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MR. CHAIRMAN: Order, please. We will continue with the estimates for the Minister of Finance.
The honourable Minister of Finance.
HON. NEIL LEBLANC: Mr. Speaker, I could go over my opening remarks again and go over the breakdown of the department and analyze it, but I think that members know that summary. So I believe when we broke yesterday, it was the member for Lunenburg West who was asking questions and if he has any questions, I will try my best to answer them.
MR. CHAIRMAN: The honourable member for Lunenburg West declared that he has completed his questioning. Thank you very much.
Order, please.
The honourable member for Halifax Fairview.
MR. GRAHAM STEELE: Mr. Chairman, I would like to take a very short time today to address certain issues around the Nova Scotia Gaming Corporation which is within the responsibilities of the Minister of Finance. Last day I asked the minister if he was aware if the Minister responsible for the Liquor Corporation had issued a directive to the corporation instructing them that their bottom line had to equal $160 million this year. So my question to the Minister of Finance is, was a directive, written or verbal, given to the Gaming Corporation instructing them to produce a particular bottom line this year?
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MR. CHAIRMAN: Just one moment, the Chair wants to take a moment to be clear here. The Chair recognizes that, in fact, the member for Halifax Fairview was the last speaker with a time remaining of 46 minutes.
MR. LEBLANC: Mr. Chairman, I'm going by recollection, I don't believe that we gave them a written directive. We did have some discussions with the Nova Scotia Gaming Corporation as to whether or not there were some areas that revenues could be examined. My recollection is that there wasn't a directive sent to them, but I will endeavour, I have just asked staff as to whether or not they recall any such directive and they don't, but I will take a look, and I will also ask the staff of the Gaming Corporation if there was one and maybe you could go to the next question. My recollection is that there was not a written communication with them, but I will check with staff and my second answer to the member opposite, I will fill him in.
MR. STEELE: Mr. Chairman, this is an important point because from public statements of the Liquor Corporation, they were told by the minister that the amount they turned over to the government had to equal a certain amount. So the Liquor Corporation said, well, we have two choices - decrease costs or increase prices. So they had an across-the-board price increase as a result of the directive they got from the government. Now, the government is expecting a fairly substantial increase this year, not just from the Liquor Corporation, but from the Gaming Corporation. In fact, the increase is from $175 million to $190 million. I wanted to ask the minister again, did he or did his government instruct the Gaming Corporation that the amount of money turned over to the province in this fiscal year had to equal a certain amount?
MR. LEBLANC: The answer is no.
MR. STEELE: Then, Mr. Chairman, I note that the Gaming Corporation is projecting increases in revenue anyway and, in particular, I want to focus on projected increases in revenue from the Halifax Casino. The forecast for last year is $64.6 million - this is revenue - and the forecast for this year is $68.1 million, an increase of 3.5. What exactly is going to happen that is going to produce for that casino an increase in revenue of 3.5 in this fiscal year? How does the minister expect that increased revenue to be produced?
MR. LEBLANC: Mr. Chairman, staff are informing me that this is a marketing initiative done by the casino to increase play at the casino and that is the 3 per cent increase that is there, from $64 million to $68 million. If you look at the percentage, I don't think it's unreasonable the expectations that are being put forward.
MR. STEELE: Mr. Minister, when I used the figure 3.5, that was million dollars, it wasn't 3 per cent; it's higher than 3 per cent. I haven't done the math in my head, but it's somewhere in the range of 5 per cent or 6 per cent. It's the same at the Sydney casino which is expected to go up from $29.7 million to $32 million in revenue this year. I wonder if the
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minister could elaborate on how it is, what is the Gaming Corporation and/or the casino doing to take more money out of casino gamblers this year? What specifically is going to happen?
MR. LEBLANC: Mr. Chairman, in regard to the casino operations, we don't operate the casinos. The member opposite is very much aware of that because Casino Nova Scotia is the operator of those casinos. They come forward with their business plan and if you look at the Sydney casino, which the member opposite makes reference to, there have been steady, small increments every year in their performance and this year the same is expected and whereby there is an increase, the member opposite made reference to it, those are the numbers that they expect to reach this year.
