mondial Acadien 2004. It will be travelling the province, starting off in Clare and I'm sure the member for Clare will be very busy during those few weeks. The member for Richmond will be very busy as well. It'll be moving to the middle show in Cheticamp. I forget the exact date on that one - anyway the middle of the show. Of course, on August 15^th, which is now going to be the Provincial Acadian Day, for the finale here in Halifax with the mass, of course, in the afternoon in Grand Pre. I invite everybody to participate and enjoy the family reunions that will be happening.

Mr. Speaker, I move third reading of Bill No. 51.

MR. SPEAKER: The motion is for third reading of Bill No. 51. Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.

[Page 3718]

The motion is carried.

Ordered that the bill do pass. Ordered that the title be as read by the Clerk. Ordered that the bill be engrossed.

The honourable Government House Leader.

HON. RONALD RUSSELL: Mr. Speaker, would you please call Bill No. 67.

Bill No. 67 - House of Assembly Act.

Bill No. 68 - International Interests in Mobile Aircraft Equipment Act.

MR. SPEAKER: Ordered that these bills do pass. Ordered that the titles be as read by the Clerk. Ordered that these bills be engrossed.

The honourable Government House Leader.

HON. RONALD RUSSELL: Mr. Speaker, I move that you do now leave the Chair and the House resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole House on Bills.

[MR. SPEAKER: Is it agreed?

It is agreed.]

[9:53 a.m. The House resolved itself into a CWH on Bills with Deputy Speaker Ms. Joan Massey in the Chair.]

[10:02 a.m. CWH on Bills rose and the House reconvened with Deputy Speaker Mr. James DeWolfe in the Chair.]

MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Government House Leader.

HON. RONALD RUSSELL: Mr. Speaker, for the information of members, Bill No. 26, which is the Health Protection Act which is in committee, we will return to that Act after we have dealt with a couple of bills for second reading. We have two bills on the Order Paper. Mr. Speaker, would you please call Bill No. 79. (Interruptions) Oh, you haven't done that yet?

MR. SPEAKER: The Chairman of the Committee of the Whole House on Bills reports:

[Page 3719]

THE CLERK: That the committee has met and considered the following bills:

Bill No. 46 - Public Service Act.

Bill No. 48 - Education Act.

Bill No. 61 - Theatres and Amusements Act.

and the chairman has been instructed to recommend these bills to the favourable consideration of the House, each without amendment.

MR. SPEAKER: Ordered these bills be read a third time on a future day.

The honourable Government House Leader.

HON. RONALD RUSSELL: Mr. Speaker, would you please call the order of business, Public Bills for Second Reading.

PUBLIC BILLS FOR SECOND READING

HON. RONALD RUSSELL: Mr. Speaker, would you please call Bill No. 79.

Bill No. 79 - Petroleum Products Pricing Act.

MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Minister of Service Nova Scotia and Municipal Relations.

HON. BARRY BARNET: Mr. Speaker, I'm pleased to move Bill No. 79, the Petroleum Products Pricing Act. Before I do that, I want to take this opportunity to convey to members of the House that this piece of legislation will enable government to act and provide consumers with a level of certainty and protection with respect to fuel pricing. It will also provide us an opportunity after the select committee meets to determine the best course of action for Nova Scotians. It's something that Nova Scotians have been asking me, as minister and us as government, to do for a number of months and I'm pleased to move Bill No. 79.

MR. SPEAKER: The honourable member for Halifax Fairview.

MR. GRAHAM STEELE: Mr. Speaker, I'm pleased to rise today to spend a few minutes, certainly not the full hour that's available to me, but a few minutes anyway addressing this bill that was introduced by the government just yesterday, Entitled an Act Respecting the Price of Petroleum Products. There are some things that need to be said today, Mr. Speaker, on behalf of my caucus.

[Page 3720]

First of all, I think it's important that everybody realize that even though we're in the midst of what you might call a gasoline price crisis, this bill extends to more than just gasoline for private passenger vehicles. I won't read the definition of petroleum product here, but if I can summarize, Mr. Speaker, this bill applies to any fuel used for heat, a very important issue since Nova Scotia, unlike many other provinces, has about two-thirds of its homes heated by petroleum products. Almost two-thirds of homes heated by petroleum products. The price of heating fuel is of very fundamental importance to the people of Nova Scotia, and this bill applies to that issue.

I think it's extremely important, that before we have a crisis with home heating fuel prices next winter, that we get the problem solved now. We have a chance, we are in the middle of a gasoline price crisis, we are not in the middle of a home heating fuel crisis because we are at the end of the Winter heating season, and we have a number of months before the next home heating season is upon us, and we have a real opportunity here to do the right thing and head off the problem before it even arises. I do want to make clear to all members and to the people that we represent that this bill applies to home heating fuel as well.

