MR. SPEAKER: Order, please. The subject for this evening's late debate was submitted by the honourable Leader of the Liberal Party:
Therefore be it resolved that this government put a human face on the social and health issues such as Home Care in Nova Scotia.
That subject will be debated this evening at 6:00 p.m.
We will begin the daily routine.
PRESENTING AND READING PETITIONS
PRESENTING REPORTS OF COMMITTEES
TABLING REPORTS, REGULATIONS AND OTHER PAPERS
MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Minister of Justice.
HON. MICHAEL BAKER: Mr. Speaker, I beg leave to table a report prepared by Grant Thornton on behalf of the Province of Nova Scotia with respect to the Eskasoni Gaming Commission.
MR. SPEAKER: The report is tabled.
The honourable Minister of Finance.
HON. NEIL LEBLANC: Mr. Speaker, I beg leave to table the recently completed Vital Statistics Annual Report for 1997, published by the Department of Business and Consumer Services. The annual report is also available on the website.
MR. SPEAKER: The report is tabled.
STATEMENTS BY MINISTERS
MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Minister of Justice.
HON. MICHAEL BAKER: Mr. Speaker, I would like to share information with the House today about an important accountability issue. Recently, our government retained the firm of Grant Thornton to conduct a review of the sources and use of gaming revenues received by the Eskasoni Gaming Commission. In addition, the firm also conducted a review of the internal controls related to the gaming operation.
Information had been brought to our attention that called for prompt action on the part of the Province of Nova Scotia. The information was unverified. It claimed that VLT profits at Eskasoni were being used for purposes that clearly were not intended under our Gaming Agreement with the band. Yesterday my officials met with representatives of the Eskasoni Gaming Commission. They talked about the necessary changes that we believe will protect the community's right to access these funds. This was a very positive meeting, Mr. Speaker. We will continue to work closely with the community.
The review shows that the funds totalling $466,000 were used to pay wages of band councillors and to make vehicle payments on behalf of the band chief. This represents 60 per cent of the funds made available through the VLTs. We believe this goes against the spirit of our agreement. We have indicated that proceeds from VLT sales on reserves should be used for the benefit of the entire community. The social and economic situation in First Nations communities across Canada highlights the need for revenues to be used for the benefit of all. We support that entirely. We intend to do our part to ensure that revenues are used for the proper purposes.
Mr. Speaker, we have indicated to Eskasoni that gaming revenues shall not replace funds for band administration. The band receives its administration funding from the federal government. It is also required to report directly to the federal Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development on questions of administration funding.
To support the community's demand for stronger accountability, we have brought forward a number of recommendations. We believe these recommendations will address the accountability issues that have been raised, and I believe it is what the residents of Eskasoni are entitled to. I have indicated to the band that we would like a new gaming agreement by April 20th. That gives us two weeks. If we can't resolve issues by then, I will have no choice but to direct that the 64 VLT machines at Eskasoni be disconnected. I want to stress, I am hoping that this will not occur. We are totally behind the community in its demand for openness, for transparency and for accountability among its elected members and I would be remiss if I didn't acknowledge today the full cooperation we have received from the Eskasoni Gaming Commission so that we could complete the review.
Mr. Speaker, I have tabled earlier today, sections of the financial review completed by Grant Thornton. The report outlines the parameters of the review but will exclude the appendices and other references such as bank transaction account numbers that contain private information. Thank you.
MR. SPEAKER: The honourable member for Lunenburg West.
MR. DONALD DOWNE: Mr. Speaker, I want to acknowledge the minister's comments. First I want to thank him for providing us with the statement earlier today, I appreciate that very much. I believe the minister is in charge of this file and doing the right thing here, with regard to working with Eskasoni.
The timeline of April 20th is tight, but then again, they have known about this issue for some time. This is not a surprise to Eskasoni and certainly, not a surprise to the minister, that there are some concerns there, so the whole issue of accountability is very important, especially when it comes to revenues that are coming from VLTs. Originally, that was brought in to be an economic opportunity and those monies were to be there to derive economic self-reliance in the future.
So, I appreciate the minister's comments and I look forward to the report and hopefully trust that they will find a cooperative solution, working in cooperation with each other. Thank you.
MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Leader of the New Democratic Party.
MR. ROBERT CHISHOLM: Mr. Speaker, the problem that the minister and his department have attempted to address is a serious one, without any question. I would make this suggestion, though, that instead of the threat that they will take the 64 VLT machines out, which is contrary to an agreement reached over a long period of time, that maybe what he should suggest that if an agreement isn't reached, that the funds will be put in trust until a new agreement is reached. It is an issue that is unquestionably serious, to recognize it took a long time to get these agreements and get them put in place.
I think what we want to try to avoid is shifting back into a paternalistic, externally-driven agenda where again, the government is trying to impose something on the community, where what we really need to do is ensure that there is a longer-term solution and that longer-term solution is in the hands of the Aboriginal community. I am concerned with the third from the last paragraph of the minister's statement which says that, we will have an agreement in two weeks, or else. I know that the minister wants to try to communicate they are going to be tough on this and I think they can do that and at the same time be respectful, by ensuring that there is real cooperation and negotiations.
A solution needs to be found and it will undoubtedly take some time. I think the government has gone down the right road in terms of trying to find what it is that happened, as a result of this agreement and how these funds are being expended. The problem exists, it needs to be corrected, and I would hope the government works in a cooperative and most importantly, a respectful way with the Aboriginal community, to see that the right thing is done. Thank you.
GOVERNMENT NOTICES OF MOTION
MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Minister of Finance.
HON. NEIL LEBLANC: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall:
(1) read and table the message from His Honour the Lieutenant Governor transmitting the Estimates of the Sums required for the service of the province for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2001, for the consideration of the House;
(2) table the Estimate Books;
(3) table the Crown Corporation business plans;
(4) table the Estimate and Crown Corporation business plans resolutions;
(5) deliver my Budget Speech; and
(6) move that the Estimates of Sums required for the service of the province, for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2001, being Supply to be granted to Her Majesty, and the Crown Corporation business plans be referred to the Committee of the Whole House on Supply.
Mr. Speaker, the budget will be tabled on Tuesday, April 11, 2000.
[12:15 p.m.]
MR. SPEAKER: The notice is tabled.
The honourable Minister of Tourism and Culture.
HON. RODNEY MACDONALD: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:
Whereas the culture of Nova Scotia is an essential expression of the identity of the people of the province; and
Whereas since 1989 the Province of Nova Scotia has recognized crafts through the celebration of a craft theme year; and
Whereas quilting has continued to be a significant component of our culture;
Therefore be it resolved that the members of the House join with me in recognizing the year 2000 as the Year of the Quilt in Nova Scotia.
Mr. Speaker, I request waiver of notice.
MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.
Is it agreed?
It is agreed.
Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
The honourable Minister of Education.
HON. JANE PURVES: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:
Whereas four DalTech mechanical engineering students - Scott Landry, Gordon Ross, Alex Ferguson and Ian Auchinleck - recently won the $2,500 first prize in the National Engineering Competition for a system called SafeNAP; and
Whereas the project they designed monitors a baby in its crib for apnoea, or cessation of breathing; and
Whereas the system is socially beneficial and has been noted by judges and faculty for its marketability;
Therefore be it resolved that the members of the Legislature congratulate the quartet of DalTech students for their award, their technical and entrepreneurial skills, and for developing a system that may help save lives.
Mr. Speaker, I request waiver.
MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.
Is it agreed?
It is agreed.
Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
The honourable Minister of Tourism and Culture.
HON. RODNEY MACDONALD: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:
Whereas the tourism sector in Atlantic Canada sets the standard for interprovincial cooperation that is the best in Canada; and
Whereas as an example of that cooperation, 21 Nova Scotia industry partners joined with their Atlantic Canada colleagues on a recent tourism trade mission to five key U.S. markets; and
Whereas by participating in this integral initiative, Nova Scotia had the opportunity to reach important travel trade contacts and leverage the profile that a promotion of this magnitude generates;
Therefore be it resolved that the House of Assembly acknowledge this partnership which is enabling all Atlantic Provinces to work together to increase tourism business.
Mr. Speaker, I request waiver of notice.
MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.
Is it agreed?
It is agreed.
Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
The honourable Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.
HON. ERNEST FAGE: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:
Whereas I met with the federal Fisheries and Oceans Minister, Herb Daliwal, on March 25, 2000, to discuss efforts to integrate the native fishery and the commercial fishery; and
Whereas the fishing industry directly contributes over $1 billion in export business alone for Nova Scotia and is the largest in Canada; and
Whereas peace, safety and a properly managed commercial fishery is needed for this continued success;
Therefore be it resolved that the members of this House unanimously support the efforts of all groups in finding an acceptable resolution to the fishing season.
Mr. Speaker, I request waiver of notice.
MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.
Is it agreed?
It is agreed.
Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
The honourable Leader of the Liberal Party.
MR. RUSSELL MACLELLAN: Mr. Speaker, I would just like to take this opportunity to say that on April 4th there was a by-election in Cape Breton East, one that was very seriously, and I think forthrightly, contested by all three Parties. I am sure that all members of the House would want to join me in congratulating the victor in this by-election. I would like to take this opportunity to introduce in your gallery, Mr. Speaker, Mr. David Wilson, the Liberal candidate who was victorious. (Applause)
INTRODUCTION OF BILLS
NOTICES OF MOTION
MR. SPEAKER: The honourable member for Cape Breton Nova.
MR. PAUL MACEWAN: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:
Whereas the NDP line is that there is no difference between the Liberals and the Tories; and
Whereas the Russell MacLellan Liberal Government was the most compassionate government in the history of Nova Scotia; and
Whereas with every passing day the people are seeing how vast the difference is between the Russell MacLellan Liberals and the right-wing Donald Cameron Government of John Hamm now in office, thanks to the perfidy of the NDP;
Therefore be it resolved that as Nova Scotians contemplate how terrible this present government is, they should consider the role the NDP played in bringing it to power, and how the Tories would never be in power today were it not for the NDP.
MR. SPEAKER: The notice is tabled.
The honourable member for Sackville-Cobequid.
