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HALIFAX, WEDNESDAY, APRIL 11, 2007
MR. CHAIRMAN: Order, please. We will begin with the Estimates of the Department of Justice.
Resolution E13 - Resolved, that a sum not exceeding $128,205,000 be granted to the Lieutenant Governor to defray expenses in respect of the Department of Justice, pursuant to the Estimate.
MR. CHAIRMAN: I'd like to welcome the Minister of Justice here tonight. We'll call on the minister for his opening statements.
HON. MURRAY SCOTT: Mr. Chairman, welcome to the committee this evening. I am pleased to be here tonight and I would like, just before I begin, to introduce some of the senior staff who are here with me tonight. From the Department of Justice is Executive Director of Finance and Administration Clarence Guest on my right; Mr. Bob Purcell, Director of Policy Planning and Research on my left; as well from the Public Prosecution Service we have Martin Herschorn who is Director of Public Prosecutions, and Paul McNeil, Director of Business Affairs for the Public Prosecution Service. There are also several other members of staff from the department who are here to assist in the event that there are questions around the various responsibilities that they have within the department.
I am pleased to be here today to discuss the budget and the initiatives of the Department of Justice. I'd like to start by offering you an overview of our activities directed at ensuring the excellence in the administration of justice as well as our efforts to improve the safety and security of Nova Scotia communities.
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The Department of Justice is committed to the fair and effective administration of justice and to excellence and service to the people of the Province of Nova Scotia. To accomplish this mandate the department provides services through seven divisions: Policing and Victim Services, Court Services, Correctional Services, Legal Services, Human Resources, Information Management, and Finance and Administration.
I'm also minister responsible for a variety of other agencies providing important services to Nova Scotians. These include the Human Rights Commission, an independent government agency charged with administering Nova Scotia's Human Rights Act. Under the authority of the Act, the commission focuses on two core business functions: resolving complaints of discrimination, and public education and outreach. As members of this House are aware Mayann Francis, CEO of the commission was recently appointed as Nova Scotia's Lieutenant Governor. Michael Noonan has been acting CEO and Director of the Nova Scotia Human Rights Commission since Ms. Francis' departure. We are currently well in the process of seeking a permanent replacement for Ms. Francis.
As well, I am Minister responsible for the Workers' Compensation Appeals Tribunal, an independent agency that operates separately from the Workers' Compensation Board. The tribunal hears appeals on the final decisions of hearing officers with the board. It is the final level of appeal within the Workers' Compensation system. As I mentioned earlier, the department effectively manages daily operations of the justice system through a number of core business areas.
Our policing and victim services programs are directed at improving public safety and security. Through this division we provide oversight, governance, and advice to police, private security services, and firearms licence holders. For example, our policing services division acts in an advisory role to all police services and management contracts with the RCMP and First Nations policing. We strengthen policing initiatives through the development of standards and training in partnership with stakeholders.
My department also provides assistance to victims of crime. We work with justice partners and the community to develop programs that address the needs of crime victims. Direct services for victims are provided through four core programs: the Provincial Victim Services Program, the Criminal Injury Counselling Program, the Victim Impact Statement Program, and the Child Victim/Witness Program.
Our Court Services section provides civil law, criminal law, and family court services. These services include court administration and management, small claims, bankruptcy law adjudication, security and transport of prisoners to and from court, restorative justice for diverting offences involving youth, and justice of the peace.
The department operates approximately 35 court houses and court administration is managed through 14 justice centres across the province. The division also manages the
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Maintenance Enforcement Program with eight offices across the Province of Nova Scotia. The Correctional Services division provides community-based corrections including adult diversion measures, court information, offender supervision, and reintegration programs. Custody-based corrections involve facility operations and reintegration programs and planning.
The department operates five adult correctional facilities, one youth correctional facility in Waterville and a small satellite youth detention facility for short-term accommodation in Sydney. Twenty-two community corrections offices are also operated across the province. Overall there are approximately 10,000 court-ordered admissions to correctional services on an annual basis.
Legal Services at the department represents the Crown and its agencies before courts and tribunals in support of alternative dispute resolution. Solicitor services include legal advice to the Crown and its agencies, corporate counsel services, drafting regulations and legislation, law reform and legislation support, and client education.
Nova Scotia's medical examiner services also falls under the jurisdiction of my department. Nova Scotia's Chief Medical Examiner is Dr. Matthew Bowes and his office conducts investigations into all deaths due to violence, culpable negligence, as well as sudden unexplained deaths.
The Department of Justice also coordinates the administration of the Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act. Bob Doherty, our freedom of information coordinator retired at the end of March and Ann Guinchard is acting FOIPOP coordinator in his absence.
The priorities for 2007-08 are as follows: we've established our priorities under four strategic goals: a justice system that is properly administered and cost effective, that ensures there is public confidence in the justice system, that people do feel safe and secure, and that people make constructive choices. Over the next year we will continue to implement activities directed at helping us achieve these goals.
Crime and its effects are a growing concern across Canada and Nova Scotia. Our communities and the residents are the foundation of our province and every citizen in a peaceful, just and democratic society deserves to feel safe and secure. That is why the safety and security of our citizens will continue to be a high priority for this government over the coming year. This is a complex issue and we are working on initiatives that address both law enforcement and, of course, the root causes of crime. A major government public safety initiative is providing funding for the hiring of 250 new police officers over four years starting this Spring.
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This year in this budget the government committed $7.5 million to hire the first 80 of these new officers. Just last Friday here in Halifax I attended Halifax Regional Police swearing in of 15 of these new officers. Every community in Nova Scotia will receive at least one new officer by the Spring of 2008. A strategic deployment committee has been established to plan for the allocation of the remaining officers. Priority issues in considering distribution of the new officers include activities to address organized crime, street crime, child exploitation, illegal drugs, and school safety.
An additional $685,000 is being provided to police as part of our $6 million commitment to Criminal Intelligence Service Nova Scotia. This funding will improve coordination among the RCMP and municipal police. Illegal drugs are one example of areas that are to be targeted. The province is now working with law enforcement and other key partners to create a comprehensive drug strategy tailored to meet the needs of Nova Scotians. The strategy is focusing on prevention, enforcement, reduction of harm, and treatment.
We are supporting this plan with the introduction of legislation that puts strict controls in place while introducing new penalties. The Act to combat the production and use of illegal drugs will allow government to regulate the storage, transportation, distribution, and sale of ingredients, materials, and equipment used in the production and use of illegal drugs. The bill requires people to notify authorities if they become aware of the loss or theft of certain ingredients, materials, or equipment.
Also this year the department created a Public Safety Investigation Unit under the Safer Communities and Neighbourhoods Act. Under this Act, complaints from community members can result in court orders to close locations that are home to prostitution, illegal drugs, illegal alcohol, or gaming. Citizens can also register their concerns about buildings that are unusually fortified. The director of this new unit has been hired and we're in the process of hiring the three investigative officers and we expect the unit to be fully operational by late Spring or early summer. The new investigative unit will target criminal activities including the sale of illegal drugs and alcohol, prostitution and gambling as I earlier said. The unit will follow up on complaints and work with community members on their concerns and this has been welcomed by police as a valuable tool in their efforts to fight crime in this province.
Nova Scotia's medical examiner services provides investigation into all deaths due to violence, undue means, culpable negligence and unexpected or unexplained deaths throughout the province. The office provides written documentation including cause and manner of death and makes report available to next of kin and appropriate agencies. The office of the Chief Medical Examiner is staffed by a group of professionals bound by an ethical code to perform their duties with strict adherence to confidentiality, accuracy, integrity, and without bias.
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The medical examiner system, under the direction of Chief Medical Examiner, is managed from a provincial office located in Halifax. The office administers the complete Province of Nova Scotia and has a permanent staff of two coordinators of investigation, an administrative officer, a health records technician, and a secretary. Medical examiner services plays an important role both in the province's justice system and the lives of families going through a time of loss and mourning. This year government is investing approximately $365,000 in the province's medical examiner services to support the hiring of a deputy chief medical examiner and other support staff.
This year the Department of Justice is offering cash rewards of up to $50,000 for information leading to the arrest and conviction of individuals responsible for specified major unsolved crimes. Under this program a major unsolved crime is defined as an unsolved homicide, found unidentified human remains where there's suspicious circumstances, and missing persons cases where there's suspicious circumstances as well. Starting last October police agencies across the province were invited to refer cases to the province's Rewards for Major Unsolved Crimes Program. The case will remain in the program for as long as requested by the police agency.
The Rewards for Major Unsolved Crimes Program is another tool law enforcement can use in their efforts to solve crimes. Any member of the public with information surrounding one of the cases in the program can call a toll free line. An individual coming forward with information will be expected to provide their name and contact information. In addition, this person may also be called to testify in court. All calls to the Rewards for Major Unsolved Crimes Program will be traced and recorded. I hope this program will encourage individuals when they have pertinent information to come forward. Through this program we hope to help ease some of the uncertainty and grief faced by victims' families and friends.
The Department of Justice maintains a Web site containing the details of cases included in the program. Currently there are 19 cases listed in this program. The department is always willing to accept new cases and encourage police agencies from across the province to bring these cases to our attention. There's also, for the major unsolved crime information system, a toll free number as well that can be accessed from throughout the province.
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Another initiative welcomed by police over the past year is the Electronic Supervision Program. We have undertaken this project in partnership with the Public Prosecution Service, Correctional Services, municipal police, and the RCMP to enhance conditional sentence monitoring and enforcement. Nova Scotia is the leader in this area, it is the first jurisdiction to use global positioning technology to track offenders serving sentences in the community.
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One of the goals of our government is to build a stronger, safer Nova Scotia, a province where the law, security and consequences are taken very seriously. The electronic supervision of offenders is an important step towards the larger goal of enhancing public safety in our province. With this new sentencing option we now have approximately 30 offenders in the community being monitored with this new technology. We hope to grow this number to 100. We expect this to be used more and more as an effective tool to monitor offenders who are required to serve all or part of their sentence in the community.
An area of concern for many Nova Scotians has been youth crime, highlighted by the death of Theresa McEvoy. On November 10, 2004, my department announced a public inquiry to look into the events which preceded her death and testimony was completed in June. On December 5, 2006 government received the final report of inquiry from Commissioner Merlin Nunn. Commissioner Nunn and his lead council, Michael Messenger, took on an enormous task and they produced an excellent report containing recommendations of how we can further improve our youth justice system. We've already taken steps to enhance these services. I'd like to thank Mr. Nunn and Mr. Messenger for their dedication to this process and for their wonderful work. I'd also like to add that other jurisdictions across Canada are supportive of the ideas of the Nunn Commission Report. I have had a number of my ministerial colleagues from across the country tell me that they have found the report to be highly informative and helpful in addressing the problems facing youth at risk.
Relating to the Nunn Report, last year $450,000 was invested to develop an attendance centre to provide improved response to youth who are in conflict with the law. This year $1.3 million will support the new attendance centre and bail supervision program in the Halifax Regional Municipality. The attendance centre is temporarily located in St. Patrick's High School on Quinpool Road. It is to be coordinated by the Department of Justice and will provide such services as: teachers to provide academic instruction to high-risk, high-needs youth; community supervision services; social workers; counsellors; mental health services; parent support groups; community service work opportunities; job search and resume preparation programming; and programs including anger management, cognitive skills and substance abuse.