Then, of course, it applies to any petroleum product used, primarily for internal combustion engines, or something - I'm not a mechanical person, Mr. Speaker, and I have to admit that there is something in the bill here, that I don't even know what it is. I'm sure I'll be enlightened over the course of the next few months - a glow-plug ignition system. The minister tells me that he can inform us what that is. It is any fuel used in an internal combustion engine and any fuel used in a glow-plug ignition system. I'm told that's simply the description of an engine that runs on diesel fuel. See how easy it was to educate myself? Apparently a number of members around me are more mechanically inclined than I am. It is any fuel used in an internal combustion engine or in a diesel engine.

The thing that I particularly wanted to underline in my remarks in second reading today, Mr. Speaker, is the enormous difference between what the government announced yesterday, and what is actually in the bill. The government news release is very different from the bill. Today the media dutifully reported what was in the government news release, but they didn't report what was in the bill. What was in the government news release is nowhere to be found in the bill. That's a bit peculiar. In fact, I was watching Peter Mansbridge on the CBC news last night, the 10:00 o'clock national news, and he went beyond misreporting the bill, what he reported to a waiting national audience was that the Nova Scotia Legislature had passed the bill already. I do think that people who are reporting on this issue need to be a little more careful about what they are actually saying.

The centrepiece of the government's announcement yesterday was 48 hours notice; 48 hours notice of a price increase, I don't know if it would surprise you to learn, that that is not in the bill that is before us today. It's not there. What this bill is, is a broadly empowering piece of legislation that gives the government the power to do all kinds of things by regulation. You go clause by clause in the bill, and it says that this may be done by

[Page 3721]

regulation, that may be done by regulation, this may be prescribed, that may be prescribed, and if it is prescribed that's what you do, but no one reading this bill would actually have any idea what the government's policy is on petroleum products pricing.

In particular, the 48 hours' notice, is not in this bill. That is something that apparently the government is proposing to do by regulation. I say apparently because as has become all too common in this Legislature, the government has tabled a skeleton piece of legislation with no regulations attached, giving themselves the power to do all kinds of things by regulation. What's going to be in the regulation? The members of this House have no idea because the government hasn't told us. Does the government know what it wants to do by regulation? The only thing that they said yesterday was "48 hours' notice".

Mr. Speaker, last night there was a commentator who I thought, used a good line, and I'm going to use it again because it was such a good line, but since Ralph Klein is getting in trouble these days for not properly attributing his quotes, I think I better properly attribute them - this came from Marilla Stephenson of The ChronicleHerald as she spoke on CBC News last night. She said - and I thought it just captured exactly what this bill is - "It is the least the government can do without doing nothing." The least the government can do without doing nothing and that's because, really, when you get right down to it, all the government announced yesterday was the 48 hours notice. Now, we'll have to wait to see if it's a good thing.

I do have to say, Mr. Speaker, that Dave Collins from Wilsons Fuel, who is just about the only person who ever speaks from the industry side on this, because he represents an independent fuel company, an extensively independent fuel company - the big players, big oil, they refuse to talk about this and so the media has one talker and one talker only and that's Dave Collins. I like Mr. Collins. He's a good person. He helps to, I think, educate the public about what's going on out there, and he's a voice of some reason and some knowledge, which we can all benefit from. But yesterday he didn't really pull out the stops. He was about as colourful as he could possibly be. He said whoever dreamed this up is living proof that there are living brain donors, which I didn't think was very kind. He said it was bizarre. I think he said - I think he used the word "stupid".

I'm not saying it's stupid, Mr. Speaker, because that would be unparliamentary - I'm simply quoting what Mr. Collins was calling a stupid, bizarre, proof of a living brain donor. So Mr. Collins clearly doesn't think that this is going to do it. Now, we have to say that we're going to have to see how this works. Let's just say that Mr. Collins is highly skeptical that it will work, but it hasn't been tried before and we have to wait and see. We have to wait and see, we can't just say right off the bat it's not going to work, it can't work, it's going to make things worse. We're going to have to wait and see, because if you're going to give the government a tiny little bit of credit for the baby step that it took yesterday, it's that this government is the first provincial government in Canada to do something, to take a step, and

[Page 3722]

that's a good thing. The government should be congratulated for that. Whether it's enough . . .

MR. SPEAKER: Would the member agree to an introduction?

MR. STEELE: Of course, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The honourable member for Waverley-Fall River-Beaver Bank, on an introduction.

MR. GARY HINES: Mr. Speaker, I want to apologize to my group from the Holland Road Elementary School for not meeting them and greeting them when they came in, but I was at the Law Amendments Committee across the hall. For those of you here, in the east gallery we have a group of students from the Holland Road School - accompanied by Brenda Greencorn, Brad Murray, Beth Benjamin, Darlene Burgess, Elaine Johnson, Marika Lathem and Yvonne Gordon. I would like them to stand and be recognized by the Legislature for their attendance today and I thank them. (Applause)

MR. SPEAKER: Welcome to all the members viewing the Legislature today.