Obviously, Mr. Chairman, over and above that, how we derive our revenues from casinos is a rather complicated formula, but one of which is 20 per cent off the top. Whatever is gambled there, we would get 20 per cent of that. It doesn't matter whether or not it's the Halifax casino or whether or not it's the Sydney casino and then after that it is a percentage of the net proceeds that we receive of the net profit from the casino - 65 per cent of it would go to the province and 35 per cent to the operator. The member may have some more questions in regard to that formula in his subsequent questions and I will endeavour to answer them.
MR. STEELE: Mr. Chairman, the most significant increase is in VLTs, video lottery terminals: the revenue from video lottery terminals is projected to increase this year; the revenue is projected to increase from $161 million to $190 million. That is an increase, just doing the math quickly in my head, of 15 per cent this year over last year. What is happening in Nova Scotia that the Gaming Corporation can expect a 15 per cent increase in revenue from VLTs? Where is it coming from?
[2:30 p.m.]
MR. LEBLANC: Mr. Chairman, one of the things that is going on is that we have replaced the VLTs with the new modules. They have differences of games on them. They're different than the ones that were there prior. There are also measures that we have put in place, about two or three or four different initiatives, one of which is a clock, how long you play. There are three or four other different initiatives. After a certain amount of time I believe the machine pays out automatically. What other initiatives are there? (Interruption) Yes, there's a pop-up reminder that comes up that tells people how long they've been at the machine and it is also shown in dollars rather than credits. The old VLTs basically had credits, it didn't show the dollar amount. They thought that was important.
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I should point out for the member opposite that the other provinces in the Atlantic Provinces, and actually outside of the Maritimes and the Atlantic Provinces, they're also looking at the measures that we put in place to try to assess them and, obviously, as the Nova Scotia Gaming Corporation, there's going to be some tracking involved in that, but a major part of the increment is the new machines that are there which basically expands the number of people. Some people basically didn't want to play the old machines because of the fact that they were looking for something different. These new VLTs have a variety of new measures.
MR. STEELE: Mr. Chairman, I do want to point out that a significant amount of new revenue being generated by the province this year is coming from a substantial increase in revenue from VLTs and a lower but still significant increase in revenue from the casino. So just like the Liberal Government before it, this government is becoming addicted to gambling revenue. They're becoming addicted to gambling revenue to generate that politically precious but fictional bottom line.
Mr. Chairman, in the budget last year, the government separated the operating costs of the Halifax casino from the payments to the operator and this year they don't do that. They have put them together without saying what the different payments are and, you know, for reasons I raised in Question Period, I can understand why the government would want to change their books so that it's harder to figure out what's going on so let me ask the minister this. In this fiscal year, what is the payment to the operator of the Halifax casino?
MR. LEBLANC: Mr. Speaker, it's a good question the member opposite talks about, which is that in the contract that was entered into by the previous administration with the casino, it was signed in 1995 by the then Finance Minister Bernie Boudreau, and basically if it wasn't Bernie, it may have been his successor who actually signed the contract because if I recall, a lot of the discussions that took place at the Public Accounts Committee when Mr. Fiske was before the Public Accounts Committee, and I served as a member of that committee, if I recall, even after Mr. Boudreau left, there were still some discussions on how to finalize that contract. So I may stand to be corrected as to exactly when it was all signed, but I do know that it was signed during the administration of the previous Liberal Government.
On this new casino when it was built, and it has been built, Mr. Chairman, and we've all seen it down on Water Street next to the Purdy's Wharf Tower, the loan or the investment into it would be repaid over seven years. The fact is that the rate of return, the interest on that that they would be allowed as a casino operator, would be 12 per cent. So in this fiscal year in this business plan that is put forward is an interest expense of $9 million. So the fact is that is a substantial amount, but I should point out that within seven years the loan or the investment will be completely paid back and at that time, obviously, what will happen over and above that is that the province at that time will not have these types of interest payments subsequent to that.