We have seen the excellent progress that can be made with youth who receive services at the Waterville youth facility and look forward to expanding these services in the community at the attendance centre. At the same time, we, and many others continue to have concerns about some of the elements of the Youth Criminal Justice Act. I will continue to press the federal government for amendments that will deal more effectively for the small number of out-of-control youth who cannot be adequately served under the current Act.
The activities I have just described are all critical to government's efforts to enhance the safety of our communities. However, I also firmly believe that activities that threaten our collective well-being are not solely the responsibility of government and law enforcement. Crime and its effects are a growing concern across Canada and Nova Scotia. We are
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increasingly dismayed by reports of street crime, particularly the behaviour of a small number of out-of-control youth.
At the same time, communities are also experiencing the negative impact of illegal drugs, especially in schools and the resulting instances of property crimes and theft. Indeed, in many cases, fighting the criminal element takes a coordinated effort, uniting many voices and incorporating the ideas of both experts and lay people. That is why, in May of last year, I announced the creation of a minister's task force on safer streets and communities.
The goal of the task force is to look at community programs, government services, legislation and policing best practices across Nova Scotia and in other jurisdictions, to identify and promote programs and actions that are making a positive impact in communities. The task force will identify ways to support communities in their efforts to make improvements and to address situations that have a negative impact on our neighbourhoods. The task force is made up of 25 individuals, all of whom have volunteered their time to this very important task and effort.
I am impressed by the overwhelming knowledge, experience and enthusiasm of those who applied for the membership. It is so encouraging to see these many people interested in building stronger communities for the benefit of their fellow Nova Scotians.
I'd like to thank all these individuals for the hard work they have put into this project and for their continued work on behalf of all Nova Scotians. Because of the large response, regional subcommittees will also be created to support the task force. Late last week the task force concluded a series of meetings that had been held across this province - in total, 40-plus regional meetings as well as the focus groups.
The task force will now work to study what they have learned from the people of Nova Scotia. They will take this input, along with the review of successful programs and legislation in other jurisdictions to consider how we can complement and enhance our existing programs. The end result will be a provincial crime prevention strategy.
Another priority for the year will be continued improvement of the infrastructure of the justice system. Justice is one of the largest tenants in government, occupying highly-specialized space. Major infrastructure initiatives include continued planning and construction of the Lunenburg County Justice Centre and the Yarmouth Justice Centre. I know that community members in Lunenburg and Yarmouth are keen participants in the development of these facilities and are looking forward to the new level of service that will be provided at these centres.
For the first time in these communities, all justice-related services will be under one roof in modern facilities. We look forward to renovating the New Glasgow Justice Centre
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and we're developing proposals to address aging correctional facilities in northern Nova Scotia.
The security of our facilities is critical to the safety of both staff and clients. We commenced a review of court facilities across the province to examine our security policies and procedures. While we routinely assess our security practices, this review will provide a thorough analysis of our procedures to ensure we are taking all necessary steps to protect the people in our facilities. Consultation is a major element of the project and we have sought the input of the judiciary, lawyers, staff, public, police and facility users.
All Nova Scotia should have access to safe and timely legal services. My department is committed to improving our ability to provide services in French with a number of initiatives underway in this area. French services, including support for French trials, continue to be available for all criminal cases. If a French-speaking person wants to access court services in French and no French-speaking staff are present, court staff will work with the French-speaking staff in other locations to provide service in French.
New initiatives in this area include the hiring of a departmental French services coordinator. A coordinator began in August and will work closely with our existing French Language Services Committee. We are also starting French language training for several staff members this Fall. All of these activities are directed at ensuring Nova Scotians are able to access services in both official languages. We will continue to work to expand French Language Services in our department and in areas where we feel it could be of benefit.
We are also working to ensure Nova Scotians have access to legal services when they need them, regardless of their financial situation. This year's budget includes an additional $475,000 for legal aid services. These new funds will help hundreds more Nova Scotians gain access to legal services. New funding will also ensure speedier trials and resolution of issues in the courts. This investment is another demonstration of our commitment to legal aid in this province. The level of provincial funding continues to grow, quickly surpassing the federal contribution. At one time, legal aid was cost-shared by the federal and provincial governments. Now, Nova Scotia provides far more funding for this vital service. I continue to press my federal counterparts to restore 50/50 funding which would have a huge impact on our ability to provide legal aid to vulnerable Nova Scotians.
Another critical services program provided to Nova Scotians is the Maintenance Enforcement Program. This program began in 1996 to address the difficulties experienced by spouses and children who were not receiving their court-ordered maintenance payments. Currently, the Maintenance Enforcement Program in Nova Scotia has a 78 per cent collection rate. This rate compares favourably with other Canadian jurisdictions. We have also made improvements to enhance services to our clients. This includes the development of a reciprocal unit so that all reciprocal cases out of province will be managed by the central
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unit. We are in the final stages of transferring the cases in from other offices across the province.
We are also in contact with other Canadian jurisdictions and have received updates on our files. In addition, we are reviewing all the files we are enforcing for other jurisdictions as we transfer them into this unit. Having this function handled centrally instead of spread out across the province should improve service for our clients. We have also added more staff to work on enforcing these orders and are conducting a review of all files to remove those which are no longer active, allowing us to dedicate our resources more effectively.
The Maintenance Enforcement Program has a significant impact on the lives of Nova Scotians involved in the maintenance orders. We have made a number of program and legislative improvements since it was introduced 10 years ago and we continue to work toward ensuring we have the best system possible. We are also undertaking the evaluation of another critical process for Nova Scotians. The Domestic Violence Intervention Act, which has been in force since April 2003, allows victims to apply for a 30-day emergency protection order. We are conducting an evaluation of the Act and its related processes, gauging its effectiveness in protecting victims of domestic violence.
The Nova Scotia Public Prosecution Service works hard for the people of this province, representing the public interest in criminal proceedings. Let me remind you that Nova Scotia's Public Prosecution Service was established in 1990 under the Public Prosecutions Act as the first independent prosecution service in Canada. It employs 81 Crown Attorneys and has a total staff of 151 in 19 offices across the province. Our Crown handles about 40,000 Criminal Code charges every year. Last year these included more than 30 murders and attempted murders, more than 300 robberies, 300 sexual assaults, about 1,300 break-and-enters and about 3,300 thefts. It prosecuted these cases on a budget of approximately $15 million.
In addition to prosecuting all Criminal Code offences in Nova Scotia, the Public Prosecution Service is responsible for prosecuting cases involving violations of provincial Statutes. Last year the Public Prosecution Service prosecuted bout 4,500 such cases. PPS also appeals decisions made by the courts where the service determines the court has made an error in law. Last year the Public Prosecution Service was involved in 39 appeals. Since its establishment over 15 years ago, it has prosecuted cases that have garnered national attention and controversy to be sure.
As a service, the Public Prosecution Service delivers quality front-line prosecution services and continues to sharpen its skills and expertise in major and complex cases. With regard to our hard-working team of Crown Attorneys, I remind you that February 2000 saw a labour relations milestone. An agreement was reached with the Nova Scotia Crown Attorneys Association on a salary-setting mechanism. With that agreement in place, the government and the Crown Attorneys Association are free to negotiate annual salary
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increases. Continuing education for full-time and per diem Crown Attorneys as well as support staff remain a priority in order to enhance the level of expertise within the PPS and the resulting quality of prosecution services.
More than $150,000 was spent on education and training during the fiscal year. Specifically, the Public Prosecution Service funded the attendance of Crown Attorneys at the Federation of Law Societies National Criminal Law Program; funded the Crown Attorney annual conference and the Public Prosecution Service support staff annual seminar; funded the participation of several Crown Attorneys at the Ontario Crown Attorneys Summer School Program, a valuable professional development opportunity made available to the PPS through the kind co-operation of the Ontario Ministry of the Attorney General. As well, it funded an advocacy training program for new and per diem Crown Attorneys. It continues to train PPS staff in the use of the prosecution and information composite system; continues to provide training to all Crown Attorneys on the youth criminal justice matters at both Fall and Spring conferences. It continued additional training as required on new PPS policies, including those related to the findings of the Nunn Commission, early findings of guilt, calling the evidence regarding responsible persons and transfer orders. It provided training to Crown Attorneys on the government's family allowance initiative. It supported the requirements of the Education Development Committee to ensure that the Public Prosecution staff received required training.
The PPS also participates at the national level. The Director of Public Prosecutions continues to meet regularly with heads of prosecutions from jurisdictions across Canada to share information and to collaborate on common initiatives.
Let me now turn to the challenges facing Nova Scotia's Public Prosecution Service. Major cases require extensive work by Crown Attorneys preparing a case for court. There are often complex Charter challenges to the proceedings. There are usually dozens of witnesses to be interviewed and prepared for the experience of giving evidence in court. There are always expert witness reports to be studied and digested and more and more often DNA evidence is introduced in court requiring extensive preparation by Crown counsel.
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Major cases are complex and high profile. Public safety and the public perception of the justice system are influenced by the outcome of these cases. The Public Prosecution Service makes it a practice to assign at least two Crown Attorneys to each murder case, at least one being a senior Crown Attorney. This is essential in order to professionally respond to the demands of these difficult cases. This past year PPS was involved in providing the Nunn Commission of Inquiry with testimony specifically surrounding the release of a young man who was responsible for the car crash that killed Theresa McEvoy. The PPS also provided the commission with testimony on youth crime and the prosecution of young offenders in Nova Scotia generally.
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Several recommendations of the Nunn Commission focused on the operation of the Public Prosecution Service. One of these is the recommendation to hire two additional Crown Attorneys to be assigned to Youth Court in Halifax and in Sydney. This process is well underway and the additional Crown Attorneys should be in place within the next four to six weeks. Youth criminal justice has been and will remain an important focus for the Public Prosecution Service. PPS will continue to work with Justice partners to ensure that the youth criminal justice matters are dealt with effectively and efficiently.
The PPS's early resolution practice in the Halifax area has experienced success. A senior Crown Attorney is assigned to review files as they come in, to flag those which look as though they may be easily resolved or even discontinued. A letter is placed in the file from the Crown outlining an acceptable sentence in the event of a guilty plea. The Crown's position is made known to the accused through the disclosure process and may encourage an early resolution.
Government initiatives to combat organized crime are expected to result in an increase in the number of major prosecutions. The service must have the resources to respond to the demands of these major prosecutions. Some major or specialized prosecutions are handled by the members of the service's Special Prosecutions Section. Such prosecutions include complex fraud cases, historical sexual assaults, cyber crime cases, child pornography cases, provincial regulatory offences and Aboriginal law cases.
The Nova Scotia Public Prosecution Service has a Crown Attorney dedicated exclusively to the prosecution of provincial regulatory offences. This initiative was designed to enhance the Public Prosecution Service's expertise in provincial regulatory prosecutions. This Crown Attorney is concentrating initially on occupational health and safety offences and serves as an in-house resource for other Nova Scotia Crown Attorneys involved in occupational health and safety and other regulatory offence prosecutions.