MR. STEELE: Mr. Speaker, I was saying, before we welcomed our guests today, the government should be congratulated for taking a step, for recognizing that sitting on the sidelines is not a good option. Whether the step they took yesterday is enough is something that we'll have to wait and see, and we'll know fairly soon I would say. We will know very soon, as soon as this legislation is passed, whether it's going to benefit Nova Scotian consumers.

I was saying that this legislation is broad, enabling legislation - leaving everything, including the 48 hours, to be filled in later. There are a lot of blanks here to be filled in, and it looks like the second piece of the government's plan, the select committee of this Legislature is the body that is going to be charged, principally, with filling in those blanks.

[10:15 a.m.]

Mr. Speaker, I have a lot of questions about this select committee, how it could work, how it might work. I don't want to see it set up to fail, but I worry about whether this select committee is the best method to address this kind of problem. There's no question that on some level, this is a very technical, complex problem. The members of the committee are going to have to deal with some very complicated, factual, financial, economic information, and they're going to have to be able to work with that information, digest it, understand what it means, and then be able to make choices on behalf of Nova Scotia consumers.

[Page 3723]

If this committee is going to work, it's going to need to be properly resourced, Mr. Speaker. If it is not, it will be the captive of the experts. It will be the captive of people who know the industry inside out already. This committee is going to have to have the resources to, for example, hire its own independent expert help, to help the members wade through the undoubted difficulties of this issue. This is more than just travelling around the province and listening to people complain about high gas prices.

There's going to be a lot more to the work of this select committee than that. We need members on that committee who are going to roll up their sleeves and be prepared to get to work and - Mr. Speaker, if I may use a cliche - put their partisan differences aside, put their preconceived ideas aside, about what to do, because it seems clear that no one, no one person, no one Party, no one stakeholder in the industry has the answer about what to do, because if the answer was clear, it would have already been done.

Our responsibility as members of this Legislature is to make sure that the committee is set up in such a way that if there is an answer, if there is a way to defend the interests of Nova Scotia consumers, that committee will find it.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please. I wonder if the member would agree to yielding some of his time for still another introduction.

MR. STEELE: Of course I would, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition.

MR. DARRELL DEXTER: Mr. Speaker, I'm pleased to introduce, in the west gallery, participants in the Nova Scotia Government Employees Union Political Lobby Workshop. They're, of course, learning more about the political process and lobbying over the next couple of days. I understand that they're here this morning to meet with MLAs, and they're going to be meeting with caucus office representations this afternoon. I would especially note Ian Johnson, who is not, of course, unknown to this House, having served in our caucus office at one point and is often here on various matters of concern to the NSGEU and, of course, to the people of Nova Scotia. I would like to extend a warm welcome. (Applause)

MR. SPEAKER: Indeed, welcome to the members from NSGEU. We are debating Bill No. 79 - the Petroleum Products Pricing Act today for your enjoyment.

The honourable member for Halifax Fairview.

MR. STEELE: Mr. Speaker, if our guests want to take a case study on lobbying, this would be a great issue to do it, because there's a lot of money at stake here, a lot of money flowed. In fact, Mr. Collins, who I just finished quoting, says another thing in the paper today,

[Page 3724]

which is that none of the big oil companies wants to take the risk of launching a price war here in Halifax. What's the reason that Mr. Collins offers for that? It's because they have too much money to lose.

Mr. Speaker, I've said before in the House and I'll say again that my parents don't live in Nova Scotia, they live in Winnipeg. Winnipeg is currently paying almost 20 cents a litre less than we do here. So I talk to my father regularly, and among other things we talk about gas prices. There has been a gas price war in Winnipeg for an extended period, and if you shop around enough and know what the different outlets are offering, you can get a good deal. They're ready, willing and able to undercut each other.

Around here in Halifax, it's all exactly the same price. You can go from one end of Metro to the other, from south to north, from west to east and you're going to pay exactly the same price. They say, don't interfere with us, we're a competitive industry. Mr. Speaker, is baloney parliamentary? ( Laughter) Because that's baloney, and Mr. Collins says as much in the paper today. None of them wants to really compete with one another because why - because they have too much money to lose, and whose money is it? It's our money, the consumer's money. They want to take our money, as much of it as possible and keep it, and if that means that they all kind of have a nudge-nudge, wink-wink attitude towards gas prices so that nobody will try to compete with somebody across the city, never mind down the street. Well, they'll do that.

There's a lot of money at stake here. I expect the members of the select committee to be subject to a full court press from the big oil companies to bamboozle them at the very least, to misinform them at the worst, Mr. Speaker, because there's a great deal of money at stake. One of the responsibilities of this select committee is to make sure that their process is as open and transparent as possible, so that the consumers know that whatever answers come out the other end, are done in the interests of the consumers and not in the interests of the big oil companies.