MR. JOHN HOLM: Mr. Speaker, I can't top that, but it is good to have some levity, once in a while, in this House.
Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:
Whereas every day in the Province of Nova Scotia six more children are born into poverty; and
Whereas since August 17th, this Tory Government's first full day in office, 1,398 children have been born into poverty; and
Whereas this heartless Tory Government would prefer to talk about only one kind of deficit, a budget deficit;
Therefore be it resolved that this Tory Government start waking up to the health, education and social deficits faced by the 1,398 children born into poverty under this Tory Regime.
Mr. Speaker, I request waiver of notice.
MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.
Is it agreed?
I hear a No.
The notice is tabled.
The honourable member for Preston.
MR. DAVID HENDSBEE: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:
Whereas the people of Cape Breton East, especially all volunteers and candidates associated with election campaigns, should be congratulated for having just persevered through their third of three election campaigns in as many years; and
Whereas while the voters spoke in favour of the former candidate in Tuesday's election, the Progressive Conservative candidate, Brad Kerr, was able, at the same time, to increase his total vote by 158 per cent over last year's tally; and
Whereas while our Party was looking forward to having, in this House, a representative from industrial Cape Breton through Mr. Kerr, we are extremely proud of his efforts and those of his campaign team;
Therefore be it resolved that all members of this House congratulate Mr. Kerr, as well as Mr. Saccary and Mr. Wilson, and thank the good people of Cape Breton East for their patience with the democratic process.
Mr. Speaker, I request waiver of notice.
MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.
Is it agreed?
It is agreed.
Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
The honourable member for Lunenburg West.
MR. DONALD DOWNE: Mr. Speaker, I just want to say that 17 per cent is probably a lot higher than they are going to be after the next budget.
AN HON. MEMBER: You have been there. (Interruptions)
MR. DOWNE: Never been at 17 per cent. (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: The honourable member for Lunenburg West.
MR. DONALD DOWNE: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:
Whereas the Premier said that he was committed to 4-H but said he could not reveal funding levels because of the budget; and
Whereas the Education Minister revealed that her budget would stay the same; and
Whereas the Agriculture Minister released that his budget would include user fees.
Therefore be it resolved that the Premier commit to the same funding levels for 4-H this year so that the youth in rural communities can be assured that the 4-H programs will continue.
Mr. Speaker, I request waiver.
MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.
Is it agreed?
I hear several Noes.
The notice is tabled.
The honourable member for Halifax Fairview.
MS. EILEEN O'CONNELL: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:
Whereas the collapse of the Career Academy of Aviation in August 1998, left more than 100 students in the educational and financial lurch; and
Whereas the Nova Scotia Community College stepped in with a two year commercial pilot training program; and
Whereas the first class has successfully completed its program;
Therefore be it resolved that this House commend Colin Lewin, Chris Young, Nick Granter and the other 45 students in the commercial pilot program of the Nova Scotia Community College who have, against enormous odds, successfully completed their program.
Mr. Speaker, I would ask for waiver.
MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.
Is it agreed?
It is agreed.
Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
The honourable Minister of Economic Development.
HON. GORDON BALSER: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:
Whereas breast cancer affects the lives of thousands of Nova Scotian women and their families; and
Whereas Emmie Luther-Hiltz, a breast cancer survivor, has been recognized as a champion for the issue of breast cancer awareness; and
Whereas the May 2000 issue of Chatelaine features the personal story of Emmie Luther-Hiltz and her sister Gwen Luther-Lashley in the article, "Can This Drug Prevent Breast Cancer?";
Therefore be it resolved that the members of this House join me in publicly acknowledging the selfless efforts of Emmie and the hundreds like her who volunteer their time in the fight against cancer.
Mr. Speaker, I would ask for waiver.
MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.
Is it agreed?
It is agreed.
Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
The honourable Leader of the Liberal Party.
RESOLUTION NO. 1097
MR. RUSSELL MACLELLAN: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:
Whereas the Sydney Mines Volunteer Fire Department is one of the top volunteer fire departments in the province, if not the whole region; and
Whereas recently the fire department made a new addition to their rescue capabilities when they took delivery of a new amphibian watercraft built in Tantallon, Nova Scotia; and
Whereas this new watercraft will allow the fire department to better carry out their duties to protect the people they serve;
Therefore be it resolved that the members of this House commend all associated with the Sydney Mines Volunteer Fire Department as they continue to demonstrate their strong commitment to safety and protection in their community.
Mr. Speaker, I would ask for waiver.
MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.
Is it agreed?
It is agreed.
Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
The honourable member for Cape Breton Centre.
MR. FRANK CORBETT: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:
Whereas the Minister responsible for Sysco was warned in advance by his expert advisors that the government's December 31st deadline for the sale of Sysco made it impossible to get the best deal for Nova Scotians; and
Whereas the Premier and minister ignored the advice and made the false announcement that "Sysco is Sold" on December 31st; and
Whereas the minister's explanation is that "Everyone views hindsight with 20-20 vision";
Therefore be it resolved that this House urge the minister to start using some foresight instead of relying on his Tory 20/20 hindsight to map a direction for the Nova Scotia economy.
Mr. Speaker, I would ask for waiver.
MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.
Is it agreed?
I hear several Noes.
The notice is tabled.
The honourable member for Dartmouth South.
MR. TIMOTHY OLIVE: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:
Whereas home invasions represent a cowardly, criminal act committed against some of our most vulnerable citizens; and
Whereas Nova Scotia's Justice Minister has acted decisively by providing strict sentencing guidelines for this crime to the Public Prosecution Service; and
Whereas that same minister has also urged his federal counterpart, the Honourable Anne McLellan to do her part to crack down on this form of crime;
Therefore be it resolved that all members of this House support this province's call for the federal government to amend the Criminal Code to include home invasions as a separate criminal offence.
Mr. Speaker, I would ask for waiver and passage without debate.
MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.
Is it agreed?
I hear several Noes.
The notice is tabled.
The honourable member for Victoria.
MR. KENNETH MACASKILL: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:
Whereas Ski Cape Smokey is outraged that the Tory Government came through with only half of the money needed and the message that there would be no more to come; and
Whereas without the provincial government's full support, the hill is unable to get federal money for equipment such as snow making machines; and
Whereas its economic impact is estimated to be $1 million in terms of wages generated and spin-off business to accommodations and restaurants in the local area;
Therefore be it resolved that this Tory Government make a commitment to Cape Smokey and the residents of Ingonish to support and fund the ski hill which will allow them to lever federal funds to upgrade their facility.
Mr. Speaker, I would ask for waiver.
MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.
Is it agreed?
I hear several Noes.
The notice is tabled.
The honourable member for Cole Harbour-Eastern Passage.
[12:30 p.m.]
MR. KEVIN DEVEAUX: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:
Whereas the Halifax Regional School Board has been saddled with a two-tiered funding arrangement between the former cities and the former county because of the current Education Act; and
Whereas the Halifax Regional School Board has been working hard to rectify the problem by finding an equitable resolution that ensures all students receive a similar amount of funding; and
Whereas two staff from the Halifax Regional School Board have worked very hard to convince the Halifax Regional Council of the need for an equitable funding solution;
Therefore be it resolved that this House recognize Anna-Marie Sarto and Mike Brownlow for their efforts on behalf of the children of the Halifax Regional Municipality and for their hard work on behalf of the Halifax Regional School Board.
Mr. Speaker, I request waiver.
MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.
Is it agreed?
It is agreed.
Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
The honourable member for Colchester North.
MR. WILLIAM LANGILLE: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:
Whereas this government recognizes the importance of the harness racing industry to the economies of rural Nova Scotia and industrial Cape Breton; and
Whereas the owner of Tartan Downs in Sydney, Jack MacNeil, praised the government's decision to provide transitional support, stating, "It's good to see the government had the insight to see the value of harness racing to rural communities;" and
Whereas none other than a former member for Colchester North and Cabinet Minister of the MacLellan Liberal Government, Ed Lorraine, congratulated and thanked me for this government's support of harness racing;
Therefore be it resolved that this House thank the current Minister of Agriculture and Marketing for providing support to the hundreds of jobs and spin-off benefits associated with this important industry in rural Nova Scotia and industrial Cape Breton.
Mr. Speaker, I request waiver.
MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.
Is it agreed?
I hear several Noes.
The notice is tabled.
The honourable member for Cape Breton The Lakes.
MR. BRIAN BOUDREAU: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:
Whereas on April 2nd, Millville native Jo-Anne MacLean won three medals at this year's Canadian short-track speed skating championship in Saskatoon; and
Whereas this 19 year old freshman at the University of Calgary won silver in the 500 metre, bronze in the 1,500 metre and bronze in the 3,000 metre; and
Whereas a week earlier in Regina, Ms. MacLean won bronze in the 500 metre final of the North American short-track speed skating championship;
Therefore be it resolved that the members of this House extend their sincere congratulations to Jo-Anne MacLean on her outstanding performance at this year's Canadian short-track speed skating championship.
Mr. Speaker, I request waiver.
MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.
Is it agreed?
It is agreed.
Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
The honourable member for Timberlea-Prospect.
MR. WILLIAM ESTABROOKS: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:
Whereas Highway No. 101 continues to prove that it is unsafe; and
Whereas Highway No. 101 desperately needs to be twinned now before any more people are injured or die; and
Whereas twinning Highway No. 101 was a promise made by the Minister of Transportation to his constituents during the past election;
Therefore be it resolved that this Tory Government immediately begin the twinning of Highway No. 101 so that future disasters can be prevented.
Mr. Speaker, I ask for waiver.
MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.
Is it agreed?
I hear several Noes.
The notice is tabled.
The honourable member for Yarmouth.
MR. RICHARD HURLBURT: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:
Whereas the Yarmouth Rotary Club is strong and vibrant and recognizes the importance of community involvement; and
Whereas the Yarmouth Rotary Club is presently working hard on raising the final $20,000 of the $50,000 commitment by them as part of the Yarmouth Regional Hospital expansion fund; and
Whereas Yarmouth Rotarians work on a number of special projects in any given year to assist with such things as medical equipment and care;
Therefore be it resolved that members of this House of Assembly commend Yarmouth Rotary Club President Anne Marie LeBlanc and her fellow Rotarians for their dedicated volunteer work.