The decision to assign a Crown Attorney exclusively to regulatory offence prosecutions was a joint resolve of the Public Prosecution Service and the Department of Environment and Labour. Each organization wanted to enhance the way these cases are handled, both at the investigation and prosecution stages. The Crown Attorneys of the Special Prosecutions Section do not have regular court assignments and thus have the time necessary to devote to such prosecutions.
The permanent staff complement of the Special Prosecutions Section entails a Chief Crown Attorney and eight Crown Attorneys. This complement can handle only some of the major or specialized prosecutions conducted throughout each year. When such cases are conducted by Crown Attorneys other than those in the Special Prosecutions Section, they cannot also be responding to the demands of a regular court responsibility. This difficulty necessitates backfilling the Crown Attorney and the regular court schedules for days, weeks,
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months or even years, as has happened in the past. Therefore, the service must use outside counsel hired on a per diem or term employment basis to backfill, in response to major cases.
With regard to day to day operations and the need, historically, for regular per diem assistance, the Halifax region has experienced success in dramatically reducing the need for per diem Crowns. This has been done with an innovative approach to court scheduling and has resulted in significant cost savings in Halifax. The service's policy of assigning at least two Crown Attorneys to all murder cases and the anticipated increase in the number of major cases, as well as additional Crown Attorneys to handle youth criminal justice matters, will increase the service's staffing costs in fiscal 2007 and 2008.
The service continues to handle cases involving alleged illegal hunting and logging by Aboriginal persons. Litigation of Aboriginal rights involves the presentation of extensive historical, pedagogical and archeological evidence. Presentation of such evidence involves calling numerous expert witnesses. The Crown must pay the professional fees of these witnesses, as well as their costs while testifying.
To properly respond to the demands of these cases, further research is required. The service, in coordination with other agencies of the provincial government, will be called upon to fund the research. The conduct of the research necessitates engaging experts at considerable cost. It also reminds that federal legislation, in response to the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks on the U.S., grants additional powers to the police, identifies new offences and establishes new court procedures. Thus, the service could be called upon to provide pre-charge advice to the police in relation to counter-terrorism investigations, liase with other provincial prosecution services, the federal prosecution service and international prosecutors on counter-terrorism investigations and prosecutions, provide advice to the Minister of Justice on this matter and participate in the conduct of lengthy prosecutions or complex challenges to the new legislative provisions can be anticipated.
To address these additional demands the service has assigned one senior Crown Attorney to all these additional responsibilities. This Crown Attorney attends training sessions and interprovincial meetings to coordinate counter-terrorism efforts.
Finally, the province's Justice of the Peace system operates 24 hours a day, seven days a week and continues to demand Crown Attorneys be on duty after hours and on weekends.
As you can see, there are many, many challenges facing the Nova Scotia Public Prosecution Service this year and in the coming years but I am confident the Public Prosecution Service will be able to meet these challenges and the continuing contribution to public safety made by the Public Prosecution Service can never be taken for granted or understated.
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As all members would know, I was appointed Minister responsible for Military Relations last October. Coincidentally, it was almost immediately following a presentation to Cabinet about the Department of National Defence and the Canadian Forces Nova Scotia and its military operations in Afghanistan. The presentation was given by Rear Admiral Dean McFadden, the Senior Naval Officer on the Atlantic Coast and the Commander of Joint Task Force Atlantic, which comprises all land, sea and air elements in Atlantic Canada. Admiral McFadden was accompanied by the heads of the Army and Air Force, Brigadier General Richard Parsons, Commander of the Land Force Atlantic Area, and Colonel D.A. Neil, Commander of Maritime Air Component Atlantic.
My appointment came out of the realization that the Department of National Defence constitutes not just a major economic driver in our province but is also a major social contributor. The military is the largest single employer in the province, at 14,500 military, civilian and reservist employees, which represented 3.5 per cent of province's economy in 2005, at over $1 billion a year. That's larger than the real domestic product of the agriculture, forestry and fishing industries combined.
If you combine the civilian and military members of the Canadian Armed Forces in Nova Scotia with their primary family members, they total an estimated 40,000 people located in 18 urban and rural locations throughout the province. The military has been an integral part of Nova Scotia since 1749. They have, and continue to make, significant economic contributions to the province and richly contribute to the social fabric as well. For example, you only have to look at the profound contributions to the Swissair search and rescue operations in 1998 and the Navy-led recovery operations for the 229 passengers who were killed in that terrible accident, or the incredible support which Canadian Forces in Nova Scotia gave to the 2,400 Kosovo refugees who arrived in Nova Scotia in 1999 to escape the tyranny of Serbian President Slobodan Milosevic.
We should never take for granted the many people who have benefitted from military search and rescue operations by the Navy, Army and Air Force or the many reservists who volunteered to assist when the ice storms paralyzed southern Ontario, Quebec and New Brunswick. The impact of the military goes far beyond these operations. When Canadian Forces personnel retire, they generally leave the military while they are still young, spending their pension cheques in Nova Scotia, volunteering in our communities and bringing a vast array of professional skills and experiences that are of value to our workforce. For example, medical professionals who have served in search and rescue efforts or in combat situations like Afghanistan, have acquired skills and experiences in trauma care that would be hard to gain in the quiet and safe confines of our province. These are the skills which are very transferable, important and welcome in this province.
In recognition that the military contributes greatly to the social and economic fabric of our province, we are working to help make Nova Scotia the best place in Canada for the military to live, work and do business and raise families. We are doing this in many ways.
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On November 8th the province conducted a Military Appreciation Rally to recognize the many contributions which our military and its personnel contribute to the people of this province and to boost the morale of our troops. Several hundred public servants, students and Nova Scotians joined in the tribute to military members.
On November 23rd, the law protecting reservists' jobs and education standing was introduced and passed in the Legislature. The law was introduced by the NDP and passed with the co-operation and collaboration of the Opposition, all within 17 days. As a consequence of the law, we currently have a team of representatives from several departments - Education, Labour, Economic Development, Justice, and Intergovernmental Affairs - who are working in earnest to prepare regulations that will bring further specificity to the law to ensure that it functions according to its intent. Once the regulations have been created, we'll move to have the law proclaimed.
Nova Scotia is the first province in Canada to have introduced such legislation, with four other provinces - Manitoba, Saskatchewan, New Brunswick and B.C. - currently following our lead. Our initiative has also been noticed and appreciated by the Canadian Forces Liaison Council, the agency at National Defence Headquarters that is responsible for negotiating military policies with employers who have staff members in the reserves. As a consequence, in early June I will attend a special ceremony in Ottawa during which this province will be presented with a special award in recognition of our efforts to protect the employment and student enrolment of reservists who volunteered to serve Canada in deployments such as Afghanistan.
The work that the government is doing to build on its positive relations with the military in Nova Scotia is supported by an interdepartmental committee called the Defence Forum, a group of public servants from 14 relevant departments that are contributing to this effort. At present a great deal of the focus of the Defence Forum is on building relationships with key military stakeholders and learning from them. It is our belief that only through understanding the Canadian military's policy, their issues and needs, that we can have a meaningful relationship with them and work together to encourage social and economic progress in our province.
Another important focus of the forum is its military and family support initiative. This initiative seeks to better understand the unique needs of military personnel and their families and how we might better serve them, especially in times of conflict. I should mention that this is not a case of our government trying to duplicate or take on the job of the federal government but, rather, is an attempt to ensure, as best we can that the provincial services we offer respond to the needs and the values of our military related public.
One of the functions of the forum is to share the knowledge that is acquiring to all forum members across the provincial government. I think of it as a process of cross-pollination, a process that leads to more informed decision making within departments and
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that helps us develop the big picture and a corporate approach to our dealings with the military. A good example of this cross-pollination occurred recently when the defence forum invited the executive director of the military family resource centre to talk to the province's interdepartmental community development policy advisory group about how the situation in Afghanistan is affecting families and communities throughout Canada. As a consequence, the community development policy advisory group now shares a common and much deeper appreciation for the issues and challenges faced by military personnel and their families.
One thing I should mention is the Afghan situation has brought a great deal of focus and immediacy to our work. The situation is very fluid and things are moving very quickly. At this moment we estimate there are somewhere between 400 and 600 Nova Scotians deployed to Afghanistan. This is not a static measure, we know that these numbers will change as Nova Scotians are deployed and returned until the end of Canada's natal commitment in 2009. As a result we need to understand the long-term implications of this situation for Nova Scotia and we need the military and military families to understand that we support them in their military mission.
One way we can do this is to demonstrate our support to the family members who remain in Nova Scotia during the deployment of military members. The Chief of Staff of Joint Task Force Atlantic recently reiterated this point in his comment to us saying, support to military families is as critical to the success of our mission as the preparation and training of our personnel. Our understanding of how all of this will work is evolving as we learn our way into this but, I can tell you this, we have been successful in creating a strong provincial team that works co-operatively on issues. I'd like to take this opportunity to thank all those departments and their staff who are contributing to this effort. We've established strong working relationships with external stakeholders and where relevant and appropriate we're playing a mass-making role connecting our stakeholders and individual departments or programs.
[6:45 p.m.]
In doing this we are way ahead of the rest of Canada in taking initiative to ensure that military members and their families don't fall through the cracks. I am pleased and proud to say that when it comes to military relations Nova Scotia is a leader in Canada and has consequently differentiated itself from the competition. We are the first province to have a Minister of Military Relations and a designated high level contact point for the military. We are the first province of Canada to have a cross-departmental military focused provincial body, we are the first province in Canada to protect reservists when they volunteer to serve our country and we are the first province in Canada to proactively look at how the military and their families are supported in public service in times of conflict. This is with a view towards making improvements within our jurisdiction and resources.
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As a result of the leadership and commitment we're demonstrating we're getting very favourable reaction from the military. Military recognizes it now has a conduit to the Nova Scotia Government through me and the Defence Forum, and is coming to us with both their issues and potential opportunities. They're also promoting Nova Scotia's approach to doing business with them across Canada. The appointment of a minister responsible, structure of a defence forum, and the creation of reservist legislation are things they value and they want to have emulated in other provinces. Finally, the military will be honouring the province, as I said earlier, on June 7th for work that's being done for reservists in this province.
In closing I appreciate this opportunity to view some of the activities of my department to present the highlights of this year's budget. I, along with the department staff, look forward to an active year as we work with our partners on ensuring Nova Scotians can be confident in the safety and security of their communities. I'd like to close as well by thanking all of the staff of the department. Right across this province close to 1,000 staff in the department are hard at work ensuring the smooth administration of justice and improving the safety of our communities. Each person has an important role to play in making sure that we provide high quality services. I have been very impressed and I would say we're blessed with the dedication and enthusiasm I've witnessed since becoming the Minister of the Department of Justice.
I'd also like to take the opportunity to thank Department of Justice former Deputy Minister Doug Keefe for his hard work and dedication through his 28 years with the department. Many would know Doug retired in early March and on many occasions he had a lot of advice for me. Speaking on behalf of the department I wish him all the best in his retirement. I look forward to the members' questions and comments and welcome the opportunity to share information once again on our very important programs and services. Thank you.
MR. CHAIRMAN: The honourable Leader of the Opposition.
MR. DARRELL DEXTER: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I guess I'll begin with Military Relations. The first thing I think I have to say is that I just received word that it looks like we lost another two soldiers in Afghanistan. It is a very sobering and sad fact of life these days, so many families across this country have been affected by the losses in Afghanistan.