Mr. Speaker, having said that, nobody should be under any illusion that Nova Scotia can stand as an island isolated from world fuel prices. If fuel prices are going up around the world then we have to pay those prices too. Nobody, should be under any illusion that this government or any other government has the power to protect Nova Scotia consumers from a worldwide price. If it's going up, as all the analysts predict, in the long-term over the next 10 years, it's heading nowhere but up. We are all going to have to live with the consequences of that. We are all going to have to have more fuel-efficient cars. I've been fortunate enough over the course of my life to be able to travel fairly frequently, including to Europe. That's where my parents are from, so that's where all my relatives are. One of the things I noticed, even as a little boy travelling to the United Kingdom, was that their cars were so much smaller then ours. Of course with a little boy's curiosity - yes, the Austin Mini came from Britain and that's not an accident. Why, I would ask as a little boy, are their cars so different from ours? It's because their fuel prices always were and still are, double, triple what we pay here.

[Page 3725]

They've all adjusted over there. The main way that they've adjusted is by driving much smaller, more fuel-efficient cars.

We're going to have to the same thing with our homes. We're going to have to find ways of making our homes more energy efficient. There are all kinds of things that we need to do. Nova Scotia consumers should not be under the illusion, with this bill or without this bill, with or without a select committee, that the price of fuel, heating fuel and motor fuel, is going to go down. What we're committing to Nova Scotia consumers today is not a low price. We can't do that. The price is what the price is. What we are committing to Nova Scotia consumers is that we will do everything in our power to get for them a fair price, so that there are not undue profits being reaped by anyone, so that Nova Scotia consumers know that they are paying what they should pay, and not one-tenth of one penny more.

This select committee is going to have to, as I said, Mr. Speaker, go into this with an open mind. We've suggested things in the past. The Liberal Party has suggested things in the past. The Progressive Conservative Party has, well, they haven't really suggested anything in the past, until recently. They've been the free-market crowd over there until the beautiful member for Colchester-Musquodoboit Valley sort of broke ranks and said, no, it's time to act.

AN HON. MEMBER: Beautiful member . . .

MR. STEELE: It's time to act. Do you know what, Mr. Speaker? What's worried me is that's not the only issue that member and I have agreed on in the last couple of weeks.

AN HON. MEMBER: Now this will be very shocking . . .

MR. STEELE: Now the government side (Interruptions) Mr. Speaker, I wonder if I could get a little less heckling from my own side here?

AN HON. MEMBER: Is there something we don't know . . .

MR. SPEAKER: Order, order. The member for Halifax Fairview is speaking to the beautiful member for Colchester-Musquodoboit Valley. (Laughter)

MR. STEELE: Mr. Speaker, the government of the Progressive Conservative caucus has come on board, acknowledging that staying on the sidelines is not an option. Now we're going to have to lay aside what we've said before. We're going to have to go into it with an open mind and it may turn out at the end of the select committee process that we were right all along, or, it may turn out we were wrong and if we are, we have to acknowledge that and so does the Liberal caucus. They have their own ideas - I don't agree with their ideas, they don't agree with ours - but if it turns out that they're right all along, then we all have to

[Page 3726]

acknowledge that at the end of this process. If it turns out they're wrong, they're going to have to acknowledge that as well.

Mr. Speaker, I know our caucus is ready to go into this select committee process with an open mind knowing that what we're trying to achieve is the fairest price possible for the people that we all serve. I know that the members from all the other caucuses will be going in with the same attitude. We do have to learn from everybody.

MR. SPEAKER: Would the member yield for an introduction?

MR. STEELE: I would certainly accede to an introduction.

MR. SPEAKER: The honourable member for Kings North.

MR. MARK PARENT: Thank you very much. I appreciate the opportunity. In the Speaker's Gallery is CAO Brian Smith of Kings Municipal Council and John Fuller, a councillor from the area representing the area near Wolfville. They're here to present on Bill No. 40, they have some strong concerns about it and they'll be in the Red Room making their presentation. I hope the House will give them a very warm welcome and I ask them to stand. (Applause)

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, member. The honourable member for Halifax Fairview we'll attempt to allow you to finish your dissertation without interruption.

MR. STEELE: Thank you. Mr. Speaker, members will be pleased to hear that I'm almost done.

Bill No. 80 that the Leader of the Opposition introduced in the House yesterday is part of the answer. That has to do with fair dealing between branded dealers and dealers who are not part of a network. We have to make sure not only that the price at the pump is fair for Nova Scotia consumers, but also the way the big oil companies treat their dealers is fair. Every step in the production and distribution and retail process has an impact on price. We're going to have to look at every step of that. I know the select committee will look at Bill No. 80 and the proposal that's in there because it seems surely to be part of the solution.