Mr. Speaker, I request waiver.
MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.
Is it agreed?
It is agreed.
Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
The honourable member for Richmond.
MR. MICHEL SAMSON: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:
Whereas Strait area radio station 1410 CIGO began broadcasting in 1975, quickly becoming a leader in the social and economic development of the Strait area; and
Whereas on Monday, April 3, 2000, CIGO ceased to exist and has been replaced with FM 101.5 The Hawk; and
Whereas to mark the transition, recorded messages from station founder Gerry Doucette and original Station Manager Sandy Hoyt were played as the Strait area entered the new millennium with a new standard of broadcast quality;
Therefore be it resolved that the members of this House congratulate Bob and Brenda MacEachern on their transition to FM 101.5 The Hawk and all those who played a role in making the Strait area's own radio a success in both the past and those who will make it a success in the future.
Mr. Speaker, I request waiver of notice.
MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.
Is it agreed?
It is agreed.
Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
The honourable member for Halifax Chebucto.
MR. HOWARD EPSTEIN: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:
Whereas domestic violence is an issue where the victim feels violated, intimidated and vulnerable in regard to their attacker; and
Whereas the Department of Justice has chosen to include this type of crime in its Restorative Justice Program; and
Whereas the last thing a victim of domestic abuse wants to do is to have to go through a restorative justice counselling session with her abuser;
Therefore be it resolved that the Minister of Justice act immediately to remove domestic violence from the Restorative Justice Program.
Mr. Speaker, I see waiver of notice.
MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.
Is it agreed?
I hear a No.
The notice is tabled.
The honourable member for Guysborough-Port Hawkesbury.
MR. RONALD CHISHOLM: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:
Whereas it has been an extremely slow methodical process in an attempt to have additional post office boxes installed at the Port Hawkesbury Post Office; and
Whereas after a number of years of being forced to deal with government bureaucracy and red tape, Canada Post has finally agreed to the installation of 1,200 new mailboxes at the Port Hawkesbury Post Office; and
Whereas the new mailboxes are being installed in conjunction with the beginning of civic addressing and a division of postal codes for the town through Canada Post;
Therefore be it resolved that the members of this Legislature congratulate Port Hawkesbury and area citizens for their perseverance and thank Canada Post for seeing that Port Hawkesbury's needs were finally met.
Mr. Speaker, I request waiver of notice.
MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.
Is it agreed?
It is agreed.
Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
The honourable member for Cape Breton West.
MR. RUSSELL MACKINNON: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:
Whereas the Government House Leader admitted yesterday that he was having difficulty accomplishing the government's agenda despite their pronounced majority in the House; and
Whereas this is not surprising given the Government House Leader's previous tenure and loyalty to the Buchanan Regime; and
Whereas neo-Conservative sentiments, such as those embraced by the Buchananites, have gone the way of the dinosaurs;
Therefore be it resolved that the Minister of Transportation and Public Works be made aware that a fossil is still, really, a fossil.
Mr. Speaker, I would ask for waiver of notice.
MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.
Is it agreed?
I hear a No.
The notice is tabled.
The honourable member for Hants East.
MR. JOHN MACDONELL: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:
Whereas the Premier revealed yesterday that he actively promoted a resolution of the harness racing industry's concerns in collaboration with his long-time friend and political manager, Cyril Reddy of the Truro Raceway; and
Whereas the Premier also declared yesterday that he will not keep his own commitment to protect public services if government employees do not cooperate with his political agenda; and
Whereas the Premier also suggested that Nova Scotians should have been able to extrapolate from his campaign promises the kind of decisions he is now making;
Therefore be it resolved that this House urge the Premier to help Nova Scotians extrapolate the pattern of favouritism, cronyism and private interest that has become apparent from his incompetent decisions.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please. I would like to take a look at that resolution please.
The honourable member for Colchester-Musquodoboit Valley.
MR. BROOKE TAYLOR: Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the honourable member for Cumberland South, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:
Whereas April Strong of Parrsboro has been nominated as Parrsboro's Youth Volunteer of the Year; and
Whereas April will be recognized for her efforts as being President of the Parrsboro Youth Town Council, editor of the school year book, President of the Student Police; along with many other community related commitments; and
Whereas April Strong will be recognized for her efforts at the upcoming Volunteer Appreciation Ceremony to be held in Parrsboro on April 19th, which I believe is on a Wednesday, Mr. Speaker;
Therefore be it resolved that all members of this Legislature congratulate April Strong on this very important recognition and wish her all the best in the future.
Mr. Speaker, I request waiver of notice.
MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.
Is it agreed?
It is agreed.
Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
The honourable member for Cape Breton Nova.
MR. PAUL MACEWAN: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:
Whereas each day brings new revelations as to how the Tories have gambled with Sydney Steel and put its future at great risk through Hamm-handed bungling; and
Whereas were it not for the treachery of the NDP, the Tories would still be a third-place rump in this House and Sydney Steel would be under the responsible stewardship of the Government of Premier Russell MacLellan, which would still be in office; and
Whereas the latest news that ABN Amro had cautioned against the brinkmanship these Tories pursued on imposing artificial sales deadlines on Sysco is but one more example of what the NDP, through their irresponsibility, have brought upon us;
Therefore be it resolved that this House note that had the NDP only acted more responsibly in the period 1998-99, the government now destroying Sysco would never be in power.
MR. SPEAKER: The notice is tabled.
The honourable member for Dartmouth North.
MR. JERRY PYE: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:
Whereas homelessness and substandard housing have reached a crisis in Canada; and
Whereas Nova Scotia has its share of homeless persons - and families living in sub-standard housing; and
Whereas Canada and Nova Scotia are rich in natural resources that can provide affordable housing to all;
Therefore be it resolved that this province call upon the federal government and other provinces to adopt a national housing strategy and housing supply program that recognizes housing as a human right.
Mr. Speaker, I request waiver of notice.
MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.
Is it agreed?
It is agreed.
Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
The honourable member for Dartmouth East.
DR. JAMES SMITH: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:
Whereas Nicole Methvan and Clare Biddulph, two Saint Mary's University MBA students, have won a national business plan competition with their plan DementiaGuide.com; and
Whereas DementiaGuide is an Internet-based disease management tool for patients, doctors and caregivers of people with Alzheimer's disease; and
Whereas this new interactive program is based on the work of Halifax native Dr. Kenneth Rockwood, a leader in Alzheimer's research;
Therefore be it resolved that the members of this House extend their sincere congratulations to Nicole Methvan and Clare Biddulph for their national award-winning business plan.
Mr. Speaker, I request waiver of notice.
MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.
Is it agreed?
It is agreed.
Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
The honourable member for Halifax Fairview.
MS. EILEEN O'CONNELL: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:
Whereas the Special People Drama Club of Antigonish is composed of adults who have mental and physical challenges; and
Whereas on Sunday, April 2nd, the Special People Drama Club performed its play, A Matter of Perception, at Bauer Theatre; and
Whereas the previous week they received a citation at the town's one-act play festival;
Therefore be it resolved that this House congratulate the Special People Drama Club and Director, Pauline Liengme, on its second successful production.
Mr. Speaker, I request waiver of notice.
MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.
Is it agreed?
It is agreed.
Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
The honourable member for Cape Breton The Lakes.
MR. BRIAN BOUDREAU: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:
Whereas during the election this Tory Government promised to address the condition of secondary and rural roads across the province; and
Whereas some potholes along the Little Pond Road are reported to be half-a-foot deep, causing motorists to drive on the opposite side of the road; and
Whereas there is a great deal of traffic on this rural road, from heavy trucks to buses carrying elementary, junior high, and high school students;
Therefore be it resolved that the Tory Government fulfil its promise to fix roads and introduce a highway program that will look after deteriorated roads in rural areas across this province.
[12:45 p.m.]
Mr. Speaker, I request waiver of notice.
MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.
Is it agreed?
I hear several Noes.
The notice is tabled.
The honourable member for Timberlea-Prospect.
MR. WILLIAM ESTABROOKS: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:
Whereas many businesses on the Prospect Road give of themselves in their services so freely to make our communities better places to live and bring up our families; and
Whereas the Holt family has served these communities for many years through their tireless example of involvement; and
Whereas Holt's Take-Out, in cooperation with the Royal Canadian Legion in White's Lake, provided a wonderful turkey dinner to over 200 seniors recently;
Therefore be it resolved that this House offer its thanks and congratulations to the Holt family for their continuing commitment to the residents of the Prospect Road.
Mr. Speaker, I ask for waiver.
MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.
Is it agreed?
It is agreed.
Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
ORDERS OF THE DAY
ORAL QUESTIONS PUT BY MEMBERS
MR. SPEAKER: Question Period will begin at 12:46 p.m. and end at 1:46 p.m.
The honourable member for Dartmouth East.
DR. JAMES SMITH: Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Health. Today the Minister of Health announced that the report, The Transitions on Care, had identified that 1 out of 4 people in acute care should be moved to long-term or home care. The minister also went on to say that the long-term care beds are up to 99 per cent full. My question to the minister is, what are the minister's plans to free up long-term care beds and establish a system of home care in Nova Scotia?
HON. JAMES MUIR: Mr. Speaker, there are a number of initiatives that the government is currently undertaking. Probably the most important of them right now is the move toward single entry access.
DR. SMITH: I compliment the minister for carrying on an initiative that the previous government had started and I wish him well.
Mr. Speaker, our Party had introduced a detailed and a costed plan for taking the strain off acute care by opening new long-term beds and moving people into home care when the circumstances were appropriate. My question to the minister is, how can the minister ever hope to implement a plan for long-term care when he has already stated today, here in the Red Room, that there will be no new money for health care? How can the minister implement that plan for a continuum of care and long-term care?