I wanted to say I welcome Mr. Dunn sitting at the table. I'm sure the minister knows that Tim Dunn and I go back 30 years or thereabouts, hard to believe, and once sat across the desk from each other at the Department of National Defence Office of Information in Esquimalt, when we were both employed working for a fellow by the name of Commander Lorrie, and we had the opportunity to just speak about that, before we started this evening.
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I must say that I did not know that the reservist legislation was going to end up as a cause for an award. This is very positive news and I was pleased to see the number of provinces that have decided to follow the lead of Nova Scotia with respect to this legislation. It is something that I am personally very proud of and I'm very proud of the province taking the initiative to go forward with this.
We discussed this earlier today, actually, with respect to when this legislation will be actually proclaimed. I think you said that you looked forward to that taking place and you said seven or eight days, is that what I was to understand?
MR. SCOTT: That was what the Premier said, within seven or eight days. You'd asked the question . . .
MR. DEXTER: I didn't mean to confuse you with the Premier, but seven or eight days, he was right. We're talking in the next very short while we'll have the proclamation and the regulations?
MR. SCOTT: The issue of Military Relations to me has developed into something a lot more than I had even anticipated when the Premier asked me to take on the role. You are right, Mr. Dexter, the issue around that legislation that you put forward and that was supported by the government and the Liberal Party certainly is something we all supported and we want to see it enacted as soon as possible but it led us into an area where it took some very in-depth consultation and discussions with many folks, those in labour obviously, employers, educational providers, the military itself.
So the regulations, there are two departments that are heavily involved in the regulations; one is the Department of Labour and one is the Department of Education. My understanding is that within the last few days the regulations for Labour will probably come before the Department of Education ones because there are some impacts that we did not anticipate in regard to whether it is community colleges or, in fact, universities, there are a whole lot of issues.
Staff have been working very, very hard and I know that it is something that we all wanted to see happen sooner or later. Staff have been working very, very hard to try to get these issues dealt with as soon as possible. I know Tim and other staff have been very much involved on a daily basis, trying to make it happen as soon as possible.
The Premier made that commitment today of the proclamation within, I think he said seven or eight days, so I'm sure that will take place.
MR. DEXTER: Thank you. One of the other things that has been a bit of - as you would know, I've introduced, I think now, three resolutions with respect to this matter and that is the reconstituting of the Halifax Rifles. You probably know that General Amy has
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been to the House many, many times with respect to the reconstitution of the Halifax Rifles as a Reserve Unit. I'm just wondering if the department or if you have had a look at this and whether or not you've had any conversations with your colleagues on the federal level about the reconstitution of this unit and if something stands in the way, if you know what it is.
MR. SCOTT: My understanding is that, I guess nationally with the military, the national level has decided not to do that this time. I know on many occasions I've heard you bring that forward to the Legislature. You know it's certainly something we can bring to their attention but, as you would appreciate, it's not something we have control over, but my understanding is that it's not something that they have decided they want to do at this time.
MR. DEXTER: Well, that's unfortunate. Maybe when you're in Ottawa and receiving that award, you could make another pitch at the same time and tell them that this is a good idea as well. Actually, for me, it's more a matter of pride in that particular unit. I think it's a symbol of the province's distinguished units and I just encourage you not to give up the fight on the Halifax Rifles.
MR. SCOTT: Absolutely, and as I was just reminded, the Fusiliers, of which Corporal Stannix was a member, is the one who I guess at this time plays an active role here in this area, but certainly we can take that up with our federal counterparts.
MR. DEXTER: That was really all I was going to ask with respect to that part of your responsibilities - at least for now.
MR. SCOTT: Thank you for mentioning that. Tim Dunn, who is the advisor for Military Relations, is doing a fantastic job and has a lot of experience and background. He has done a great job. Thank you, Tim.
MR. TIM DUNN: My pleasure, sir.
MR. DEXTER: I think you were in the Golan for awhile, is that not right?
MR. DUNN: Well, Golan was part of my area of responsibility, I was in Egypt, which looked after the Egypt, Israel and the Golan Heights.
MR. DEXTER: I remember that because that's where you came back from, I think, when I first met you.
MR. DUNN: That's right, yes.
MR. DEXTER: I'll just move on to talk about safer communities and neighbourhoods which is a topic that I know you and I are both very concerned with. I know that my former colleague, Kevin Deveaux, you will remember that we introduced, in fact, a safer
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communities and neighbourhood bill. I think we were a little ahead of the government in the introduction of that bill maybe, I don't remember the actual time frame, but I remember that was the case. I remember that there was a great deal in common with the two bills when they came forward. So I was pleased to see that they did go forward.
My last recollection though was that after the director of the Public Safety Investigation Unit was hired that you had said at that time, I believe it was in February, that this unit was going to be operational in April. I assume from what you said at the beginning that that date has now been pushed back, has it?
MR. SCOTT: Actually the bill was proclaimed on January 7th. We have hired a director and a manager and they have just finished the hiring of the three investigators. Renovations are underway now in their location, just finished from my understanding, and there was an update that the actual space for their location is being renovated. I know they have been actively dialoguing with another jurisdiction. In fact, I was in Saskatchewan last year and met with the minister, met with their group, and learned of the great works being done there and we would expect it would be the same here. The area they're going to be housed in has just finished being renovated. They've all been hired and they are in the process now of their introduction for the work we will be expecting them to do.
MR. DEXTER: That will be the operational staff, will it, the director, the manager, and the three investigators, that's what you expect the staffing complement to be?
MR. SCOTT: Yes, at this point.
MR. DEXTER: And that, of course, leads me directly to the next question which is whether or not there has been any analysis done of the number of properties that will make up the scope of the work? Do you have any idea how this staffing complement will meet the need that you anticipate?
MR. SCOTT: As I mentioned earlier about being in Saskatchewan last year and meeting with the minister and the leader of their team, and talked, there are a lot of similarities because, you know, the size of Saskatchewan, the fact that there are two main urban areas, the fact that the population is quite similar to Nova Scotia. So we, more or less, based our team and our concept on theirs. They have had great success. The size of their team really has worked well and is working well there. We basically mirrored theirs and then we will do an assessment as we go along to see whether, in fact, it is adequate, whether we need more. That would be, obviously, for another budget time.
I know in Saskatchewan, their uptake the first year compared to the second year was quite dramatic. The request they had for assistance increased quite dramatically the second year. So this will be a learning process for us, as well, and I know they have been in contact,
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they have had discussions, so we will be seeing over the next months how they respond to the complaints and concerns they have across the province and see where we go from there.
MR. DEXTER: It would be expected, I guess, that once the unit becomes better understood by the public and once they realize that resource exists, that there will be a greater degree of uptake by the public in terms of requests for assistance.
MR. SCOTT: In Saskatchewan, I'm pretty impressed. They have a nice brochure they put out. They do advertise within the public. They put out information. They have Web sites. They take the opportunity to ensure the public is well aware of who they are, what they do, what they are able to do and how they can be accessed and where they can go. I'm expecting we will be doing the same here.
[7:00 p.m.]
MR. DEXTER: I will move on from that to legal aid, then. I know that you had talked about additional allocation, I think of some $490,000 or something of that measure, into the legal aid budget. Of course, part of this relates to the McEvoy recommendations as well because access to justice and case management and moving them through the system requires that counsel be available. Are you comfortable that the currently laid budget is sufficient to be able to meet the challenges in this regard?
MR. SCOTT: The current complement, or the current funding, I guess, for legal aid is something that I heard right across this country. We met in Newfoundland and Labrador and all the federal, provincial and territorial ministers met. In fact, at the end of our deliberations, after two days, it was agreed that the number one priority for all provincial and the territorial ministers was to encourage Ottawa to restore the 50-50 funding that we once knew across this country. I believe at this point, what is the formula? Less than 20 per cent is paid by the federal government at this time, which we don't think is acceptable. As we continue to put more people in the system, police officers, for example, as we continue to put more prosecutors in the system, it only makes sense that we are going to require additional services in regard to legal advice and opinion and legal support, in fact in legal aid.
In the last two budgets, we have increased the legal aid budget by $2 million. I'm reminded that was all provincial money. So $2 million over the last two years increase. Is it ever enough? It's what we feel at this time is the appropriate amount but, again, we continue to encourage the federal government to restore that funding that we once knew that would ensure that legal aid enhancement continues.
MR. DEXTER: People may not think about this but ensuring that there is an appropriate level of defence counsel for people who are charged is integral to the operation of the system of justice. I know a lot of the legal aid lawyers, I know how hard they work and what their caseloads are like. They are pretty phenomenal and, of course, for the right to
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counsel to be real, the resources have to exist in order to be able to provide not just someone who is there in court with you on the day but somebody who has the adequate opportunity to prepare and for those who are charged with crimes, they face the weight of the state. So they have a right to a fair defence.
I know that at law school, in the Charter, you were entitled to a lawyer, which I always thought was an interesting guarantee when in many cases the resources that were really there on the legal aid side seemed to be insufficient to adequately provide for that.
I guess I asked you if you felt that this was an adequate resource for this area but let me just follow up what you said; have you had discussions with the Minister of Justice, the federal minister, in regard to this?
MR. SCOTT: Yes, I have, and again, we continue to impress upon them the need to restore that funding. As I said earlier, collectively as provincial ministers, we identified that as our top priority. The federal minister is aware of that, they know that and we're waiting to see what their response will be.
I just want to make a comment that you mentioned about the availability of the proper advice or legal aid. I know back in my old policing days, I always felt the system worked a lot smoother when that service was available, I mean it just makes sense that when that service is available to someone who is before the law, before the courts, that they have that opportunity to have legal advice within a timely manner. I mean it made the system work so much smoother.
I do appreciate it and I've committed to the Bar Society here, at a meeting with them, and as well to other folks, that we, as a province, will continue to work with our colleagues across the country to again try to get that funding restored, which will go a long way to helping us, enhancing the legal aid system here in Nova Scotia.
MR. DEXTER: Absolutely, there is nothing more frustrating, I think, for a lawyer than to have an unrepresented person on the other side of - whether it is a civil case or a criminal case, for that matter.
I guess I had forgotten this so I'll correct the oversight now; I wanted to thank you for sending your departmental staff over to discuss both the Provincial Court Act and the omnibus bill with respect to the various changes before the House. It was informative to understand why the changes were being made. You will remember when the bill before the House came forward, I had a number of questions. I just will say for the record that I am disappointed that the decision to go forward with an amalgamation of the Family Court and the Provincial Court was the only option you were left with.
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I asked at the time whether or not it wasn't better to look to the unified Family Court model that exists here now and operates, to be able to deal with all of those matters in one court. I understand that the federal government has just made it clear that they are not prepared to move forward any further on those initiatives. Is that your understanding?
MR. SCOTT: We would prefer the unified court system across the province as well. In fact that was another issue that we raised at our provincial-territorial-federal meetings. The message we got from Ottawa, the signal we're getting, is that the federal government is not - at least at this time - interested in allocating those additional positions, which we believe would offer equal service across the province.