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MR. STEELE: Mr. Chairman, I just want to clarify this from the minister's answer. Last year there was a line item that is called Payments to operator. If that line item were included in this year's budget, would it be $9 million or would it be something else?
MR. LEBLANC: Mr. Chairman, I am looking at this year's Crown Corporation Business Plans. The member is making a reference to a payment to operator. I'm trying, Mr. Chairman, to co-operate with the member opposite and he's referring to a line I don't see in the document that is here. Can you clarify just so I make sure that I give you the right answer and what we're talking about.
MR. STEELE: Certainly, Mr. Chairman, I would be glad to do that. I wonder if I could ask the Page to deliver this directly to the Minister of Finance because the reason he doesn't have it is because it is from last year's Crown Corporation Business Plans.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Excuse me, honourable member, it is appropriate that any papers that go through the Legislature be tabled as well.
MR. STEELE: Perhaps the Minister of Finance will table it as soon as he's done with it, Mr. Chairman. I'm just trying to keep this process moving along.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
MR. STEELE: That is the item I'm referring to. There was an item in last year's business plan broken out as Payments to operator. If the business plan of this year were stated in the same way, what would the payment to operator be this year?
MR. LEBLANC: Mr. Chairman, I should point out for the member opposite that in this year the amount of interest that we are paying is 8 - the payment to the operator that he's referring to in last year's was a payment to, I believe it was, Park Place Entertainment, which was the operator at that point in time. The changes that happened within the old casino and the new casino when it was built and how the province would repay the capital to the operator are two of the issues that are changing from last year to this year in how we account for it. The fact of the matter is that there is the repayment schedule which shows seven years that we have to repay the casino to the operator. I should point out that the useful life of the asset is longer than that and there was a difference in how that is accounted for.
This is a question that I would have to sit down and do a reconciliation so the member could get that information. I'm more than prepared to do it, but the fact of the matter is it would take me some time to do it and I'm not sure whether or not I can do it in the time frame that is here. If the member opposite would let me have staff prepare a response to that, I would be more than prepared to do so.
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MR. STEELE: Mr. Chairman, this is another example, and I pointed out others yesterday, where the financial statements for this year are not directly comparable to the financial statements of last year. So as a member of this Legislature, what I'm spending my time doing with the Minister of Finance is just trying to get him to reconcile this year's financial statement with last year's financial statement. Instead of talking about the implications of what's going on, which is what we're elected to do, we're chasing down numbers, just what exactly are the real numbers, because the financial statements are not directly comparable from one year to the next. That is not a good use of the Legislature's time.
I have one more question, Mr. Minister. Last year in the budget, the government forecast revenue from the Halifax Casino of over $69 million, and the actuals are going to be something quite a bit - well, not quite a bit, something just under $65 million. The Halifax Casino fell short of its revenue targets by $5 million or 7 per cent last year, and yet the government has, again, this year set an ambitious revenue target. Why should anyone believe that the casino, this year, is going to earn the revenue when it couldn't meet a similar rosy forecast last year? What's going to be different this year?
MR. LEBLANC: Mr. Chairman, I don't know if the member opposite took note of what happened last September, and the result that many hotels and many business travellers and many individuals refused to travel, especially for the first few months subsequent to the events of September 11th. I know that many of my friends who were very hesitant of travelling whatsoever right after those events, basically guaranteed me they wouldn't be travelling for a few years, come February a lot of them happened to go to Cuba or happened to go to the Dominican Republic. The fact of the matter is last year's numbers would have been impacted by those events. I don't for a second think that the member opposite could dispute that.
The fact is, this year, even the GDP growth that we have in our province, and the fact that our economy here in Nova Scotia is doing well, the fact that people are travelling again, are reasons that I think the numbers that are coming forward are reasonable. We could sit here, obviously, and debate the issue as to whether or not the projection could be a little higher or a little lower. The staff has done its best to put the projections forward that they feel are reasonable. I think when you look at that in that context, it is reasonable.