MR. MUIR: Mr. Speaker, we have a number of initiatives going on. One of the more important ones is the move toward single entry access and I will give the previous government credit for thinking about that but we are the ones putting it into action. The whole system works together. It is like a jigsaw puzzle and all the pieces have to flow together. (Interruption) I didn't hear what she said. (Interruptions) Mr. Speaker, would you tell these rascals to be quiet while I answer the question?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: The rascals. (Interruptions)
MR. MUIR: I apologize, Mr. Speaker. There are a number of initiatives ongoing, Mr. Speaker, and as the honourable member knows, he was in the press conference this morning, we said that we haven't got all of the pieces together yet. We are in transition to moving towards that and obviously there will have to be some reallocation of funds . . .
MR. SPEAKER: Thank you. Order, please. The honourable member for Dartmouth East on your final supplementary.
DR. SMITH: Mr. Speaker, maybe the minister can make light of all of this but I think this is a very serious matter and Nova Scotians are looking for serious answers. The difference is, the Liberals identify problems and we found solutions. (Interruptions) That honourable minister, he has identified problems and he rambles on about single entry and that sort of thing, reallocation of funds, cutting out fat in administration . . .
MR. SPEAKER: Question, please. Question.
DR. SMITH: Will the minister explain to the people of Nova Scotia how he plans to build a continuum of care and find transition monies, monies that are going to cost extra in moving to that continuum of care, how will the minister identify the reallocation, as he said today, of new monies, of monies within the system to build that continuum of care when there is no . . .
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please.
MR. MUIR: Mr. Speaker, some of these answers will become apparent in the budget.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please. If there is agreement, just to keep everything in order with the House, I said I would rule on a resolution that they need for the minutes and I will add another minute on to the Question Period if it is okay. The notice of motion that was moved by the honourable member for Hants East, I am ruling out of order. I feel that it indicates personal gain by the member. Again, Question Period will end at 1:47 p.m.
The honourable Leader of the New Democratic Party.
MR. ROBERT CHISHOLM: Mr. Speaker, through you to the Premier, the Premier's conflict of interest guidelines start off with the following phrase: "The public is entitled to expect Ministers of the Crown to act in a way that ensures that the public interest is always paramount." Yesterday the Premier admitted outside this House that on behalf of his campaign manager, the Premier personally intervened to help broker a resolution of concerns about Atlantic Loto's withdrawal from harness racing. I want to ask the Premier to explain
why he acted on the basis of this private-partisan interest instead of ensuring that the public interest was paramount?
HON. JOHN HAMM (The Premier): Mr. Speaker, I am delighted that the member opposite asked the question because it gives me an opportunity to say, first of all, the decision of the amount of funding that would be put in to sustain the harness racing industry as it is weaned from government support was made before I had any conversations with the gentleman to which he referred. I delivered the amount and indicated to that gentleman he should continue negotiations with the Minister of Agriculture. I am delighted to have the opportunity to clarify the misconception the member opposite has.
MR. ROBERT CHISHOLM: Mr. Speaker, again to the Premier, point two of the ministerial code of conduct says: "Ministers must make every effort to ensure that their departments are not used for partisan political purposes." I want to ask the Premier, will he tell this House why he contravened that section of his own code of conduct by acting in concert with his own campaign manager to send the signal that the only way to get money from this government is through Hamm Tories like Cyril Reddy?
THE PREMIER: Mr. Speaker, I would ask the Minister of Agriculture to respond, to tell us how the decision as to the amount of funding was made.
HON. ERNEST FAGE: Mr. Speaker, I think it is very important that we clear up some facts on the matter. First of all, the amount of funding was based on last year's contribution from the Department of Agriculture to the harness racing industry. Last year's funding, if the members opposite care to check, will show that approximately a little over $1 million was invested in the harness racing industry. That was what the amount was based on, on no other figure; $3 million was invested totally through Atlantic Loto and the Department of Agriculture by the Province of Nova Scotia. We have allowed $1 million to proceed on this issue and that is how the amount was determined.
MR. ROBERT CHISHOLM: The issue here, Mr. Speaker, is that this Premier cut a deal with his campaign manager. That is the issue here. The Premier knows . . .
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please. The honourable member, I feel, is making an accusation by saying he cut a deal. (Interruptions)
Order, please. I feel the honourable member is suggesting that a deal was cut and if you have documentation or something to prove that, fine, but if not, I would ask the honourable member to withdraw that, please. To say that an honourable member cut a deal, I do not think is right.
MR. ROBERT CHISHOLM: Mr. Speaker, I am operating on the basis of information that the Premier supplied to the media outside this House yesterday, that he intervened personally with Mr. Reddy in order to see that this money went into the harness racing business.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please. The honourable member suggested a deal was cut. It makes it sound like it is something underhanded. I would ask the honourable member to rephrase that, please.
MR. ROBERT CHISHOLM: Mr. Speaker, I am raising some concerns that something wrong was conducted here. That is exactly my point. That is why I am going through the issue of the Premier's own code of conduct rules and if you would allow me, I will pursue this further . . .
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please. I will allow the member that if he will withdraw the words "cutting a deal" and rephrase that please.
MR. ROBERT CHISHOLM: Intervene on behalf of, negotiated personally on a matter that he should not have. I retract the other words and put those ones in if you like, Mr. Speaker.
My final supplementary is to the Premier. The Premier knows that under his code of conduct, no ordinary citizen can make a complaint against him or any of his ministers. I want to ask the Premier, will he do the right thing, and will he, on behalf of his Cabinet, ask the commissioner to investigate the role of the Premier in this matter and the relationships of the Premier and Mr. Reddy, and in particular whether the Government of Nova Scotia and the Office of the Premier were used for Conservative Party purposes?
THE PREMIER: Mr. Speaker, the member opposite obviously does not want to be confused by the facts. I would ask the Minister of Agriculture to describe to the House any influence that this member had on the decision that he made relative to funding of the harness racing industry in Nova Scotia.
MR. FAGE: Mr. Speaker, the Premier is absolutely right. This issue was completely decided before any reference was passed from any MLA in this House to Cyril Reddy, to any other racetrack owner, any other breeder, anyone associated with the harness racing industry. What happened here, and is clear to everyone's understanding, is that the department, in consultation with the harness racing industry, and other MLAs came up with a reasonable solution. The Premier referred that solution onto Mr. Cyril Reddy as per my request. I have had meetings with Mr. Reddy and anyone else concerned with the harness racing industry.
MR. SPEAKER: The honourable member for Lunenburg West.
MR. DONALD DOWNE: Mr. Speaker, I, too, have a question for the Premier. Last night I heard the Premier in his discussions with the media. He talked about his involvement with a very good friend of his, a campaign manager and a current employee of the Truro race track, indicating that he had talked to him before, during and after the election about the plight of the harness racing industry in the Province of Nova Scotia. During that time, he indicated that he had basically brokered a deal on behalf of the Minister of Agriculture for the Truro Raceway. (Interruption)
In light of that, Mr. Speaker, and I am having a hard time with this voice. I would appreciate quiet in this House. In his own ministerial conduct that he tabled November 18th, it said (Interruption)
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please. Your light is off. Order, please. (Interruption) Because I called order. Members are coming very close. To ask a question is one thing, but the words that are used to ask (Interruption) Obviously, everyone saw this media thing that I didn't see. I don't know what was said. I would again ask the members to please use words that are professional in this House. (Interruption) Order, please. I would ask the honourable member to please put the question.
MR. DOWNE: Professionally brokering a deal with a friend, campaign manager and a Minister of Agriculture, and I quote in his code of conduct. It says, "A minister must disqualify himself or herself from any decision making process . . ." (Interruption)
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please. Would the honourable member please put the question.
MR. DOWNE: Mr. Speaker, the question is, it says, " . . . the minister's private interest, or to improperly seek to further another person's private interest.", should be disqualified and resigned from government. I ask the Premier, are you in violation of your own code of conduct? (Interruption)
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please. The honourable Premier.
THE PREMIER: Mr. Speaker, the member opposite, in search of a point - he has yet to find one - mentioned that I had a previous discussion about racing with the individual concerned. Yes, I did. That discussion occurred when I attended the races last summer at the Truro Raceway. That was the discussion I had prior to the events that I described yesterday to the media. That is what I was talking about. That is the event. I don't see anything in that that puts me in a conflict of interest.
MR. DOWNE: Mr. Speaker, his very good friend, his campaign manager, his buddy that he has IOUs for, he took him to the racetrack, and he even said he lost on his bets when he was at the racetrack. Nevertheless, he was there. He has been influenced by the process. He has been influenced by his friend. He has an IOU out and, furthermore, it says in his own code of conduct . . .
[1:00 p.m.]
MR. SPEAKER: Question, please.
MR. DOWNE: . . . any decision-making process where a minister knows or ought reasonably to know . . .
MR. SPEAKER: Question, please.
MR. DOWNE: . . . that there is any opportunity . . .
MR. SPEAKER: Question.
MR. DOWNE: The question is, again, on Section E of his own code of conduct, to reaffirm or participate in any decision-making process, the individual should resign. I believe that the Premier was influenced, did influence . . .
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please. Order, please. The honourable Premier wants to respond to that.
THE PREMIER: Mr. Speaker, the member opposite has just indicated, as other members have said earlier, I can't go fishing. Now the member opposite is saying I can't go to the horse races. (Laughter) One of the responsibilities, I feel, as Premier, is to be concerned about employment across this province. The harness racing industry is important. It sustains a number of jobs in the Truro area, in the Inverness area and in the Sydney area. We are concerned about those jobs. I will be active in every file in this province that concerns the preservation of jobs, the creation of jobs or bringing in new jobs, and I will not apologize to the member opposite for that kind of . . .
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please. (Applause) Order, please. The honourable member for Lunenburg West on your final supplementary.
MR. DOWNE: Mr. Speaker, I think the Premier broke stride with his own conflict-of-interest guidelines. What kind of Premier do we have here today, who sets a code of conduct for his ministers and breaks the conduct code himself by involving himself in influencing the decision of . . .
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please. (Interruptions) Order, please. That was a question. (Interruption) There was no question.
The honourable Leader of the New Democratic Party.
MR. ROBERT CHISHOLM: Mr. Speaker, I ask the Premier to respond to the admission he made outside the House yesterday, that on behalf of his campaign manager, he personally intervened to help put together a deal with harness racing. The Premier said in response, oh, he didn't do that, that it was actually the Minister of Agriculture and Marketing. I would like to ask the Premier if he would present proof here in this House today that he was not directly involved, as he suggested yesterday, or that somehow the timing got him out of the way. Would he provide some proof here today to contradict what he said outside the House yesterday?