Even though I personally don't agree with it, based on what I know now, this committee is going to have to look seriously at the Liberal Party proposal that part of the answer here is to cut the gas tax. That has implications. That has implications for the provincial budget. If you're going to give away your revenue, you have to also be prepared to stand up and say which services you want to cut, or, alternatively, where you're going to make up the revenue, which other tax you're going to increase. You can't have it both ways. You can't cut your revenue and then pretend to the people of Nova Scotia that nothing else is going to change.

[Page 3727]

But, if that's the answer, if the tax levels on gas are too high, then that's something the select committee has to look at seriously. I would note in passing that the federal Liberal Government has entirely rejected the notion that federal gas taxes should be cut. The federal Minister of Finance has said that is not one of the options on the table. I would also note in passing that cutting provincial gas taxes is something that was tried by the former Liberal Government of New Brunswick. Everybody acknowledges that it didn't work. It did not work. All that it did, in effect, was take that government revenue and put it in the pockets of the oil companies. That's what it did and we have to frankly acknowledge that. I know the member for Richmond has been quoted as saying that that adverse consequence can be avoided and I do hope that the select committee will look seriously at that proposal to see if that can, in fact, be done.

[10:30 a.m.]

I personally believe that the more fruitful thing to look at is HST because that is the tax, since it's a percentage tax, that when prices spike, the government gets a great deal extra revenue whereas the other tax is a flat per litre tax. The government doesn't get any more revenue from the flat gas tax when the price goes up. What it does get is windfall HST revenue and when I say windfall, what I mean is it's revenue for which the government did not budget.

Let's never forget, one of the major reasons why the government was able to balance its budget last year, or I should say apparently balance its budget, because the Public Accounts aren't in yet and won't be for awhile, Mr. Speaker, the only reason they were able to apparently balance their budget - no, that's not fair - let me go back to what I said, it's not the only reason, a major reason was because they reaped windfall revenue from the tax on insurance premiums. When car insurance rates went through the roof, the government happily collected the percentage tax that it imposed on insurance premiums. So there's no question that this government's bottom line benefited substantially from skyrocketing car insurance and there's also no question that the government Treasury stands to benefit substantially to the tune of many millions of dollars because of HST on fuel. If the price goes through the roof, so do government revenues and we're going to have to confront that fact and deal with it to see if that's really where we want to go.

Mr. Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition has made what, in my estimation, is an excellent suggestion and that is that the windfall revenue should be put aside as a fund to help with what could otherwise be the home heating fuel crisis this coming winter. That's where the money should come from, Mr. Speaker, to fund that program. It's a good suggestion, but every day that ticks by without us doing that is lost revenue and the lesser chance for a program like that working.

Now, that's where I stand today, Mr. Speaker, but I would say again, the select committee needs to look at these ideas seriously to see if that's the way to go. We need to

[Page 3728]

learn from the other regulated and unregulated jurisdictions. We hear many things about Prince Edward Island which is a regulated system - does it work has it led to higher prices, has it not led to higher prices. We do know that they're paying a lower pump price than we are now, but what the select committee is going to have to delve into with an open mind is whether that's because of regulation or despite regulation. I would suggest the committee should also look at Newfoundland and any other jurisdiction anywhere that has ideas about how to make sure that consumers get a fair price at the pump. That's what we're all after, that's what we all want, so let's see if the committee can actually do that.

In closing, Mr. Speaker, let me just say that we should be under no illusion about what this piece of legislation is or what it does. It's a blank slate, it is a blank slate, it doesn't even include the 48-hour notice provision that the minister talked about yesterday, and it's up to all of us - since we've all signed on to this select committee - to decide what will be written on that blank slate, but we must never forget our objective which is to make sure that all of us, you, Mr. Speaker, me, everybody here, everybody we represent, pays nothing but a fair price and not one-tenth of one cent more.

MR. SPEAKER: The honourable member for Richmond.

MR. MICHEL SAMSON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, for the opportunity to make a number of remarks on Bill No. 79, the Petroleum Products Pricing Act. This province has seen hikes in gas prices over the last number of years, but clearly nothing like what we are seeing currently today. Back in January it was clear that prices were, once again, on the rise and it was at that time that the Premier of the province stated that his government would be looking at taking concrete action to provide relief to Nova Scotians from these high gas prices. Since January, Nova Scotian consumers have waited patiently, or impatiently, for relief from this government that told them what they did not believe - that we were paying a fair price at the pumps and that they would be prepared to take action. So we waited. January, February, March, April, right into May. Then last week, the minister, during his estimates, and here in the House he continued to say, wait for our plan. The Premier said wait for our plan.

So it's with great anticipation that Nova Scotians watched to see what was the Tory plan to bring immediate relief to Nova Scotian consumers on gas prices, to bring immediate relief to Nova Scotia truck drivers who try to make a living and rely on fuel as part of that living. Taxi drivers, couriers, school buses, moms and dads bringing their children to after-school activities, and Nova Scotians trying to get to work. What would be the Tory plan that they've waited three months for? Then, Mr. Speaker, with great disappointment, we see Bill No. 79.