MR. STEELE: Mr. Chairman, I had told the member for Lunenburg West I was finished, but I can't resist one more comment to that answer from the minister, it's just provoking me again. The minister knows as well as I do that the vast majority of gamblers in the Halifax Casino are Nova Scotians. They come from the local area. I know the minister has the statistics on that because I have seen it. To blame the shortfall in the Halifax Casino on September 11th is just, well, it's just silly. The minister knows it's not true. Anyway, with that comment, I will turn the floor over to my colleague, the member for Lunenburg West.
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MR. CHAIRMAN: Just one moment, member.
MR. STEELE: I just want the minister to note I didn't ask a question.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Order, order. I think it's appropriate for the minister to have the opportunity to respond, so I'm going to allow the minister the opportunity to respond to that question.
MR. LEBLANC: Mr. Chairman, I want to thank you for your observance of the democratic rights of ministers to answer questions, and for that I want to thank you with all my heart. The other thing I wanted to say is that I do want to table that document that I said I would, and I will do so at this time to make sure that I concur with your directives. I just want to point out that the member opposite may oftentimes feel that he has all the answers and that is all local players in his estimation that play at the Halifax Casino. I want to point out that 40 per cent of the players between the months of May and October at the Halifax Casino are tourists.
[2:45 p.m.]
So the situation, if you look at the play that is there, I'm sure that the member opposite will agree that the fact of September 11th would have had an impact on last year, with the months of September and October basically being affected, and the fact that this year, with God's good graces, we won't find ourselves in the same situation that we observed last year. I don't think anybody in this House ever wants to see that again, and hopefully if we keep on our toes as a nation and as a world we won't see that.
Mr. Chairman, with those few comments, I will take questions from my honourable colleague, the member for Lunenburg West.
MR. CHAIRMAN: The honourable member for Lunenburg West.
MR. DONALD DOWNE: Mr. Chairman, maybe one way to make sure that we have more tourists come to use the facility is talk to the Minister of Tourism and Culture, who has declined the tourism numbers in the Province of Nova Scotia since holding that position. He asked me to make sure that you knew that if he had more money in his budget, for every dollar that's invested in tourism, he gets $13 back to the province. He was basically blaming you for the downfall of the tourism industry in Nova Scotia, indirectly, and not September 11th. I just thought I would help the Minister of Tourism and Culture out.
I have a number of questions, Mr. Minister. One is about the Atlantic Lottery Corporation. We've been asking, for two and a half years now, questions on ALC, and the minister has indicated each time that he would get back to us with the detail of the agreement. Just to refresh the minister's memory, back in 1998 I believe the Auditor General
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came out with a report that indicated that Nova Scotia was not getting its fair share, and in fact hadn't gotten it's fair share for quite some time, and indicated that we should renegotiate a better settlement so that at least Nova Scotia, not counting the benefits with regard to the jobs and everything else, just in dollars put in and dollars coming out, that our share was not being calculated properly, and we were not getting our money back. It was around $5 million. He suggested we should do something in those negotiations, whether it's retroactivity issues, because the matter was brought to the attention of ALC.
We tried to negotiate that, and subsequently they did not want to come forward with the appropriate negotiations to deal with what the Auditor General had indicated we needed to have. So we decided to, reluctantly, leave ALC with the direction of the corporation, which is sitting with you here today. Their advice was go, because they're not going to pay us the money. Since then the minister has gone back and negotiated a settlement. Would the minister table the total deal of ALC to myself and to the members of this House with regard to the Atlantic Loto Corporation with the other provinces?
MR. LEBLANC: Mr. Chairman, just so I understand what the member is asking, are you asking what the new deal was, are you asking what the review was? You talk about if I'm prepared to table the deal. I want to understand what the question is, and I will do my best to answer it.
MR. DOWNE: I will try to make it a little more specific, and I will read the question one more time. Would the minister please table for this House the deal that he has struck with ALC?