You know better than anyone, when it comes to the division of courts, where someone goes to court for one type of a hearing or type of procedure and had to go to a different court, for example, for child custody, this doesn't make any sense. We were trying within our own abilities here, with our own monies and our own resources, to try to make the system a bit more streamlined and try to see if there was a way that we could, particularly when it comes to the issue of case processing times, to try to help in that aspect. It is not easy.
Again, the message we're getting from the federal government is that we're not expecting that any time soon.
MR. DEXTER: Well, the reason why it surprised me is because the provincial courts have always been kind of the workhorse of the justice system and there have been considerable delays, as was identified by Justice Nunn. I realize you're layering in more judges but you are also layering in many, many more cases. My concern was that was going to actually increase wait times rather than reducing them.
MR. SCOTT: It wasn't the intent but we appreciate your comments. That was not the intent of the department. The intent to move in that way was to help streamline and if there were opportunities for one court that may have some time where another court didn't, to have judges in both courts that could address both issues. The intent was to try to streamline it and to make processing times faster.
MR. DEXTER: I'm sorry. What time are we at now?
MR. CHAIRMAN: It's 7:08 p.m. and you have 40 minutes.
MR. DEXTER: Thank you. I'm going to touch on a few things, these are kind of short snappers from my perspective. I noticed in the estimates there was a line item under Program Expenses, under Policing and Victim Services for gun control. This would be Page 15.6 if you have your Estimates Book there. I noticed that in 2005-06 and 2006-07, in both cases, the estimates under this line were nil and in 2005-06 $20,000 and then $103,000. I'm just curious about the line item and it's again estimated at zero.
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MR. SCOTT: The licensing side of the federal gun issue is administered by the province but the province gets reimbursed for the service. In other words the federal government pays us to administer their licensing program. What that's showing there is that we're actually making money on the program.
MR. DEXTER: That's the in-money is it?
MR. SCOTT: Yes.
MR. DEXTER: So the out-money would be identified somewhere else in some other line.
MR. SCOTT: You're asking where it's actually showing the expenditure?
MR. DEXTER: Yes. It's a small item and it seemed funny to me that . . .
MR. SCOTT: Apparently, it would be right here. Page 15.10.
MR. DEXTER: Okay.
MR. SCOTT: We are expecting next year that the expenditures should be about $910,000 and we will recover the whole thing. Where you're showing that extra amount that's actually where the province has recovered more.
MR. DEXTER: Okay, that's good then. This is another item. You might recall that I wrote to you back in February, I believe it was the 13th, about the situation facing provincial civil constables - a lot of people know them as process servers. At the time, and I made note of this, when you wrote me back you said, I have asked senior management to consider the subject matter raised in your letter and provide me with recommendations. I didn't really know what that meant so perhaps do you - looking at the fact that other provinces do deem them as peace officers.
MR. SCOTT: The process servers - and correct me if I'm wrong - for all intents and purposes of their serving of documents are peace officers. If you look at the Criminal Code, the identification of peace officer is there. They are certainly, along with many others, wardens and I forget what else under the definition of a peace officer, will be included as well. Part of their condition of their appointment by the province we would not want to have anyone believe that there was any intent for individuals to be carrying any type of prohibited weapon or, at least that's the way it is now that the regulations and everything are set up. That is certainly the intent of the department. I actually support that and I share that with those folks that I think, at least now, there is a danger in just authorizing everyone to carry a prohibited weapon because if you think about it, the liability of it, of what could happen.
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The other thing I want to mention is that police officers who have a continuing training program, they are trained in everything from the mildest type of situation, the verbal contact, and there are escalating levels of force that are used up to and including, obviously lethal force, but in that mix is the use of OC spray. I guess what I was indicating in the letter back to you was, I understand what the situation is today but however, I have asked the department, we should take a look at the whole issue around this. It's obviously something that came to light that we weren't aware of before. We weren't even aware that these individuals were carrying this type of prohibited weapon.
So what I have asked the department is let's get the information on this, let's look at other jurisdictions. Let's look at the whole issue of process servers in the province, which I will say that they do a lot of work for the province as well as a lot of lawyers' offices. So they provide a great service. But let's look at the whole issue of what they do, what we want as far as our mandate in regard to them being issued a licence and let's look at other areas across the country and let's decide whether we want to maintain the status quo or maybe we want to look at some other options. That's why, in the response I sent back to you, was that I have asked staff to have a look at this and at the end of the day we may decide to change it, we may not.
MR. DEXTER: Well, I will look forward to hearing back from you again and whatever advice you receive on it, I just make the point. I'm sure you are aware of this because you would have had contact with many process servers, I'm sure, in your former capacity. But process servers, again, are an integral part of the system that we have, the way our courts work. They are often sent out to serve documents on people who are not very pleased to receive them and sometimes make their best efforts not to receive them. So they serve a very important function. I think they deserve to know that their positions are respected and people understand that this is an important component of the way our system works. There might be better systems but this is the way our system works and they form part of the function of them.
[7:15 p.m.]
MR. SCOTT: Again, going back to my own experience, I know process servers in the area where I came from, if they were going, for example, to a home where they expected there could be a problem, or even they weren't sure, they would always contact, or in a lot of cases, I guess, they would contact the local police in the jurisdiction and the police would accompany them, which we welcomed. A lot of times they would call and maybe it wasn't a good time, we were busy, we could put it off to the next evening or afternoon or whatever, but the police appreciated that because obviously you can avoid a situation that may unnecessarily happen that there is no need to happen.
Again, the issue that brought you to the letter and the issue around the OC spray, it is a prohibited weapon. I think we have to be very careful and cautious of who we authorize
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to carry that and in what situations and do we want, because basically someone can come into the Department of Justice - I think it's $25 to make an application and if they don't have a criminal record, can be authorized to be a process server. So I just think we have to be very careful of how we proceed with this and make sure we do the right thing, that's all.
MR. DEXTER: I wanted to touch on another thing that I had raised with you before and that is the whole issue of mental health courts. As you may know, and I have certainly mentioned this before, I had the opportunity to go to Newfoundland and Labrador and have a look at the system that they have put in place there. I can tell you that I talked with the, I guess he was the director of the program, along with the social worker. He was explaining to me that the prosecution service is one of their biggest boosters with respect to this particular program and that their success rate has been very high. I think they had one case of recidivism since they began the program. So you have to understand that because the program is designed to be effective, that the intake workers are very careful about who comes into the program and making sure that they're suitable for the program in the first place and, therefore, they truly are a diversion out of the regular system. It saves not only the courts a heck of a lot of work but it also serves the individual which is the ultimate goal of the system in the first place.
MR. SCOTT: I appreciate that and I know you've brought that to my attention on several occasions. I know you have a real concern about some things we've seen over the last year and you mentioned the word diversion, and that's exactly what we're working towards. I'm sure you appreciate, as well, I mean whatever we do, whatever changes there are, it requires a buy-in from all stakeholders. The suggestion is that there are some problems and to fix it is probably the easy part, it's how do we get to where we want to be to ensure that people, and I've seen them in my own career where people will land in court only because there was really nowhere else for them to go.
Everybody is frustrated because they're not quite sure where they fit, they don't fit here, they don't fit there. So we'll get them into court and, hopefully, the court can order some sort of an assessment or get them somewhere. Then lots of times, as we've seen, it has not happened but you mentioned diversion because the diversion process is exactly what - there's a cross-departmental effort underway right now in Health, Community Services and Justice, and that's exactly what we're working towards, is the diversion process. I know in the House when you asked the question, it's hard to get to where you want to be, but I can tell you that folks are working very, very hard to try to resolve this and the diversion process is exactly where we are.
MR. DEXTER: When I spoke to them they said this was a great process because it had the weight of the court behind it and, you know, these people don't want to go to jail. What they want is access to services and they want to have productive lives. What this does is bring to bear all of those resources to allow that to happen. Anyway, I'm pleased to hear that there is this initiative underway. There are programs in other parts - I was in
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Newfoundland and Labrador, but I understand Ontario, New Brunswick and several jurisdictions in the U.S. also have mental health courts as well.
Before I hand this over to my colleague, the member for Halifax Citadel, I wanted to ask just briefly about the crystal methamphetamine issue and, as you know, we had put forward a number of proposed initiatives to deal with that threat, and I know that there have been some moves made by the police forces and your government since we raised the issue. I wonder if you could tell me what the status of the presence and street use of crystal meth in Nova Scotia is at this point in time? Do you have some idea of that?
MR. SCOTT: And that's another issue that certainly we have been putting a lot of effort into in regard to behind the scenes because you're right, the bill that will be passed talks about the issue of crystal meth and that's what the intent was. Again, in fact, this past week there were several, not only department folks but as well stakeholders from outside, the police and in other areas, who are at the present time developing a drug strategy that will be a provincial drug strategy, that we're also hoping to use some of the information from the task force as well, to help implement that.
The reports I've received from law enforcement is that very small amounts have been reported of crystal meth in this province. In fact, I'm only aware of one occasion and I'm not sure if there have been any other but, you know, it's still something I know law enforcement keeps a very close eye on and try to get as much information as they can to ensure that if it does become a problem, how they respond to it, but everyone is looking forward to the provincial drug strategy being implemented because it talks about not only, as you know, the enforcement but about the prevention, harm reduction, and other issues around that. So it's, again, another cross-department issue that the Department of Justice obviously is a part of, but other departments are very much involved in it as well.
MR. DEXTER: Did you say there was only one instance. Are you referring to trafficking or manufacturing?
MR. SCOTT: One seizure actually where it was homemade, and that's the only one I'm aware of that has been reported to us and usually they keep us pretty up-to-date on those issues. So only one that I'm aware of. I'm not making light of it either by saying it's only one and that I'm not worried about it. I'm just saying we are trying to make sure that we get as much information as it becomes available to ensure that as we move along we are aware of what is happening in the province, to make sure that we are prepared for it.
MR. DEXTER: Could you describe for me if you can any of the specific initiatives that will be included in the provincial drug strategy?
MR. SCOTT: When it comes to the actual strategy itself, Health and Community Services will have a large role to play as well, and they'll have certain sections of the drug
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strategy that they will be empowered to deal with. I can mainly talk about the enforcement part which you are well aware of all the issues we are doing in regard to enforcement, which are all the things we've already talked about here and I've talked about in my opening statements.
One thing I am a big believer in is the fact that the department or law enforcement don't have all the answers and that's why we reached out with a task force and that's why this provincial drug strategy - I didn't want to see it developed before we had an opportunity - the task force is travelling across Nova Scotia and apparently in my mind they have gathered a lot of information. They have gone into focus groups in different communities and they are gathering information as well that they will present back, that we're hoping will form part of that drug strategy.
There are components, enforcement certainly is a big part of it, but there are other things as well, obviously, there is education in schools. So the drug strategy, I believe, will be a wide-ranging policy that will be something we will be looking at over the next while.
MR. DEXTER: When can we expect to see something in the way of a description or policy statement in this regard?
MR. SCOTT: There are ongoing consultations, plus it is my understanding that the task force is going to report back and they will have their final report for me sometime in May. We are hoping to have the draft provincial drug strategy sometime in the summer.
MR. DEXTER: Finally, are there other street drugs out there that you see as being problematic? Is there anything your department sees on the rise that, as legislators, we ought to be concerned with?