THE PREMIER: Mr. Speaker, I can say to the member opposite, I was asked a question by the media and what I said is, I took the number from the minister and delivered it to the gentleman involved with racing, the spokesperson for the harness racing industry in Nova Scotia. I suggested to that person that he contact the minister to finish up the arrangements with the harness racing industry. At no time did I alter, or suggest, that the number given to me by the minister, made in consultation with his department, should be changed in any way, shape or form. I simply took a number and delivered it. That was my involvement in the case.
MR. ROBERT CHISHOLM: Mr. Speaker, I think what was just described there is a job description of a lobbyist, or a middleman, or of a broker of some sort who puts deals together. I want to say to the Premier that his action is sending a clear message to Nova Scotians that if you want anything resolved, you have to be a personal friend of the Premier or other members of Cabinet. I want to ask the Premier if he would explain to Nova Scotians why it is that he is running this province on the basis of who his friends are rather than what is in the best interests of Nova Scotians? (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please.
THE PREMIER: I would say to the member opposite, my friends are those people who are employed because we have a harness racing industry in the Province of Nova Scotia. People are working in Colchester County, in Inverness County and in the Sydney area because we still have the horse racing industry. I am supportive of that industry, but we are weaning that industry away from public support. I would also say to the member opposite, perhaps he should have a consensus of the members of his own caucus, who are actively involved in petitioning the government to support the harness racing industry on behalf of people who have petitioned them.
MR. ROBERT CHISHOLM: Mr. Speaker, people have to learn from what is happening here today. For example, the charities should have gone directly to the Premier. Cab fare for deputy ministers, but nothing for the disabled; money for harness racing through Mr. Reddy, but no money for 4-H; cooperate or else. The message for public services is, let's make a deal with the Premier's own campaign manager. My final supplementary, why does this Premier continue to divide the province into a short list of political pals who get friendly service and nearly one million other folks who are left out in the cold? Why do you do that?
THE PREMIER: Mr. Speaker, I can reassure the member opposite that this government works in the interests of all Nova Scotians, from one end of Nova Scotia to the other. I will repeat that this Premier and this government will work to protect every job it can in the Province of Nova Scotia. It is our intention, through the course of our mandate, however long or short that is, to improve the employment situation of the people of Nova Scotia and we will not be embarrassed.
MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Leader of the Liberal Party.
MR. RUSSELL MACLELLAN: Mr. Speaker, the Premier's own conflict of interest guidelines say a minister must disqualify himself or herself from any decision and, it says, where improperly used, would seek to further another person's private interest. Did the Premier, in fact, exclude himself from the Cabinet decision to give this $1 million to harness racing in Nova Scotia?
THE PREMIER: Mr. Speaker, what I can say, first of all, is the recommendation that came forward from the department was the one that was passed by Cabinet. It was not altered in the Cabinet Room. I do not recall if that amount went through with the budget estimates of the department or if it went through as a separate OIC. I would have to go back to the Cabinet records to review that, but what I can say to the member opposite, there was no alteration of the recommendation that came from the minister to Cabinet. It was passed as it was brought forward from the department and the minister.
MR. MACLELLAN: I will go on if I might. The conflict of interest guidelines says that any decision-making process where the minister, ". . . ought reasonably to know, that there is an opportunity to further the minister's private interest or to improperly seek to further another person's private interest, the minister shall (ii) withdraw from the decision making process, . . ." The decision-making process would have been the Cabinet decision to approve $1 million. Did the Premier exclude himself from the meeting at the time the decision for the $1 million was brought up, yes or no?
THE PREMIER: Number one, I had already indicated that I would research that; number two, the Premier receives no personal gain from the decision that was made about the harness racing industry in Nova Scotia.
MR. MACLELLAN: Mr. Speaker, how many decisions about harness racing is this government making? He had a person who had worked - his campaign chairman who stood to benefit from this $1 million. There is no question the Truro Raceway will benefit more than any other from this $1 million. Doesn't the Premier see the conflict in which he has put himself? Why doesn't he realize that he has made a mistake? Why can't he acknowledge to the House that he was wrong?
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please. I believe there were three questions there. If the honourable Premier would like to answer one?
MR. PREMIER: Mr. Speaker, I will refer the question to the Minister of Agriculture who can shed a little light for the member opposite.
HON. ERNEST FAGE: Mr. Speaker, I think it is important to shed some real facts on the accusations here. (Interruption) If I may, if they would like to hear the explanation.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please. (Interruption) Order, please. The honourable Minister of Agriculture and Marketing has the floor.
MR. FAGE: Mr. Speaker, 600 people, directly and indirectly, receive benefit from this policy, not Nova Scotia, not a single individual. In Truro, 22 people received benefit from this because they are employed at the Truro Racetrack. There was no personal benefit here to anyone. This is an industry support we are doing. Here we have people here, chicken farmers, trying to make decisions for harness racing. What do you think is going on? (Interruption)
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please. Order.
The honourable Leader of the New Democratic Party.
INTERVENTION INVESTIGATION
THE PREMIER: Yes.
MR. ROBERT CHISHOLM: Mr. Speaker, I would ask the Premier in referring that matter to the Conflict of Interest Commissioner that he ensures the commissioner will clarify, because the Premier does not seem to know or remember, whether or not he was at that Cabinet meeting when the decision was made whether or not the funds were to be granted. Will he ensure that the commissioner is given clear direction to investigate everything with respect to his own guidelines?
THE PREMIER: Mr. Speaker, it is my understanding that the conflict of interest commissioner is quite capable of applying the code of conduct without receiving specific direction from this member or any other member.
MR. ROBERT CHISHOLM: Mr. Speaker, I want to say in my final supplementary that this matter does have a reflection on the Premier's office, on the Premier personally and on his government, and I appreciate his willingness to refer the matter to the Conflict of Interest Commissioner for an investigation and a report. I would just ask the Premier to ensure and to commit here today that that commissioner's report will be made public immediately upon its completion and tabled here in this House.
THE PREMIER: Mr. Speaker, I will assure the member opposite.
MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Leader of the Liberal Party.
MR. RUSSELL MACLELLAN: Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Economic Development. In June, ABN Amro made a presentation to the Board of Directors of Sydney Steel and they said that, in the best interests of Sysco, a hurried process for the sale is likely to result in a failed option or sale to a buyer that is not qualified. Would the minister tell us, because he is considering a lawsuit against ABN Amro, did ABN Amro actually propose the deal between Rail Associates and the government that was brought forward on December 31st?
[1:15 p.m.]
HON. GORDON BALSER: Mr. Speaker, the way in which it unfolded was that ABN Amro was tasked with bringing forward potential purchasers, and they did, in fact, bring forward Rail Associate's name as the client who would be interested in pursuing an offer.
MR. MACLELLAN: Mr. Speaker, I want to know too, did ABN Amro actually bring forward this proposal? Was it the choice of ABN Amro to go with this Rail Associates deal? I think it is important to know exactly what ABN Amro's role was, in this particular deal of December 31st.
MR. BALSER: Mr. Speaker, the Rail Associates deal was brought forward through the ABN Amro process. Yes, they were the ones who brought forward the name Rail Associates.
MR. MACLELLAN: They brought forward the name of Rail Associates, but they didn't make this deal. I think, and I want the minister to tell us, that this proposed suit against ABN Amro is nothing more than a smokescreen to cover the fact that this government actually put this deal together with Rail Associates on their own, yes or no?
MR. BALSER: Mr. Speaker, the ABN Amro process brought forward the name Rail Associates. We then worked with Rail Associates, through our legal counsel, to iron out the details of the deal.
MR. SPEAKER: The honourable member for Cape Breton Centre.
MR. FRANK CORBETT: Mr. Speaker, every few days we learn more details about the way this government used Sysco for political gain. Now we have learned that the Premier and his government were told by ABN Amro that the arbitrary December 31st deadline jeopardized any possibility of a sale; the experts from ABN Amro said that the political manoeuvring would threaten the jobs of 750 people in this province. I want to ask the Premier, why would he knowingly jeopardize the livelihoods of 750 families by placing a politically-motivated deadline on the sale of Sysco?
THE PREMIER: Mr. Speaker, open-ended processes don't work. When you want to sell something, you set a deadline. I believe that the strength of that decision is why we have so much good interest in what is happening out there, relative to Sysco, today.
MR. CORBETT: Mr. Speaker, the Premier can say what he wants, but deep down he knows that he sacrificed 750 families for political gain. The truth is deep down, and he knows that. Now my question will go to the Minister of Economic Development, the Minister responsible for Sysco. ABN Amro said a hurried decision would lead to failure. Why did you ignore their advice?
HON. GORDON BALSER: Mr. Speaker, when we formed government, the arrangement with ABN Amro was already in place. Everyone was aware of the December 31st deadline. In fact, in discussions with ABN Amro, we asked them specifically whether or not they would be able to work within the timelines that had been laid out by the previous
government, and they felt confident that they could do that, and, in fact, were asked periodically throughout the process leading up to December 31st for updates. They seemed confident and were confident that they could work within that existing agreement.
MR. CORBETT: Mr. Speaker, this very minister has said publicly, hindsight is 20/20, and he knows that. Everyone knew, including the minster, what was going on. My final question to the minister is, why won't this minister admit today, in this House, that he imposed a deadline that he knew full well would result in a failed attempt to sell that plant as an ongoing operation?
MR. BALSER: Mr. Speaker, once again, the December 31st deadline was in place, all parties were cognizant of that date, all parties were consulted as to whether or not it was a realistic time-frame, and all agreed that it was. Leading up to the failure of the Rail Associates arrangement, everyone felt that we were working towards a positive resolution. We were committed to finding a buyer who would operate the plant as an ongoing operation, but unfortunately that did not happen.
MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Leader of the Liberal Party.