MR. LEBLANC: Mr. Chairman, to the best of my knowledge all those details are made public. I will do it again. I don't have any problem whatsoever. We went back. The member has given a good history of the problem. The problem was that under the previous agreement with the Atlantic Loto Corporation, of which our province was a signatory and a participant, the situation was that it took unanimity, every province in the Atlantic Loto Corporation would have to agree in order to change any of its components. The member correctly states that the Auditor General did a review, and stated that the Province of Nova Scotia was not receiving its fair share. I think it was more along the lines, not so much the revenues as what proportion of the expenses we were paying. We were paying over and above what was considered to be a fair share.
I should say it was not only the Auditor General who was of that opinion, the other provinces were of the same opinion. The member opposite was my predecessor, and I know that he did his best to resolve the issue. The fact of the matter that you needed unanimity was the dilemma that you had, because you had to have Newfoundland, New Brunswick and P.E.I. agree. The fact is there were probably some people who put their backs against the wall and didn't want to change it. You, as a government, made a decision that you would withdraw from ALC, and you would go on your own with VLTs.
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We did a review, and the review stated that we should stay in and negotiate. We did, and I should point out that many of the players who were at the table when you were there changed. The fact of some new blood coming in may have had some impact on whether or not we were successful. I do want to give a lot of credit to the chairman of that time, who worked tirelessly on this situation to bring it to a successful conclusion.
Finally we got a new deal into place, which I will give to the member. I have no problem. We've already talked about this many times. I will talk about three or four of the components. The first one is that the changes in the way that the expenses were being apportioned amongst the provinces was changed, and in this year we are going to be getting $4.2 million more - $4.2 million more to go towards the priorities of Nova Scotians which are health or education or roads or community services, or whatever you want to talk about.
The other thing is that we also had a commitment from New Brunswick, that we receive $500,000 a year for three years - that was New Brunswick's contribution towards the settlement of trying to resolve this. So that is another one. The other thing that we asked for - that not only Nova Scotia asked for, but other provinces asked for - was an efficiency review of the ALC. I should point out that the minister, especially for Newfoundland and Labrador, was also stating that we should have an efficiency review to make sure that the ALC is running as efficiently as possible. If we're going to have people working, we should make sure the jobs are necessary and they're producing to the efficiency levels that they should.
The last thing, which I think is important, we demanded a dispute resolution process, and there was one established. If we find ourselves, as a province, in the same situation, that we have an impasse which is where you found yourself when you were in government, you had an impasse and you couldn't get by it, the fact of the matter is if you have one person who is entrenched as much as you may be, as strong as your convictions and as tireless in your efforts, you very well may find yourself in a situation that you cannot resolve the issue, and the fact under the ALC is that it took unanimity was the real problem that I think that Nova Scotia had and I know from speaking to the member and also from the Gaming Corporation that you tried to resolve this. You just couldn't come to a point that you could.
So those are all issues. I will give the details again because this is basically a straightforward answer. I should say there is one other thing that we wanted to work on and that was to have a separate agency agreement whereby the Nova Scotia Gaming Corporation could enter into a different arrangement with the Atlantic Lottery Corporation. You may ask why did you want to have that, and the fact of the matter is that Nova Scotia Gaming Corporation, which was established and is headed here by my learned colleague to my right, Marie Mullally, is an institution that was set up basically to ensure that the casino would be dealt with at arm's-length of government. So the issue is that's why the Gaming Corporation was formed and the fact though is that they have also developed considerable expertise. The fact is if we wanted to enter into an agency agreement that some of the things that other provinces aren't interested in doing that we have the capacity to do, that we could do it.
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I should point out that we have not reached an agreement yet on the agency agreement. Part of the problem that we have is the fact that if we wanted to do that, the fact is that we wanted to make sure it would not be HST-applicable because there is no use for us to be entering into an agency agreement whereby the federal government would force us to pay HST. We have not yet resolved that issue and because of that we have not yet entered into an agency agreement, but I think it's important that we note our intent is, if it is possible, to do it, but if the HST problem continues then probably we will not be able to enter into that type of agreement. There may be another alternative to that, but at present I can't tell you of any that are on the table.