MR. SCOTT: I think it is fair to say that in our years growing up the softer drugs were probably the drug of choice at the time and that has changed a lot. There is a lot of harder drugs on the street, absolutely a lot of crack not only in the city but in the smaller areas, that is evident from information we're receiving. That is why we are putting additional money into Criminal Intelligence Nova Scotia because those folks are tasked with gathering all of that information for the police.
Again, when it comes to enforcement, there are two things I think we have to really put a lot of effort into and that's obviously enforcement, but as well, education in schools. There is already deployment of these additional police officers. We are encouraging the recipients of those initial positions to look at school liaison officers, that we can have police back in the schools again to talk to youth and encourage them in regard to making the right choices.
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I guess you asked the question about different types of drugs, there are certainly across this province - and I have heard it and the Premier has heard a lot - in communities about the level of drugs, and that's something that we have indicated quite strongly to those who again are receiving funded positions paid for by the province, to put that emphasis on curbing that drug issue.
MR. DEXTER: Mr. Chairman, I said that was my last question but unfortunately, I'm going to go back on that. I have one more and this actually arises out of something you said earlier, you talked about counter-terrorism advice and the establishment of a position to give pre-charge advice with respect to counter-terrorism. Has your department been called upon, in fact, to give such pre-charge advice?
MR. SCOTT: I think it is fair to say that the Public Prosecution Service is called upon a lot for a lot of different types of advice and obviously, the advice they give is confidential advice. All I can say is on a regular basis the Public Prosecution Service is called upon to provide advice to law enforcement across the province on all types of issues - and all confidential advice.
MR. DEXTER: I didn't ask if you were giving advice on specific matters but just in general whether or not you have been called upon to give advice in that category.
MR. SCOTT: It is in the range or realm of advice that is given in concert, I guess, with a lot of issues.
MR. DEXTER: I'm wiser, but no better informed. Thank you.
MR. CHAIRMAN: The honourable member for Halifax Citadel. The time is 7:28 p.m.
MR. LEONARD PREYRA: Mr. Chairman, yes, I am the member for Halifax Citadel, I'm also the Youth Critic. I have a number of questions relating to that area. In particular, I wanted to look at the McEvoy inquiry and its implications for youth criminal justice. I want to ask the minister, what has been done more specifically on specific recommendations relating to the McEvoy inquiry?
As the minister knows, the McEvoy inquiry made a number of recommendations which the government adopted almost immediately, much to the applause of the community and I think it was a wise thing to do. The McEvoy family, as the minister knows, really wanted a better system rather than revenge and it is to their credit that they've taken that position. I think we would be doing them a great disservice if we didn't follow up on that and try to improve the system.
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The inquiry came up with 34 recommendations, 19 of which directly related to the Department of Justice and I wanted to talk about three or four of them in particular as they related to what I see as the general tone of the McEvoy inquiry, which was to focus more on crime prevention, on turning off the supply of criminals rather than working with measures that related more to punishment. I wanted to look more at what the department is doing in terms of - these are some of the phrases out of the McEvoy inquiry - early identification, early intervention, more effective alternate intervention and better coordination.
[7:30 p.m.]
I would like to start with Recommendation 26, which essentially says that they would like the government to coordinate better, if you don't mind my quoting, "The Province should immediately begin the development and implementation of a public, comprehensive, collaborative, and effective interdepartmental strategy to coordinate its programs, interventions, services, and supports to children and youth at risk and their families, with a particular focus on the prevention of youth crime and a reduction in the likelihood of re-offending of young persons already in conflict with the law." That is a pretty straightforward recommendation.
What the McEvoy inquiry was saying is that there are too many silos in the five or six departments that deal with youth at risk, that the Archie Billard case, the McEvoy case really was an example of people falling between the cracks, that we need to integrate and collaborate and co-operate and navigate and communicate - these are all coming out of McEvoy.
I was at a meeting of the Nova Scotia Criminal Justice Association just a few weeks ago. Many of the departments that were present, people from the department who were present, said that they're really concerned about their ability to collaborate and integrate. As much as they mean well - there is a lot of goodwill - they are worried that not much has been done in a practical way. Mind you, it's not that long ago that these recommendations have come forward and my question is, how do you deal with this interdepartmental lack of coordination? Sometimes it is a problem of delays, sometimes it's a problem of disclosure, what measures have you put in place to deal with Recommendation 26?
MR. SCOTT: Mr. Chairman, that is a very good question. I think we all recognized throughout the Nunn Commission of Inquiry and as a result of the recommendations and I think we all agreed, that in government it is very easy to be concerned about the issues that mainly deal with you and if they're dealing with a different department, then the department is left to deal with them on their own.
I think you have heard the Minister of Community Services mention many times about breaking down the silos because we have five departments under the direction of the Premier that were instructed to come together to work toward the implementation of the
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recommendations of Justice Nunn. The ones in front of the province and obviously there are some in front of the federal government which we've been working towards as well. So the departments have come together, we have been collaborating on the issues that we believe are issues that have crossed all of the departments. One of the big hurdles to overcome was identifying who would actually be the lead on this and who would actually be the one who would be responsible.
As you know, someone who has a problem or runs into trouble they may call one department and find out it is an issue that actually Community Services or Health should deal with or Education or Justice. What has happened is Community Services has been identified as the department as far as the lead and the new director of the child at risk strategy. It will be directly responsible to the Deputy Minister of Community Services. So we'll have someone finally in place who will be the person who will be able to take those calls and concerns and be able to address those issues. That person's responsible for coordinating at a very high level with all the departments, bringing together all the resources in the departments, and breaking down those silos and working together.
You talked about actually addressing the needs of youth and getting to youth, you're talking about the root causes of crime, that's what you're talking about. There's two aspects here, it's two pronged. One is the root cause of crime, one is obviously a strong enforcement, which I believe we need both. When it gets to the root causes of crime unfortunately it takes a lot of youth to reach a stage in their life where they end up in Waterville before they can actually access all the programs. They have great success in Waterville. In fact Justice Nunn himself said he went to Waterville and he was very impressed with not only the professionalism of the staff there but he was very impressed with the services that youth have access to when they get to Waterville.
How do we get those services to the youth in this province before they become incarcerated? That's a big problem. We heard that early intervention is very important and that we have to try to get ourselves in the lives of young people before they make those decisions of following the wrong path in life, somehow whether it's Health, Justice, or Community Services, someone will have to get into a young person's life as early as possible.
You've heard us talk about the youth attendance centre here in Halifax. I think it would be proper if you ever had the opportunity to visit there you would be amazed at what you'll see. I toured there with some of the folks here at the table and I can tell you that here's an opportunity, it's a golden opportunity, and obviously right now it's only in HRM, but we can see it being offered in other parts of the province as we see what's happening up there now because of the success they're having already, where youth who yes, they've come in conflict with the law, and yes they're being told they have to take certain programming, that programming is available at the attendance centre.
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You heard me read off earlier, maybe you did, about the different types of programs that are available for youth.
MR. PREYRA: Can I interrupt? Sorry, the question was more about, I think the McEvoy inquiry was saying that those services are out there but they exist in silos, that people can't navigate their way through the system, that they're inaccessible. I know we can talk about specific programs that are out there and they're doing very well, but there doesn't seem to be any way of bridging those divides and I appreciate what the minister is saying about Community Services being a lead agency, we should have a lead agency, but there were some fears expressed that the Community Services culture is very different from the Justice culture and those two cultures have not worked very well together. Let me just pass on that because I know that both the minister and the staff are committed to making this interdepartmental collaboration work, but it is important to bridge those silos. The McEvoy inquiry is essentially saying not that we should deal with the root causes of crime, not that we should deal with getting tough on crime, but a first step might just be to collaborate and co-operate so that when a family or youth comes into conflict with the law that the system has a way of identifying and intervening and coming up with more effective and better coordination.
MR. SCOTT: As I said earlier, a director is being hired through Community Services to coordinate those and the department has embarked upon an initiative as well. Someone is tasked now with ensuring that the initiative and crossing barriers of different departments is provided for.
MR. PREYRA: I also wanted to ask about Recommendation 30 in the Nunn Report which really talks more about alternate treatment and diversion programs and restorative justice, in particular dealing with youth with mental health issues, drug addictions, prostitution, those kinds of things which are not insurmountable problems given the right early intervention. Recommendation 30 says, "The Department of Justice should build on the results of its report, Perspectives on Youth Crime in Nova Scotia and continue its analysis of youth crime by comparing the Province's existing interventions, programs, and services for children and youth at risk . . ." with programs that are known to be effective elsewhere. "The department should publicly report the findings of this 'gap analysis' as a key part of the development of the Province's strategy for children and youth at risk." Has that been done and is there a report on where the gaps are and how the department intends to close those gaps?
MR. SCOTT: We have an individual on contract now with the Department of Justice until that youth coordinator through Community Services is hired. They're actually doing that analysis now and the report will be prepared.
MR. PREYRA: When can we expect that report? It is an important part of the beginning that we identify what interventions have worked elsewhere and what interventions
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are not working. We need to provide some kind of a road map for the system especially if various departments are going to coordinate then they need a road map. Nunn seems to be saying here that in this particular recommendation the Department of Justice should take the lead.
MR. SCOTT: We expect the report by summer and it will include that gap analysis that you talked about. It will be included in the report so we expect it by summer.
MR. PREYRA: One final question about the McEvoy inquiry and that is the recommendation about the new courthouses. He said, "When new courthouses are planned and built in the province, separate facilities should be provided for Youth Justice Court matters, completely apart from the adult facilities with dedicated space for partner agencies . . ." Recommendations 9 and 10 also flow with that. Where is the department in terms of the establishment of a separate youth justice court, the appointment of youth court liaison police, and a youth court Crown Attorney in Halifax?
MR. SCOTT: Actually in HRM here, obviously where there is a bigger population and the bigger courts, that's being done now. We're having two new facilities under construction, one in Bridgewater and one in Yarmouth. Those are both brand new court facilities so that recommendation is being taken into consideration.
MR. PREYRA: Will there will be a separate structure in there?
MR. SCOTT: You have to understand, if you've ever worked within the system you understand that a lot of times, depending on the area of the province, that to have a separate facility just for youth alone not being able to be used for anything else wouldn't make good use of space because obviously with the number of cases that are involved in some of those areas it wouldn't warrant a separate courtroom. Some parts of the province, obviously it does here in HRM, and that is underway now.
MR. PREYRA: Those are the questions I have on the McEvoy inquiry. I have two constituency related cases, one of which I've already drawn to your attention, but I think you had not been properly briefed on that at the time and I'd like to ask you some of these questions again. With respect, not that you weren't properly briefed, you were not properly warned either about those cases. I'll make this short.
This is the case that I raised in the House the other day, the Gus Reid case, and essentially Mr. Reid went to the Human Rights Commission and said that the province is in effect denying him access to a number of public buildings and public services - tourism, gaming authority, et cetera - because the Human Rights Act apparently does not protect him, does not provide him, does not guarantee him access to these places and essentially, if I can read quickly from this report, the Human Rights Commission said: That the basis of the allegation concerned the apparent absence of acknowledgement for issues surrounding
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accessibility in various government legislation. And he says, with respect to the respondent's omission - in other words, where the government doesn't take steps to protect the rights of people with disabilities - within the existing legislation, it falls outside of the Nova Scotia Human Rights Commission. He says, if you have concerns with respect to this legislation, I would encourage you to contact your local MLA.