MR. RUSSELL MACLELLAN: Mr. Speaker, on January 24th the minister said that the province was pulling out of the deal with Rail Associates because the consortium, Rail Associates, did not bring forward the down payment in the form of cash. They did give a bond presented by the Bank of Nova Scotia to the government's lawyers and the lawyers turned it down. Why did this government turn down the deal based on the fact that the down payment was a perfectly good bond, but not cash? Can he tell us that?
HON. GORDON BALSER: Mr. Speaker, legal counsel did not reject the bond; the Bank of Nova Scotia, because it was unusual in nature, did not accept it.
MR. MACLELLAN: Mr. Speaker, the minister said on January 24th that he wanted cash. Did he expect Rail Associates to come with a wheelbarrow full of $20 bills? What did he actually expect Rail Associates to do in performance of their obligation?
MR. BALSER: Mr. Speaker, what we expected was that the companies involved would handle themselves as anyone does in international financing arrangements, and that is to transfer the money to a bank that was mutually acceptable and from there to transfer it into the account that had been arranged by the government's legal counsel.
MR. MACLELLAN: Mr. Speaker, the minister has said that he wanted cash. He wanted cash. Why did he say he wanted cash? I mean, what was he expecting them to do? This was a deal that broke down within three weeks after it was announced. It was formulated by this government, not by ABN Amro. It was doomed to fail . . .
MR. SPEAKER: Question, please.
MR. MACLELLAN: . . . did the minister not know that from the very beginning?
MR. BALSER: Mr. Speaker, one of the clauses in the agreement was that on a certain date $1 million American would be transferred into an account in this province, and that was the issue. We were not concerned about that money, what form it was, whether it was dimes, or pennies, or dollars, or a bond issue. What we wanted was the money transferred into the account on a specified date, and that did not happen.
MR. SPEAKER: The honourable member for Dartmouth-Cole Harbour.
MR. DARRELL DEXTER: Mr. Speaker, this morning the Minister of Health announced the results of the study Transition in Care, which lays out what seniors can expect to see under this government. This reminds me of what happened under the Savage Government when they announced their plan for rationalization of long-term beds, but it was really all about cost-cutting. That plan did not work, and there is no indication that this plan will work. I want to ask the Minister of Health where he intends to get the funds to implement the changes recommended in this report?
HON. JAMES MUIR: Mr. Speaker, as I indicated this morning to the honourable member, this report is under study. Clearly one of the major things that is in that was the move towards a single-entry-access system and the funds, and he will see in the budget that will be presented that we intend to go ahead with that. If he is looking for specific numbers, it would seem to me to be a budgetary item and I do not think I can really comment on that.
MR. DEXTER: Mr. Speaker, the minister has said that he intends to do this within the existing health care envelope. The minister speaks of closing hospital beds, but there is no plan in place at the other end. There is only announcement of this new system. Change takes money. When will the Minister of Health commit to increasing funding to home care services to levels which ensures adequate services are provided within the community?
MR. MUIR: Mr. Speaker, we have made it abundantly clear that we are moving towards a more community-centred model of health service here in the province. Obviously, home care and continuing care is part of that and the actual move towards that, we are in
transition, it is not something, as I say, you just snap your fingers and do overnight. He will see this in the fullness of time.
MR. DEXTER: That is what is known as a dodge, Mr. Speaker. I believe the seniors and their families will need a commitment, today, from you. When will the minister assure Nova Scotians that this is not a veil under which to justify budget cuts and that after these new internal adjustments, seniors will be able to access a level of care they require once they are discharged from the hospital?
MR. MUIR: Mr. Speaker, the move today is not about budget cuts, it is about improving services to Nova Scotians, it is about having a sustainable health care system and a sustainable health care system obviously means one that the province can afford. I don't have to lecture the honourable member opposite on the dire financial straits of this province and the fiscal challenges that we all face as Nova Scotians but needless to say, the initiatives that were recommended today, once fully implemented, if indeed we accept all of those recommendations, should result in a more cost-effective health system for the people of this province.
MR. SPEAKER: The honourable member for Cape Breton South.
MR. MANNING MACDONALD: Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Premier. In documents obtained by the Canadian Press, it indicates that the government knew full well that an artificial sale deadline would hurt the chances of selling the Sydney steel plant. The Clerk of the Executive Council, Jim Spurr, contradicted this at a Public Accounts Committee meeting. At the Public Accounts Committee he said that a six month deadline for ABN Amro was not a problem. My question to the Premier is, why was a senior bureaucrat responsible for Sysco sent to the Public Accounts Committee to lie for this government? (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please. It may not be against a member of the House but it is certainly language that is unparliamentary. It is unparliamentary to call someone a liar. I would just ask the honourable member to rephrase it, please.
MR. MANNING MACDONALD: Mr. Speaker, to rephrase it, the man came to the Public Accounts Committee and he lied. We can prove that, but in the interest of pursuing my point, I will change my wording to say that the proper wording might be a verbal inexactitude. (Laughter) Now will the Premier answer the question?
THE PREMIER: Mr. Speaker, I would ask the minister responsible to respond to the question.
HON. GORDON BALSER: Mr. Speaker, my understanding is that the deputy responsible for Sysco, it was requested that he appear before the Public Accounts Committee and in terms of what he said, his comments around whether or not the timeline would impact on the sale process, he was involved in the board of directors meetings that involved ABN Amro. As I indicated in response to an earlier question, was the timeline going to affect ABN Amro's ability to work through a successful resolution in terms of the sale, he was well aware that they said at that time, no it would not. They were comfortable and confident that they would be able to work within the deadline that was prearranged by the previous government.
MR. MANNING MACDONALD: I tell you, Mr. Speaker, this government is putting new meaning to the word lie. My supplementary (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please. (Interruptions)
THE PREMIER: You are not going to be thrown out. You have already said that. Why don't you just walk out? (Applause)
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please. (Interruptions) Order, please. (Interruptions)
Order, please. Again, I remind the member that (Interruptions) Order, please! I would ask the honourable member to use parliamentary language, please, in this House, so I would ask the member to retract that and rephrase that, please.
MR. MANNING MACDONALD: I am not going to rephrase anything. I am not going to ask that again. I just made a comment. It wasn't part of my . . .
MR. SPEAKER: Still, it is unparliamentary language within this House. (Interruptions)
Order, please! Order!
MR. MANNING MACDONALD: You have already told me that the word lying in this House in unparliamentary . . .
MR. SPEAKER: Yes, so you retract it. Thank you.
MR. MANNING MACDONALD: . . . I told you that before. I did already.
MR. SPEAKER: Thank you.
MR. MANNING MACDONALD: Mr. Speaker, a professional, non-partisan Public Service is a hallmark of responsible government, something that is missing opposite. If indeed Mr. Spurr was misleading this House, he should be resigning. My supplementary question to
the Premier is, will the Premier ask for the Clerk of the Executive Council to resign immediately?
[1:30 p.m.]
THE PREMIER: Mr. Speaker, the gentleman to whom the member opposite refers is a competent, devoted senior official of the Province of Nova Scotia. The successful conclusion of a Sysco file, much of the credit, will be able to be awarded to that particular senior official of the Province of Nova Scotia. (Applause) When that day occurs, I would hope that the member opposite, who does have a genuine concern for steelworkers and their families, would be gentlemanly enough to go up to that particular senior civil servant and congratulate him.
MR. MANNING MACDONALD: Now, the Premier is becoming a comedian, along with everything else. Mr. Speaker, this government is trying to cover up its own failure. The Clerk of the Executive Council, on behalf of the government, has sent threatening letters to steelworkers, and other people like Stewart Hendon, Rick Lawlor and Myles Paisley; in other words, if you don't get with the program, you are out of here. That public servant crossed the line, Mr. Premier, crossed the line, on behalf of your government. Now, he has misled the House and I am asking you, Mr. Premier, to ask for his resignation or if you condone his activities?
THE PREMIER: The gentleman in question is an excellent servant of the Province of Nova Scotia and I will not be asking for his resignation.
MR. SPEAKER: The honourable member for Hants East.
MR. JOHN MACDONELL: Mr. Speaker, my question will be to the Premier. Another day, another minister musing about higher user fees for Nova Scotians. Yesterday the Minister of Agriculture and Marketing, the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture and the Minister of Natural Resources, all appeared at a business lunch in Sydney. He said there will be fee increases for many fisheries and agricultural-related permits. My question to the Premier, where among your 243 election promises is there a single mention of higher fees for Nova Scotians?
THE PREMIER: Mr. Speaker, the member opposite is asking me to comment on words uttered by the Minister of Agriculture, and I would ask him to respond to the question.
HON. ERNEST FAGE: Mr. Speaker, the fact of the matter as the member opposite knows, when you are trying to control and spend dollars efficiently on behalf of the public in this province and in the situation where we are dealing with a deficit, obviously, one of the
ways to do it is in looking at fees that are charged for services in some departments which I represent, as a way to ensure there are proper dollars there to pay for programs.
MR. JOHN MACDONELL: Mr. Speaker, again to the Premier. This is a government intent on increasing revenue by stealth. This government didn't have the guts to make its intentions plain in the last election. I don't remember the Premier running on a platform of higher user fees and this government also doesn't have the guts to bring these proposals to the floor of the Legislature (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please. Unless there are 51 people who would want to come up here and sit, I will do it, thank you. I would ask the honourable to please retract that, that is unparliamentary language; on two occasions, "guts". It is. (Interruptions) It is. Order, please.
MR. JOHN MACDONELL: I will retract that, Mr. Speaker. This government didn't have the intestinal fortitude to make its intentions plain in the last election. I don't remember the Premier running on a platform of higher user fees. This government also doesn't have the intestinal fortitude to bring these proposals to the floor of the Legislature for public debate, instead we get ministers making hints at business lunches. My question to the Premier is, when will this government stop playing peekaboo with Nova Scotians and bring forward a comprehensive discussion paper on its plan for new and higher fees?
THE PREMIER: Mr. Speaker, I will refer, to the member opposite, a representative of the Party that wants it both ways. The Party that criticized the government for 243 commitments, clearly outlining what it would do if it got elected. Today, the same Party is saying, you were not clear as a government what you were going to be doing after you got elected. You can't have it both ways. It is one way or the other. Make up your minds.