What would Bill No. 79 do to bring immediate relief to Nova Scotian consumers when prices are now 96.9 cents for self-service at the pumps, and I'm told over $1 a litre for self-serve in Cape Breton? Absolutely nothing. Even the member for Colchester-Musquodoboit Valley said that he was disappointed to see that immediate relief would not be coming, and

[Page 3729]

I have no doubt when all Tory members go to their ridings this weekend they will be asked if this is the best you could do. I know the member for Colchester-Musquodoboit Valley, his answer will be no - even I am disappointed in what the government has done. Three months waiting for plan, which is no plan at all.

Mr. Speaker, we listened to the minister indicate that the major plank in this bill was - and it says in the press release - that this petroleum products pricing bill will require 48 hours notice of any increase in price. Once the minister finally tabled the bill in this House and I had the opportunity to go through the bill, I indicated to the minister that the press release is incorrect, because your bill does not require 48 hours notice, your bill requires a notice to be set by regulation. So we're being asked to support a bill, again, that's going to be left to government regulations.

Allow me to state right now, Mr. Speaker, that there is the first fatal flaw in this bill that must be immediately addressed, and I certainly hope that with the support of the NDP caucus we will put that in the Act, not in the regulations as per the minister's own press release to Nova Scotians. I'm sure it certainly would not have been the intent of the minister or his government to mislead Nova Scotians, but clearly if they are serious about this it must be at least placed in the Act.

Mr. Speaker, last night we all watched to see what the reaction was from consumers, what the reaction was from industry. When you hear the comments from Dave Collins - one of the only industry representatives ever willing to talk to the media in good times and bad times - when everyone else refused to speak - he would speak, and I would say that Mr. Collins has been able to educate Nova Scotians more on issues of fuel price than probably any other individual in the last number of years. He has at least given us an idea of what the market forces are, what companies are faced with, and I believe the fact that he is an independent operator gives him that much more credibility with Nova Scotians.

To believe that someone such as Dave Collins who, clearly from his reaction, would have had absolutely no input in this legislation, would not even have been called by this government to see what his suggestions would be, being he has been very clearly someone who is willing to speak out and to be able to try to inform the public on issues dealing with gas prices, and the fact that someone like that wasn't even consulted, or obviously was not even aware of what the government's plans were, I think is just incredible - to believe that the government, since January, would come forward with a plan that they hadn't even discussed, obviously, with industry representatives.

Mr. Speaker, Mr. Collins even raised a legal argument, questioning the legality of the bill and saying that it would violate federal legislation dealing with competition and trying to prevent collusion amongst fuel companies, now that the provincial government wants them to post two days in advance, or we're assuming it's two days - it's not in the bill as I've said,

[Page 3730]

we can only go by the minister's own comments, but requiring them to post two days in advance what the increase will be.

Mr. Speaker, we are then told by the minister that anytime there is going to be an increase, companies will have to contact his department and justify the increase. That sounds like it's a pretty solid system. The media asked the minister, well, what criteria will you be using to determine whether it's justified? We haven't determined that yet, was the answer. Then they were asked, if you do decide that it's not justified, then what action will you take? The answer was, the Act would allow us to explore taking further action down the road. What does that do for Nova Scotia consumers today, May 14, 2004, who are looking for immediate relief? Absolutely nothing, this bill is a tremendous disappointment.

It's ironic, Mr. Speaker, when you look at the Daily News, their editorial cartoon today appears to say everything. It shows: Before Provincial Intervention, it shows gas prices, regular, plus, super. Then it says: After Provincial Intervention, it shows the gas prices with a little sign below it, "Warning! You are about to get . . ." I think those Nova Scotians who get the Daily News can see exactly what it says, but it's not a very flattering statement. It is a word used to describe an unfortunate act that will be done to Nova Scotians which at the end of the day will cost them more money.

Let us go further in the bill. It says that gas stations must post what the increase will be 48 hours before it goes through. Where are they going to post it? Are we going to see the roadside price that says today's price, and the two-days-from-now price? Is that what it is going to be? Do you have to go inside the service station to see where this is posted, because obviously many of the service stations throughout the province now you can pay with your debit or Visa right at the pump, you never have to walk into a service station? Will it be right on the pumps itself? Here's what the price will be two days from now. Where will this be posted? Will it have to be on each and every pump? Because the pumps, you can get gas from either side. Or will it be roadside advertisements that fuel stations, mostly run by independents, will have to put new road signs up to announce what it's going to be in two days.

This is not a solution. It's not even near a solution. I am going to use the same words that were used by the Finance Critic for the NDP, Marilla Stephenson, last night in saying, that this was the least the government could do without doing anything. That sums it all up, and I think the member for Colchester-Musquodoboit Valley himself recognizes that that is the case. Truck drivers in this province are not going to see relief under this government's plan. And now to be told you have to wait for a select committee to report, I believe it has now been moved to August 31^st, instead of August 1^st. So you need to go another three or four months continuing to pay these exorbitant prices for gas, and this government is going to sit and not take concrete action.