To me, I was shocked, because it essentially says that the Department of Justice and the government and the Human Rights Commission, do not have an obligation to protect the rights of people with disabilities, when the Supreme Court has said, you know, sins of omission are a denial of fundamental rights. That if a person with a disability cannot get into a public space, whether it's City Hall or a hotel or the Legislature, that that is a denial of their rights and the Human Rights Commission is saying that the Human Rights Act doesn't allow you that. You have to go to your MLA and get the legislation changed, and I'm wondering if the Department of Justice is willing to champion that and allow the Human Rights Commission to hear complaints from people with disabilities who've been denied access to public spaces?
MR. SCOTT: The issue you bring forward now, it is a huge issue and you cover that with a wide brush because the national and provincial building codes obviously cover issues around public spaces that would be today, and new facilities being built today. As well, there's a commitment, as I said in your question the other day in the House, that there is a commitment by the province for provincially owned buildings to be completely accessible by 2020. But you're specifically asking whether the government would consider legislation to allow the Human Rights Commission to deal with all buildings in the province to be completely accessible?
[7:45 p.m.]
MR. PREYRA: Yes, and essentially, what Mr. Reid is saying is that if the government, for example, is establishing a building code for a particular facility, hotel, tourist authorities, that those building codes must have requirements that they be accessible, if not completely accessible, to people where numbers warrant and in sufficient numbers, and it seems to me, a fairly straightforward case, not just for people with disabilities but for seniors. You know, we have an aging population and we want to make all of our public spaces as accessible as possible. It seems to me, a reasonable request and at the very least, people with disabilities should have a place that they can go to appeal this denial of access.
MR. SCOTT: I need to understand. Are you talking about new construction or are you talking about all public places in the province, existing as they are today?
MR. PREYRA: Not so much existing, but new places.
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MR. SCOTT: I think you'll find, when it comes to new construction and I'm not an expert on this, but I think you'll find when it comes to new construction, the provincial and federal building codes, do allow public places for accessible issues to be dealt with, on new construction, but I understood that the question you asked me in the House the other day was whether we would consider legislation that would allow those folks to have the opportunity to appeal to the Human Rights Commission, where all buildings, where anyone would have access to in Nova Scotia, public buildings, should be accessible and I think you'd have to agree that that would be a huge task to undertake, to force all building owners in Nova Scotia to make their existing buildings, which may have been built 100 years ago, to be completely accessible. Now again, like I say, when it comes to new construction, there are building codes, both provincial and federal that contractors have to adhere to. The province does work with the disabilities association, in regard to issues such as this and I know that there's folks from different departments who are involved, certainly the Department of Justice is involved with that organization. In fact, you mentioned about seniors . . .
MR. PREYRA: Can I cut you off just for a minute because I have one minute left and I see the Chair looking at his time.
MR. SCOTT: No, you can't, I'm not finished. So the Senior Citizens' Secretariat is a good example - there are several departments within the government, one of which I'm a member that meet on a regular basis with, for example, seniors, who bring issues forward - I hear all the time, we hear as an organization, as a government department, issues around whether it be those with disabilities or seniors . . .
MR. CHAIRMAN: Order, please. Time has expired.
The honourable member for Richmond.
MR. MICHEL SAMSON: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Minister and your staff for being here for some of the Justice Estimates. Minister, let me start with an item that I've raised with you in the past and some of your predecessors, I'm wondering if you can indicate if any progress has been made on the issue of employing more bilingual sheriffs here in the Province of Nova Scotia.
MR. SCOTT: The member should be aware as well of the fact that we hired a French services coordinator last year, I believe last August, who has been working very hard in regard to ensuring that services are available in this province in both languages. In fact I was going to mention this to you the other day and I want to say it before I get the rest of the information, but you weren't here earlier when I mentioned about the swearing in of 15 new police officers here in Halifax last week, of the provincially funded police officers, which I think they told me four or five of them speak French and English as well which is a great thing. I think that shows the type of calibre of people being brought to this province and the emphasis being put on employees who have the ability to speak in both official languages.
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The new Director of Sheriff Services, Mr. Stephen Brown, who has recently just taken over, is bilingual himself. He, as well as the department, continue to look for bilingual officers to fill positions where they're needed in the province which you and I have talked about on past occasions. The effort is continuing to ensure that those positions are filled by bilingual officers.
MR. SAMSON: I will wait and see the results of the committee that was struck on French language services, but as I've mentioned to you before and I'm sure you'll appreciate from your time as an enforcement officer, sheriffs are called upon many times to explain to the accused exactly what the instructions are from the judge from the time that they might be in a holding cell to when they arrive in court. I've seen enough times being in court where after people are given instructions by the judge they walk to the back of the room and then ask the sheriff what did he just say or what am I supposed to do now, what he just spoke about I didn't understand.
What happens is that, especially in many communities including mine, many of the individuals that may have to appear in court do not fully understand when they're given instructions in English, especially if it's legal type language and the whole aspect of being in a courtroom and the fact that it's intimidating to say the least and therefore in many ways they rely upon the sheriffs to give instructions and it's an important element.
As I've said all along, it's not a matter of displacing existing sheriffs but when opportunities arise to hire new sheriffs it's an opportunity for the government to make it a requirement or at least request that people who are applying for the position be bilingual, especially in targeted areas around this province. I'm just curious during the past fiscal year of the positions that the department has advertised for could you indicate whether any of those would have had the requirement or desire that they be bilingual positions.
MR. SCOTT: Three within the court services. Are you talking specifically about sheriff positions, or just generally within the service?
MR. SAMSON: Well, I know there's an effort to expand the service, but certainly the front-line people who usually deal with the accused, or those who are convicted, are the sheriffs themselves which is why I wanted to start at least by asking about the sheriff positions. I know in my area of Richmond-Port Hawkesbury there was a posting a few years ago and actually after lobbying your predecessor it was agreed that it would be a bilingual position. In fact the individual who occupies it right now is bilingual and able to offer services in both languages. So I'm just curious, during the past year has your department advertised any positions for new sheriffs and made the requirement to be bilingual?
MR. SCOTT: The short answer is no but, as I was just reminded as well, the department continues to work towards and offer French language training upgrades for current staff within the system. Again, I know you raised the same issue last year and we
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talked about it since and you raised it again here. I mean it's a very important issue. I think there are attempts being made to try to ensure that we can fill the positions where the need is with bilingual services, whether it's court, whether it's sheriffs, or whatever, within the system and where we don't have the opportunity to hire people, or people are not applying for those positions, to at least offer adequate training for those who wish to upgrade their skills or to take French language training.
MR. SAMSON: Can the minister indicate whether any of his current staff in the court system have taken the opportunity to receive more training in a French language?
MR. SCOTT: Approximately 15 that are within the system now, yes, have been taking advantage of the opportunity to upgrade their French language training.
MR. SAMSON: Can the minister indicate whether his department has identified geographical areas that would be such that there might be a need for French language services through the court system in those areas?
MR. SCOTT: The short answer, again, is yes. Obviously, there are areas in the province - and I can look in my own community - where the need would be probably very low, but in the honourable member's area it's very high. I think it's fair to say that the answer is yes, that the department continues to look at areas such as yours and other areas of the province where the population is fairly high in regard to Francophone and we should be trying to fill the positions, whether it's court or sheriffs or any other government services.
I recently met with - and I won't be able to say the name - a group that I talked to Minister d'Entremont about, a group that represents those within the legal community (Interruptions) Thank you - merci. We talked about some of these issues and I told the group, and I spoke to Minister d'Entremont afterwards saying, I want to work with this group and we should be working collectively together to try to do what we can, because some of the issues they brought forward are the issues you're bringing here tonight. I think you're right. They had issues around wills, for example. Everyone should have the opportunity, when they are looking for government services, to be able to access them in the language of their choice.
I'm just reminded, as well, we now have three bilingual probation officers within the system: one in Yarmouth, one in New Glasgow, and one in Port Hawkesbury.
MR. SAMSON: That's very good. I can picture the future, that before too long we won't just be talking about English and French court language services if our province is going to continue to talk about immigration and bringing people in from outside.
I look at the time where I used to work as a summer student in the Registry of Motor Vehicles where we didn't even officially offer French language services. It just happened that
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the department would try to be strategic in hiring students who actually could be bilingual and I was called upon to different offices in the province to do that. I was reminded, at the time when we did some research, that Ontario offered 22 different languages at their Registry of Motor Vehicles. So we have a lot of advancement to do as a province.
I would strongly encourage that your department, considering the importance that it plays and the fact that it's not only important that justice be served but that people understand exactly what they are being told through the Justice Department and through our court system. So I have no doubt that before too long, and hopefully I'm young enough that I'll see the day, we'll probably be, as a province, required to provide much more than just English and French language training.
On another issue, I'm curious, and I raise this every year and I'll raise it again, could the minister indicate whether there's any additional funding for the Legal Aid Program in this year's budget?
MR. SCOTT: There is $475,000. I'm glad you brought that up because that's a very important issue for this department, for this government, and I know it is for yourself as well. At one time, you would know, there was a 50-50 cost sharing on legal aid in this province with the federal government. That has now eroded. I think the criminal side is around 20 per cent by the feds and 80 per cent by the province. Over the last couple of years we've put an additional $2 million into legal aid, put in an additional $4.75 million this year.
We think it's imperative, and I believe it's imperative, that the federal government get back to its funding of 50-50 cost sharing because, as I said earlier as well, in my experience in policing, it's very important for people who are entering the justice system to have the legal advice and direction that they need and get it as soon as possible. Most times for many people legal aid is the only way. So we are continuing every year to try to put additional money into it and we'll continue, as well, to encourage the federal government to restore that 50-50 cost sharing.
If I could, the Public Service Commission actually is reviewing the issue around what job descriptions will look like in this province, and I'm told that as a part of that review there will be a bilingual in place.
MR. SAMSON: Mr. Chairman, I'm glad to hear that, and I emphasize again that I believe the French and Acadian community has been very patient. The approach they've taken has not been to displace anyone. It has been that when opportunities arise, when there are job openings, that was an opportunity at that point to be able to bring people in who can offer bilingual services. I think that's a credit to the Acadian and French community that it hasn't been militant to the point of saying that people should be displaced or taken out of their positions because they can't speak French but, at the same time, it's important that the government identify those positions and do their best to be able to fill those.
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I do wish the minister well in getting the federal government to restore its 50 per cent funding for legal aid and if the minister can achieve that, I encourage him to focus on housing grants, as well, to try to get them back up to 50 per cent from the federal government, because we could use help on that front as well.
When you say there's more money for legal aid - $475,000 in this budget - where exactly is that money going? Is it to increase the legal aid tickets provided to private lawyers, is it just to hire more legal aid lawyers, or allow them to handle more cases? What exactly is the intent of that additional funding?
MR. SCOTT: Well, $375,000 is actually for positions for staff lawyers and $100,000 would be for certificates. Now, I just want to mention that in the last 10 years the province has put an additional $10 million into legal aid, while the federal government has decreased its contribution by $200,000.