MR. JOHN MACDONELL: Mr. Speaker, we read this morning that the Halifax Regional School Board is being forced by this tight-wad government to debate new fees for education services. These services include community-building programs like English as a second language. My question to the Premier, what steps is this government taking to ensure that new and higher user fees will not be imposed by cash-strapped municipalities and school boards?
THE PREMIER: Mr. Speaker, it is getting hard to hear the questions, but I believe the question is, how does the government intend to control school boards in introducing user fees into education? That would be a question either for Municipal Affairs or Education. I will try the Minister of Education.
HON. JANE PURVES: Mr. Speaker, the Department of Education is responsible for the delivery of core education services. There are other services that school boards provide that they may or may not wish to attach user fees to. I can assure this House that for the core
education programs of the department and the curriculum that is needed in the schools there will be no user fees for those programs.
MR. SPEAKER: The honourable for member for Cape Breton Nova.
MR. PAUL MACEWAN: Mr. Speaker, a question through you to the Minister of Tourism and Culture. VIA Rail Canada recently decided to reinstate passenger rail service on the Halifax to Sydney run and is proposing to implement a train to be called The Bras d'Or, a tourism-oriented train that will make that run for those who want to enjoy rail travel once again over that stretch of track. The Orangedale Station Association which operates a railway museum in the former train station at Orangedale has asked that that train stop at Orangedale so that the passengers aboard can step outside and see the museum en route. I think that is an excellent suggestion. I have been into that museum myself quite recently, and I was very impressed with the displays there. (Interruption)
MR. SPEAKER: Question, please, before the train goes by.
MR. MACEWAN: I would ask the Minister of Tourism if he could update the House as to the efforts that he has undertaken to try to bring about an agreement from VIA Rail Canada that that train, when it begins, would stop at the Orangedale Station?
HON. RODNEY MACDONALD: Mr. Speaker, I thank the honourable member for the question. I am well aware of the Orangedale Station as it is in my riding. We are in a marketing initiative with The Bras d'Or to ensure that it is properly marketed not only for Nova Scotians, but Atlantic Canada and elsewhere. There is a timeline which only allows the train to make one stop on the way, and that is in Port Hawkesbury for one hour due to the amount of hours required. Mr. Speaker, I can tell you that this initiative will be a great one for Nova Scotia. We are looking forward to it this summer.
MR. MACEWAN: Mr. Speaker, it is rather difficult to hear what the minister has said over the din, but I gather from the uproar that he did not say that he has been successful in arranging for that train to stop at Orangedale. As that particular train station has been the subject of a rather famous song by the Rankin Family entitled the "Orangedale Whistle" which states in part, the station master looked all around along the track both up and down . . .
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please. I don't know if the Minister of Tourism heard the honourable member's question. Could he please put the question.
The honourable member for Cape Breton Nova.
MR. MACEWAN: Perhaps he can sing it for us in his reply. I would like to table that song by the Rankin Family.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please. (Interruption) Order, please. Would the honourable member for Cape Breton Nova please repeat the question only.
MR. MACEWAN: It is rather to difficult to repeat all that. My question to the minister is, is it his intention to implement the terms of this song by the Rankin Family that the train could not be found?
MR. RODNEY MACDONALD: I wish I could sing it for the honourable member, Mr. Speaker, and I thank him for the question again. There is a certain timeline which suggests that the train will leave here in the morning, it has to be in Sydney by a certain time that evening. There is time for one stop and one stop only and that would be in Port Hawkesbury for one hour and again I say, this is a great initiative for Nova Scotia, a great initiative for this government.
MR. MACEWAN: I cannot understand for a moment why that train should stop for a whole hour in Port Hawkesbury and not stop for even 15 minutes in Orangedale and I would like to ask this minister, will he insist that that train stop at Orangedale or else resign as Minister of Tourism and Culture? (Interruptions)
MR. RODNEY MACDONALD: The concerns from the Orangedale station have been brought forward to The Bras d'Or and VIA Rail, but again as I say, there is time for one stop and that is in Port Hawkesbury which is about mid-way and that is the way it is, Mr. Speaker, and I do not think I will be resigning over this issue. (Applause)
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please.
The honourable member for Dartmouth North.
MR. JERRY PYE: Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Premier. Yesterday two ministers directly contradicted something the Premier had said only last week. The Premier's otherwise vague restructuring plan is pretty clear, at least on one point. It says that the government will relocate some of its central office functions outside the metro area. Yesterday, two of his ministers said there were no plans for this to happen. My question to the Premier is, why doesn't this government know what its left hand is doing or what its right hand is doing?
THE PREMIER: Mr. Speaker, I would ask the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Natural Resources to answer the question.
HON. ERNEST FAGE: Mr. Speaker, the fact of the matter is, the question I was asked in Sydney yesterday, are any of the three departments that I am responsible for, moving to the area, I quite truthfully said to the reporter, no, we had no intentions. What we are dealing with in this budget is ensuring that a massive deficit run up by the previous government is dealt with and we put this province onto the proper economic road.
MR. PYE: That is extremely difficult to digest. The otherwise vague restructuring plan says that decentralizing government jobs will ensure that the economic fabric of our rural community will be protected. That was by the Premier, yesterday the Minister of Finance said, "We don't look at moving government around as a form of economic generation." My question to the Premier is, which version of government policy should Nova Scotians believe? The version of the Minister of Finance or the Premier's version?
THE PREMIER: What the intention of government is that all of the moves will be made on the basis of a business plan. Those plans that make sense will be followed, those plans that do not make sense will not be followed. That was the statement of government and those are the statements that we have been hearing from all government ministers, not only the two that you are quoting here today.
MR. PYE: Mr. Speaker, that is a plan to ignore rural communities and community development. My final question to the Premier is, when will the Premier admit that his promise to decentralize is just another vague generality that he has no intention of keeping?
THE PREMIER: Mr. Speaker, I can assure the member opposite that this government has every intention of keeping the commitments that it makes to the people of Nova Scotia.
[1:45 p.m.]
MR. SPEAKER: The honourable member for Cape Breton The Lakes.
MR. BRIAN BOUDREAU: Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Education. Yesterday, Tory members in the Newfoundland House of Assembly were demanding that all new Marine Atlantic ferry jobs go to Newfoundland. I want to table a document that proves Nova Scotia training programs do not start until March 20th. This is months behind Newfoundland. I want to ask the minister, does the minister feel she has done enough to make sure Nova Scotia workers are on an equal footing with Newfoundland in regard to these jobs?
HON. JANE PURVES: Mr. Speaker, I feel that the community college has been working on this issue since it was first brought to our attention last fall. They have provided a tailor-made course for Nova Scotians.
MR. BOUDREAU: I am going to go directly to the Premier. The Premier was in North Sydney and he met with the workers and he met with community officials from the regional municipality down there. He has made the commitment, on behalf of the workers, to the community. Mr. Premier, what are you going to do to ensure that these jobs go to Nova Scotians? (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please. I have never had a job where so many people wanted to do it for me. (Interruptions) Order, please. In all fairness to the honourable member for Cape Breton The Lakes. Put the question only, please, the quick end of your question.
MR. BOUDREAU: Mr. Speaker, my question to the Premier, what will you do to fulfil the commitment you made to this community and the workers at this terminal in North Sydney to ensure that Nova Scotians have equal opportunity for these jobs?
THE PREMIER: A good question. I will continue to work with the senator responsible for Nova Scotia in the federal Cabinet. I will continue to lobby the federal government aggressively, and I will continue to work cooperatively with the member opposite to make sure the jobs come to his area.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please. The time allotted for the Oral Question Period has expired.
MR. DONALD DOWNE: Mr. Speaker, on a point of order. During Question Period, the Minister of Agriculture made some very derogatory comments impugning that I and, in fact, all chicken producers, chicken farmers and their families were not able to make decisions. I find this particular statement by my colleague, the Minister of Agriculture, absolutely unacceptable. I found his comments insulting to me personally and insulting to my colleagues who are in the feather industry and to their families. I find it even harder to take it when the Minister of Agriculture, who in fact is the minister responsible for representing chicken farmers in the Province of Nova Scotia, would make such a derogatory comment.
Mr. Speaker, through you, I am asking the Minister of Agriculture to stand up in this House and to apologize to the chicken farmers and to me for making it appear that farmers are stupid and cannot make decisions. I think that is absolutely deplorable for a Minister of Agriculture to ever impute such derogatory comments on the farm community. I ask for his apology. (Applause)
MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Minister of Agriculture and Marketing.
HON. ERNEST FAGE: Mr. Speaker, I welcome the opportunity to clarify my comments in the debate earlier. The comments were intended that harness racing is an industry best receiving advice from people involved, the horsemen, racetrack owners in harness racing. (Interruptions) Involvement from the chicken farmers are best put to the minister involved in the feather industry. That is what I do on a daily basis. When I am involved with the feather industry, I take advice from the feather industry. The member opposite knows that last fall when we were dealing with the feather industry, we were taking advice from him directly to the minister. If it is the harness racing industry, we take direct advice from that industry.
MR. DONALD DOWNE: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. I just cannot imagine this dairy farmer, Minister of Agriculture - one of the most important sectors of the economy - would ever be this insulting to the chicken producers of the Province of Nova Scotia. We have before us today a Minister of Agriculture, himself a farmer, who takes direction from whoever, possibly now the Premier, who is a doctor, who is advising him on issues of money for horse racing. I find that the minister, today, is the most insulting Minister of Agriculture I have ever heard or seen in this Legislative Assembly, to say that chicken farmers in this province cannot make a decision regarding . . .
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please. The honourable member for Lunenburg West has raised a point of order. I am going to review Hansard and I will report back to the House. (Interruption) Is it on the same issue?
HON. ERNEST FAGE: Yes, I would like to raise a point of order with the honourable member. Mr. Speaker, we have listened to the honourable member rave on about his credibility, about the industry. All members of the farming industry and community are responsible people who make responsible recommendations, and certainly each one of those commodities make responsible recommendations in the greatest degree when they are focused on their own industry. I fully resent the comment that farmers are stupid - and censure - that the member opposite made. He is the one who made that comment.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: You said it. You are the one . . .