[Page 3731]

That is extremely unfortunate, Mr. Speaker. More important, what's more frustrating for our caucus is, had the government said they were going to strike this select committee in January, it would be prepared to report now, and the government could take concrete action now, instead of this government spending three months to come forward and say we should have a select committee that will report in another three or four months. All along, truck drivers pay more, school bus drivers, couriers, taxi companies and Nova Scotia families. They are not going to see any relief from this.

Mr. Speaker, I must say, it was with great disappointment that I listened to the reaction from the Leader of the NDP. It's true that this is an issue that is not going to be solved overnight, it's frustrating, it takes everyone working together. Our role as an Opposition, is to be there to hold the government accountable, and to be there to tell the government when Nova Scotians are clearly telling us it's not good enough, and we expect better. How disappointing when you read in the Daily News today, the headlines, stupid, pointless, illegal. It goes on to talk about the plan, Nova Scotians' reaction was clearly not very favourable, and then to look at the end, where it says NDP Leader, Darrell Dexter, said he liked the legislation. Well, that's extremely unfortunate. It was very frustrating.

During one of the press scrums that I did yesterday with the French media, I was asked, what are you going to do about this bill, because clearly the NDP is supporting the government? It was clear from the Leader's comments that they were going to support the government, they like the legislation. Then we listen to the member for Halifax Fairview, who tore the legislation pretty much apart after his Leader said that he supported it.

[10:45 a.m.]

What we have said, Mr. Speaker, - and let me explain it - I know the member for Halifax Fairview made reference to it, and now let me explain it even better. It is clear that with higher prices through HST revenues, the government brings in more money than what the government anticipated as part of its budgetary process - that is extra revenue not anticipated by the government. He gave the example of the money the government received through rising insurance rates which it clearly hadn't anticipated, or at least no one yet has been able to prove whether they either anticipated it or felt it was going to take place, but that was extra revenue they received there.

What we have said as a Liberal caucus in an effort to try to bring immediate relief to Nova Scotians is to say, as a result of the extra revenue you're getting in HST, it's an opportunity to either freeze or rescind the two cents a litre increase imposed by this Tory Government after they told Nova Scotians in 1999, there would be no increase in taxes under the John Hamm Government; it's simple. I'm sure it's a way the Finance Department can figure how much additional revenue is coming in and use that to suspend the two cents a litre until it balances itself out, that is the way of doing it.

[Page 3732]

When I hear the member for Halifax Fairview say that the Liberal plan would result in a reduction in services, that is completely misleading and incorrect. He himself has admitted that high prices bring in a windfall of revenue to HST that the government had not anticipated. They have thrown around figures as to how much additional revenues this would bring in, which would make it even easier for the government to then say, we can suspend or cancel the two cents a litre increase because of the windfall we are getting through HST, until such time as it balances itself back out, which would give immediate relief to Nova Scotia drivers, which is what they have asked all elected members to do. I think it is a reasonable proposal and it's what we have said.

It saddens me to hear the NDP repeating the government line of what happened in New Brunswick. What happened in New Brunswick was the government withdrew an increase they had on tax and then had nothing to enforce it afterwards. What we have clearly said is that we can either freeze or suspend that two cents a litre increase, and give a role to the URB to ensure that the industry doesn't just swallow it up. There is a way of using a regulatory body already in existence in this province, to force fuel companies to justify the price they are bringing in. I tell you, Mr. Speaker, as a member of this Legislature, I have a great deal more faith in the ability of the URB to hold the fuel company's feet to the fire, than in the minister's office. Clearly the minister's office is not in a position to say whether an increase is justified or not justified, and I don't think any Nova Scotians would expect the minister's office to have that capacity and to be prepared to do that.

There is a way of doing this and we have presented a concrete idea that the government has refused to act upon, because at the end of the day, Mr. Speaker, higher prices mean higher revenues for this government. It means more of an ability to try to balance their budget at the end of the day. When we called upon the Minister of Finance to take action against higher insurance rates, they looked the other way. Why did they look the other way? Higher insurance rates meant higher revenue for the government which gave him more of an opportunity to try to claim he had a balanced budget when we all knew it was not the case. The government looked the other way. What this bill is doing is a way of the government looking the other way by doing absolutely nothing other than saying, we are going to give you two days notice of higher prices coming in, so they can say we at least tried something, but in reality as was said by Marilla Stephenson, as has been said repeatedly by the NDP Finance Critic, nothing concretely has been done to help Nova Scotians.