The other thing I was going to mention, as well, was that at the federal-provincial-territorial meetings in Newfoundland and Labrador in the Fall, it was agreed amongst all of the ministers there, all of the ministers from all of the provinces and territories coming together at that meeting and then the final day meeting with the Public Safety Minister and the Minister of Justice, you know, it was agreed amongst all of us, to them, that the number one issue across this country we wanted to see was the return to the 50-50 cost sharing for legal aid in Canada, not just Nova Scotia but across this country. So it's not only recognized here by people such as yourself, it's recognized across this country that we need to get back to that funding formula.
MR. SAMSON: Did I understand from your answer that you did say a portion of that was going towards legal aid tickets?
MR. SCOTT: Yes, $100,000 for legal aid tickets.
MR. SAMSON: Now, of that $100,000, is that just to make sure there are more legal aid tickets or are you increasing the rates on legal aid tickets?
MR. SCOTT: More certificates.
[8:00 p.m.]
MR. SAMSON: Well, you know, that's a problem I've raised before and I raise with you again. Unfortunately, more and more private lawyers will not take legal aid tickets, whether it's for criminal matters or whether it's for family matters. It's to the point now where I know some lawyers are trying to get the Bar Society to recognize that taking legal aid tickets should be considered a bit of pro bono legal work on their behalf because of the fact that they don't pay well.
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For family matters, they're extremely complicated. They're time-consuming and clearly those tickets don't in any way reflect the reality of what's going on in private practice. That's the brutal honesty of that and with criminal matters it's no different. There is a lot of work that goes into that and when you consider the amount of money that most lawyers are charging in private practice and what's being made available through these legal aid tickets, it just simply doesn't pay, and more and more firms are just refusing to do them. That's unfortunate, because I can tell you in the Strait area I have people contact my office and say, look, I've been offered a legal aid ticket because the other party is getting legal aid representation. The way the legal aid system is set up now is that if you do have a legal aid lawyer, the other party in the matter is usually offered a legal aid ticket to go get a private lawyer.
The problem is, in the Strait area, we're down to only two or three lawyers between Inverness, Richmond, Antigonish and Guysborough that will even look at these things. That's just my area, I can only imagine how much of a challenge it is elsewhere in the province. So I'm curious, first of all, is your department aware that this is a problem and, secondly, have you looked at any way of trying to address this to allow more private lawyers to be able to accept these legal aid tickets?
MR. SCOTT: That is a good question. I know you're supposed to ask the questions here, but I was going to ask you, is this something that's been brought to your attention within the last year, or prior to that? Because last year, if you recall, we did increase the amounts by $30 or $40 an hour, I think - I forget the number right off. I'm kind of curious if that's something you've heard because it's not something we've heard lately. I know we heard it up until last year when we increased the rates. I'm just wondering, is that something that you've heard, that we need to review again?
MR. SAMSON: It's my understanding that there have been some improvements made in that regard. Still, compared to what a private lawyer would usually charge for these matters, it's still nowhere near what would be gotten from a private client, being charged at the regular hourly basis.
It still is a problem and I can tell you from my knowledge, most law firms will either make their junior lawyer do the legal aid tickets, or some of the sole practitioners may take them on in that regard. But it still is an issue and legal aid tickets are not looked upon in a very favourable light, even with the changes that have been made. So I'm curious, with the increase of last year, is there any plan to look at further changes in the next fiscal year?
MR. SCOTT: We increased the hourly rate, but we also increased the amount of hours per case that we would allow a lawyer. We thought that had actually taken care of the issue, but it hasn't been brought to us since we did those increases last year.
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I'm also being told the certificates that had been accepted by the private Bar have increased over the last year as well, which would indicate to us that more lawyers are accepting those certificates as a result of the increased hourly rate and increased amount of time per case.
Again, we're always willing to look at issues like that. We thought last year - because you actually brought that forward last year - we thought we had dealt with the issue.
MR. SAMSON: Of the $375,000 that you're spending on more staff, have you been able to identify how many additional legal aid lawyers this would fund?
MR. SCOTT: That would allow for five additional staff lawyers and two support staff.
MR. SAMSON: Could the minister indicate when his department intends on advertising for those positions and, more importantly, where will they be located?
MR. SCOTT: Obviously, we wouldn't be looking to advertise before Friday, but I've just been told that the Legal Aid Commission actually would be - they deal with those issues that you just brought forward.
MR. SAMSON: Is the minister aware of where those five additional positions would be located?
MR. SCOTT: They would identify where the need is in the province. The Legal Aid Commission would actually decide where those positions would be most needed in the province.
MR. SAMSON: So at this point your department is not aware of where they would be looking to put these five additional positions?
MR. SCOTT: No. Again, obviously until the budget process is completed, they wouldn't move on any further initiatives.
MR. SAMSON: Today, the minister would be aware that I tabled a bill to establish a privacy officer for the Province of Nova Scotia. This is an issue that many of the provinces have already put in place in order to have someone responsible that people could raise concerns regarding their private information and the use of that information. Has your department done any research or has it established any position on the establishment of a privacy officer for the Province of Nova Scotia?
MR. SCOTT: No. To the best of my knowledge that has not been raised as an issue or has not been given any consideration, aside from in the department.
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MR. SAMSON: To your knowledge, are there any objections with the establishment of a privacy officer?
MR. SCOTT: Again, it hasn't been raised as an issue, so I would have to say not that I'm aware of, however, it would be something we would have to take a look at I guess.
MR. SAMSON: Well, hopefully your department will look at it. I can't recall offhand, but I believe either four or five other Canadian jurisdictions have already put in place a privacy officer and I'm sure the minister will appreciate with the amount of sensitivity around private information now amongst government, the use of video cameras at different sites, as well, has given cause for people to be concerned about the use of their private information or how the state or business may be looking into their private lives. So I do hope the minister will look at the issue, and hopefully in the Fall session we'll have an opportunity to further discuss the issue of a privacy officer for the Province of Nova Scotia.
Another issue which I've raised with the minister in the past that he'll be familiar with is the issue of maintenance enforcement here in the Province of Nova Scotia. I'm curious if the minister could indicate to us, what steps has his department taken in the last fiscal year, since we spoke last about this issue, in regard to maintenance enforcement and as to whether there's anything in this current budget to deal with maintenance enforcement issues and whether the department has, more importantly, any plans on increasing the amount of maintenance enforcement officers or support given to that division of his office?
MR. SCOTT: I would begin by saying that in my initial comments I talked about - you know, the Maintenance Enforcement Program has been very successful. I think we're recovering around 80 per cent of monies owed. The member asked last year, and I know he asked me again about the issue around, for example, Yarmouth where we continue - and I made a commitment to ensure the face-to-face service that was required by people in the area who would need it, that it would be in place. In fact, I believe that's still in place today.
The specific question you asked was around additional funding and we have - I talked earlier about the reciprocal unit as well, which is bringing cases here from outside of the province to be dealt with here. There are three staff in there. They have approximately 2,500 cases that they deal with on a regular basis. (Interruption) We've also budgeted an additional $0.25 million - $250,000 - which would be for any additional staff that may be hired later in the year or for other needs in the department.
HON. MARK PARENT: . . . meetings that are being held around the province, I don't know if they've all been finished yet - the Safer Communities - but what feedback you've gotten from those meetings, if you have an update on them.
MR. SCOTT: Yes, the task force has concluded its meetings, I understand. I believe last weekend they spent a couple of days together to go over what they've heard from the
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general population of Nova Scotia, to look at what they may be recommending back to me. My understanding is that there's a draft report with recommendations coming sometime early in May. They've held, I think, around 45 meetings throughout the province, which would include focus groups as well. I attended a couple of those myself, one here in Halifax on Gottingen Street and one in Dartmouth. Some of these meetings were obviously well attended and some of them were not so well attended. But I know from my discussions with some of the members, they've had the opportunity to hear from Nova Scotians from one end of the province to the other and they felt the meetings were very beneficial.
As I said earlier, these are 25 volunteers who volunteer their time from very busy lives and from a wide array of backgrounds: a lot of expertise in restorative justice and in health, some were elected officials, some were - anyway, they've done a fantastic job. I was truly amazed by the eagerness of this group to come together.
We first met in Truro around Christmastime, just before Christmas in fact, I think about a week or so before Christmas, and I said at the time that when most families were planning their Christmas holidays, these people were prepared to volunteer their time and join this task force that I'd asked to have formed and to travel throughout Nova Scotia over the last number of months, through winter months. They've done a phenomenal job and I'm really looking forward to the draft report, with recommendations, which I understand will come sometime in May.
MR. PARENT: That would be my only question right now - move back to the Liberal caucus. But I just wanted to thank the minister for having a meeting in the Kentville area. I deeply appreciate it, since we've recently had two deaths in the area from violent crime. So I want to publicly thank the minister for that.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay, thank you. Next question.
MR. SAMSON: Just back on maintenance enforcement. Have you put additional officers into that program?
MR. SCOTT: We've committed $250,000, additional money, this year, in the new budget. The reciprocal unit has three staff, and they will handle about 2,500 cases. That's three additional staff, plus two more besides. So there's an additional five.
MR. SAMSON: And where would those staff members be placed?
MR. SCOTT: Three of them are in Sydney and two are in Dartmouth.
MR. SAMSON: So three new staff members in Sydney? Very good. Mr. Minister, we've argued before, or we had disagreements I guess, over the percentage of default rate here in Nova Scotia, as to what that actual percentage is. Our figures show us that last year
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we had a 78 per cent collection rate. We were 11th amongst 12 reporting provinces and territories. I'm curious, does the minister have a plan to increase the amount of the collection rate for the Maintenance Enforcement Program?
MR. SCOTT: I just want to begin by saying that I give full marks to those who work within the Maintenance Enforcement Program around this province, because a lot of the time they're dealing with very difficult situations - it's probably an understatement to say - and a lot times with individuals who, for all kinds of reasons, are not only avoiding payment, but are doing everything they can to ensure that they don't have to fulfill their commitment. The Legislature passed legislation to ensure that we do everything we can, particularly for children, to ensure that children are in receipt of the monies that they're entitled to.
But I think, as well, sometimes numbers are skewed. You can correct me if I'm wrong, but sometimes when people who are not going through court order but in fact have payments made directly to them, if it's not through the court and then they report that the money is not paid or only a portion of the money is being paid, then that's deemed to be a default, which a lot of the times will skew the numbers as well.
I think we have a good collection rate here, 80 per cent. That means that obviously 20 per cent are either in default one way or another, and that could be the fact that they missed one payment, because if someone misses one payment that, in fact, puts them in default. The cases we hear about - and I know you have brought it to my attention and other members have as well - a lot of times the cases we hear about are those hard cases where the enforcement officer is doing everything they possibly can to collect, whether it's someone who leaves one job and goes to another, or just deliberately quits their job or moves, or fails to disclose for whatever reason, does everything within their power to avoid meeting their commitment. But I believe that the maintenance enforcement workers in this province do a good job.
[8:15 p.m.]
MR. SAMSON: No, I don't doubt they do a good job. I think you recited how many caseloads each one of them handles and it's an atrocious number to start off with, as to how many cases each one of them is handling. One of the big challenges, and it's been a challenge for a number of years and I think it's only going to get worse, is dealing with out-of-jurisdiction defaulters, and in our case we certa