MR. FAGE: I said no such remark, Mr. Speaker. (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please. I have already indicated to the House I will take it under advisement and report back.
GOVERNMENT BUSINESS
MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Government House Leader.
HON. RONALD RUSSELL: Mr. Speaker, would you please call the order of business, Public Bills for Second Reading.
PUBLIC BILLS FOR SECOND READING
MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Government House Leader.
HON. RONALD RUSSELL: Mr. Speaker, would you please call Bill No. 34.
Bill No. 34 - Health Authorities Act.
MR. SPEAKER: The honourable member for Halifax Chebucto.
MR. HOWARD EPSTEIN: Mr. Speaker, I wonder if you might assist me by letting me know just how much time I have left in the period.
MR. SPEAKER: You have approximately 36 minutes.
MR. EPSTEIN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. When we left off the other day in our debate about Bill No. 34, we had reached the point where I had reviewed what I found to be some of the main features of this bill and some of the main problematic features of the bill. The two I had touched on . . .
MR. SPEAKER: You have 24 minutes. Sorry.
MR. EPSTEIN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, I will just carry on, noting now the new time.
The point we had reached in debate the other day was that I had reviewed a couple of the main outstanding features of the bill, the ones that I found to be among the most objectionable here. I started with the review of the very extraordinary powers that were proposed to be granted to the Minister of Health under this bill. I had to say that this was unprecedented so far as I was aware and also, so far as I was aware, completely unnecessary to deal with the nature of the problems that we have in front of us.
The second point I had turned to was a question of the importance of the community health boards and the whole conception of community health. I had observed that the necessity of building a health care system from the ground up was one that did not seem to be reflected in this piece of legislation. I had noted for members the important history that we
have had in Nova Scotia in trying to put together community-based health initiatives and I had reminded members that we had had some success in moving in this direction.
Having noted those matters, I now want to move to several other points which seem to me to emerge from this bill and that present a serious and problematic aspect to it. The one I wish to deal with just at the moment is the problem of in part what is ignored in this legislation because, although it purports to deal with reorganization of the administrative side of health care, we have to recognize that there is a whole array of problems inside the health care system and according to the needs of those problems or problem areas, that is how we have to measure how efficacious the bill is.
I want to just note what it is that we are seeing as part of the transformation of the health care system now. Inevitably we know that all of these changes have either started to take place or will take place in our health care system. We know, and you will all recognize, I am sure, as I list them, that there is going to be an increased pace of change, of transformation, inside the health care system with respect to all of them. The first, of course, is the problem of nursing. Everyone knows this is a difficulty. There is the problem of home care. There is the problem of hospices. There is the problem of health education. There is the problem of extended care or nursing homes. There is the problem of community clinics. There is the question of HMOs. There is the question of the extent to which remuneration of physicians ought to be put on a different basis than it now exists.
Each and every one of these particular points is an aspect of the health care system regarding which we know there are urgent questions. On nursing, probably I need say very little. I cannot think that there is a member of this House who, having gone through the election that we went through last year, is not aware, in depth, of how crucial the need is for additional nurses in our health care system. I am sure every member is aware of how pressing it is that we find ways to educate more nurses and to recruit and attract and retain nurses inside our system. We know that we don't stack up well in this province when compared with other provinces when it comes to making working conditions attractive for the nursing profession. It is not surprising, therefore, that new graduates in nursing choose to go elsewhere in large numbers.
I don't see what it is in this bill that moves us toward improving conditions for nurses. What we hear from the minister in his explanations, including the comments given today, is that he is preoccupied with something he calls a footprint. The minister is preoccupied with something he calls a single entry system but he doesn't tell us very much about what he means by that. None of it seems to have much direct bearing on how it is we are going to improve the situation with respect to nurses.
I say exactly the same problem arises with respect to home care. What is it that every Nova Scotian learned was wrong with the previous government's approach to health care reform, so-called, starting in 1993? When the Liberal Government then under Premier Savage
embarked upon the transformation of health care at the time, what they did was they started closing hospital beds without putting in place any kind of adequate home care system. Everyone knows this. I think the previous government admitted to it but certainly we all know that that was the case. We all know that this was a fundamental error of approach to administration of the health care system yet, Mr. Speaker, I don't see anything in this bill that tells us we are going to put in place a new administrative structure that will even remotely guarantee that those mistakes will not be repeated. Where is it in this bill? It is not there. There is nothing in this bill that would lead in the direction, let alone guarantee, that alternative supports are in place before changes are made to the traditional tertiary care system.
I don't want to be misunderstood. I certainly think that changes are needed in the tertiary care model that has been at the forefront of our health care system. I think there is widespread agreement amongst policy makers in Nova Scotia that that is needed. But where is it in this bill? Where is it even by implication? I don't see it. I don't see a commitment to principles. I don't see it by way of efficient administrative structures.
[2:00 p.m.]
I make this same point with respect to hospices. We need them, we know we are going to need more of them. We know that with both an ageing population and with the particular problems of some particularly difficult terminal diseases, that there is a place for hospices in the health care system. Where do we see something in the new administrative structures that are being proposed through this bill that will tell us that we will have that system up in place? We don't see it. Instead, what we see is a statement today from the minister, and what he is getting ready to do is close more hospital beds under the name of efficiency. What he intends to do is get people out of hospital much more quickly than in the past. But he says nothing about where it is he is proposing these people should go. There is certainly nothing in his star piece of legislation that would let us think that his mind has been turned to any of these problems at all.
What about health education? We know that health education is a huge part of keeping people healthy in the first place. We know that if people understand, that they can make healthy choices for themselves, they won't run up the bills in the health care system. We know that if people are brought to believe and act upon their beliefs in a range of easily identified things, like smoking, nutrition and exercise, that ultimately they will not be the expensive burden on the health care system that we have seen. That is important. But where is it in this bill that this is somehow adopted as a principle or facilitated by the new administrative structure? I don't see it.
We know that extended care or nursing homes are going to be needed. We know all of those things are required as the population ages. Quite clearly, there is going to be increased demand for those services. Where is it in this bill that we are told this is a priority of the
government? Where is it in this bill that the new contemplated administrative structures will facilitate putting in place the nursing homes, the extended care facilities that we know now are going to be needed? It is not there.
This is true again, with respect to community clinics. I spoke the other day about my own personal experience with the North End community health clinic. Other clinics have come into being in Nova Scotia. We know that this is a model that is desirable. But where is it in this bill that they go on record as saying, yes, we embrace this model? Where is it in this bill that they put in place an administrative structure that facilitates the creation of new community clinics? It is not there.
I think that what is missing from this bill is some kind of clearly-laid-out commitment to the principles of the Canada Health Act. That is another way to sum it up. We have never yet in Nova Scotia actually passed mirror image legislation to the federal Canada Health Act. The federal Canada Health Act says that the health care system has to be accessible and universal and portable and not-for-profit and comprehensive. Those are the principles according to which federal dollars are made available to the provinces to run a health care system.
Why have we not, in Nova Scotia, ever adopted a parallel piece of legislation that says those are the principles upon which we are going to run our health care system here? That should have been done years ago. Indeed, members of this Party for years have regularly introduced into the House bills that would have established a Nova Scotia health Act on exactly the same principles as the Canada Health Act. Our Party has called them for debate, these various bills, but never have we been able to win the support of whichever Party was in government to adopt those bills. They have either been ignored or talked out.
This would have been the opportunity for the Minister of Health to come forward and say to us that he supports the principles of the Canada Health Act and wants to see them embodied in legislation in Nova Scotia that is part of his new conception of how health care is to be administered here. But we don't see principles in this bill. What we see are a lot of detailed, convoluted provisions that have to do with administrative structures, that concentrate power in the hands of the minister. There is nothing principled about this.
If we don't explicitly turn to those principles and make them the touchstone of what we do in the transformation of the health care system here, then we are going to find ourselves floundering around with some kind of new administrative system that is ultimately directionless except for the direction that the particular minister of the day cares to give to it. I don't find that acceptable. This is simply a huge omission from the nature of the bill.
What that means is that in the end, all of us who are general citizens in Nova Scotia are the losers. I don't see very many winners here, when I try to balance it off. Certainly the minister is, to a certain extent, a winner, if he wants to accumulate that much power in his
hands. I suppose the new district health boards will be winners, in some sense. I don't doubt that the physicians will be winners under this system. Certainly other employees inside the system are not likely to be winners. That brings me, if I may, Mr. Speaker, to another aspect of this bill.
Might I trouble you, Mr. Speaker, to let me know just how many minutes I have left.
MR. SPEAKER: You have 20 minutes.
MR. EPSTEIN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The next aspect of this bill that I want to turn to is the question of labour relations as contemplated under this bill. I know in second reading debate we should steer away from any kind of detailed discussion of the clauses of the bill. All I can do, I think, is assure the members that I tried to read my way through, in as much detail as possible, all the various clauses of the bill to try to understand exactly what it is that the bill contemplates.
In reading those clauses, what I have tried to do is understand exactly how there will be impact on the employees in the system, under some contemplated reorganization. The starting point for that is to recognize that there is a huge amount of power given to the minister to direct a reorganization of the system. That is one of the main thrusts of this bill. It is not just that the minister has general direction of the policy of the Department of Health and through them to the regional health boards or the district health boards as they are going to be. It is, in fact, more specific than that.
The minister will have power to rearrange the employment situations of everyone involved in the health care system. I will be able to do that by taking portions of the health care system that are up and running now, either in existence under the regional health boards or in existence in the non-designated organizations and move them around, or indeed end them. That is the nature of the power that the minister has. That is the starting point, is to recognize that that power exists.
One of the main points about that, of course, is that there is nothing in this bill that calls for the minister to do it by negotiation with the employees. I am sure it does not trouble the government, but it troubles me. Even if we assume that the government is not interested in making these kinds of decisions by negotiation but wishes to do them through administrative order direct from the minister, then what we have to focus on are what are the consequences for the employees. This is the problem of successor rights.
This is the question of what happens to employees who are in an employment situation where they have collective agreements and pension plans and seniority and established