We are left now with a select committee. A select committee which will be left to try to determine what is the best option for Nova Scotians. It's going to be extremely difficult for this committee. I remember I sat on the Workers' Compensation Review Committee. I remember how challenging that was. Mr. [Deputy] Speaker, you were on that committee also. You remember that committee? It was an extremely difficult committee, very technical pieces of legislation, medical information that was in there, trying to put together formulae that would work, figures being thrown at you at every turn. It was extremely frustrating and it took a great deal of the time of the members of that committee, not only in the travel, the

[Page 3733]

correspondence, and the number of documents presented. I would submit to you that the members of this committee are facing a similar fate. It's going to be extremely difficult.

Mr. Speaker, I've said already to the minister that I look forward to seeing who will be chosen as the chairman of that committee, which will send a clear signal of whether the government is interested in taking action on this, seriously. I could remind you, Mr. Speaker - you'll be well aware - that in 1998, when we were in government, under a minority situation, the chairman of that select committee was the current Minister of Justice, who sat as a member of the Tory caucus, in third place. That is who chaired that committee, just as a reminder to the minister and others who may not have been here during that time. I know the Minister of Education was here, as he smiles now, recalling what the situation was there.

I think Nova Scotians would expect that the same principles that were applied in the decision of who would chair, back in 1998, for that committee, would be applied in this case, also, to make sure that the committee does its job and does report and does bring Nova Scotians solutions.

One of the unfortunate things yesterday was when the minister was asked, will you adopt the recommendations of the select committee and take action on what they have said, will you give us that guarantee, the minister, as expected, did a little song and dance all around it and completely refused to commit that he would adopt the final recommendations of this all-Party committee, which leads Nova Scotians to question if the government is sincere in appointing this committee, or is this a way to try to appease Nova Scotians, which I think they can clearly tell from today's media, and which I believe they'll see in the days and weeks ahead, has been a complete failure on their behalf.

It will not quell the anger in this province, because at the end of the day, Mr. Speaker, we can talk about big oil companies all we want, when you go to the pumps, there's that little sticker there with that little graph, that little pie chart, and that little pie chart there tells you where the price of gas is coming from. We all know where it breaks down.

Mr. Speaker, as an elected member of this Legislature, I cannot change what is done in Ottawa, but we can certainly work towards addressing what is done by this province and by this government. This government campaigned on no increase in taxes and turned around in 2002 and put a two cent a litre increase - it came out of the pockets of Nova Scotians. Now, as I've said before, two cents a litre doesn't sound like much, it really doesn't. What's two cents a litre? But when we looked at the budget books, when they came in in 2003, how much revenue did that two centres a litre - it's only two cents - how much did it bring in? It was $25 million out of the pockets of Nova Scotians - $25 million for a government that said it would not increase taxes.

So does the government say, well that $25 million has brought us where we need to be, we never intended to have that tax remain permanently, now we're going to remove it?

[Page 3734]

Not at all, Mr. Speaker. Let's go one more year, 2003-04, if I'm not mistaken, the Minister of Finance can correct me, I believe the figure is $22 or $23 million that was brought in by that two cent a litre increase - almost $50 million has left the pockets of Nova Scotians in the last two years because of that increase. And when I hear the Leader of the Official Opposition, who campaigned on a better deal for Nova Scotian families, say that Bill No. 79 is good legislation, I find it extremely disappointing.

Not only did they shock Nova Scotians in propping up this government on their budget but now to turn around and say - a Party that claims they want to put money back in the pockets of Nova Scotians - that they like Bill No. 79, when the Finance Critic for their Party has clearly said this will do nothing in the immediate or short term to help Nova Scotian families. It leaves Nova Scotians to wonder truly where the NDP is really going on this. As I've said before, for the member for Halifax Fairview to suggest that our proposal would result in a reduction in services is misleading and completely incorrect. It shows again the inability of the NDP to look outside the box and to try to come up with new proposals.

Is our idea the solution? Maybe it isn't. Maybe it isn't. Time will tell, but I can at least stand and tell Nova Scotians that our caucus is responsible enough to at least put forward a proposal. The NDP have not done one and the government clearly, who have all of the resources for the last three months to bring forward relief, have failed to do so. They know themselves it is a farce to suggest giving two days notice is going to bring relief to Nova Scotia drivers. They realize that. (Interruption)

Well, one of the NDP members says it's better than nothing. As Marilla Stephenson said, it's the least the government could do without doing anything. So if that is what we, as legislators and as Opposition members, are prepared to say to a government, I think we have failed. Nova Scotians sent us here in a minority situation saying, we want a strong Opposition that will hold the government's feet to the fire, that will tell the government when it's not good enough and that we expect more and we are going to do everything in our power to make that happen. Then to hear the Official Opposition say, it's better than nothing. It has come down to better than nothing, whether it be the budget, gas prices, more to come. Better than nothing.

Mr. Speaker, we have put forward a proposal. (Interruptions) If the member for Dartmouth North has a plan, let him present it. Let him stand on his feet and let him present it.

MR. JERRY PYE: That's why you're the Third Party.

MR. MICHEL SAMSON: Well, Mr. Speaker, I