MR. DOWNE: The retroactivity issue - it appears that we never got full retroactivity in the negotiations. Obviously we've given up tens of millions of dollars to get a deal. I would ask, when you table the deal itself, the contractual agreement between the provinces, it was first brought to our attention by the Auditor General that the original agreement wasn't as good as it could have been - I believe it was the Buchanan Government that actually got into that agreement in the first place, that signed the first agreement - I think it would only be prudent to have a third party review again, either the AG or an independent auditor to take a look at the new arrangement just to make sure that those other provinces aren't possibly trying to take advantage of the very hard work that you as minister and, of course, your very competent staff are doing with regard to working with ALC. So my question is would you entertain either the AG or an independent auditor to review the new arrangement to make sure that we're getting value for money?
MR. LEBLANC: This is an ongoing question that I get from the member opposite. I will say that we will make the new agreement public, and I think as a matter of fact in my estimation we have made it public. If he wants more information, I have no problem with it because basically all four provinces have signed it. This is a public document - there's no problem whatsoever.
The fact is, the reason that we got the changes is because of the problems that were identified by the Auditor General, and as such we have made the changes which dealt with the fact that we were not being treated fairly. The Auditor General periodically does reviews. If he wants to do reviews, then obviously we will co-operate with him, but I don't see any need for us to be referring this to the Auditor General. I should point out that there is a lot of work being done on that and we try to work with them to try to ensure, as a government, that when he does reviews and there are improvements to be made, that we will concur with them. We try to make improvements - to say a government has everything figured out and we don't have any improvements to make, I don't think I could say that and have anybody concur with those comments.
With regard specifically to the question that has been asked by the member opposite, the deal, when he looks at it, if he hasn't looked at it, I think it's very clearly outlined that we have addressed the failings of the previous agreement. The member is right - I believe it
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was signed during the Conservative Administration of Mr. Buchanan. The fact is, at that time when they signed it they never really thought that a lot of these issues would come up. Gaming is much more complex than it was back then. When they first signed this agreement, it was probably just straight lottery tickets and maybe the 649, so since that time many events have happened. That's probably to a great extent why the discrepancy came that Nova Scotia wasn't being treated fairly.
When I give the information I will make it all public and the members opposite can look at it, and I think that will suffice.
MR. DOWNE: What the minister is really saying is trust me. Trust me, I know better; I know we got a good deal; I know we got the best deal; and I know that we don't need to have anybody else check to make sure we got a good deal. I will look at the report and I will continue to ask the minister to make sure that we have an independent assessment to make sure that the negotiations are in fact fair and just to Nova Scotians.
That's all the Atlantic Loto questions I had, gaming questions, so I do respect Ms. Mullally's circumstances, situation, and I think she should probably have the afternoon off and go home and relax. I will say that I think the members and the individuals who work over there do a great job. Just keeping track of what's happening in Nova Scotia is a huge job and I want to compliment the staff. For the few months that I had a chance to work with them, they were a very dedicated staff and I know Ms. Mullally's leadership is well-respected in the industry and I want to compliment her and to the members. (Applause)
Now, Mr. Minister, back to you. Yesterday in the House I asked about the $15 million that the Minister of Health said you got, and I think you responded that I don't have it in my budget, but it's somewhere. So you've had 24 hours to find where the $15 million is that the Minister of Health was referring to, can you inform us now as to where that $15 million that should have been spent - I understand by the year ended March 2002 - what the status of that is?
MR. LEBLANC: We did finish late last night and we did have Treasury Board this morning, so I'm probably not as up-to-date as I should be on the question. I appreciate that the member put it forward. I do know that with regard to the $15 million of the health investment fund - I think it's along those lines - that in the estimates of the Department of Health there is $2 million towards the amortization of those investments that are made. I will endeavour as quickly as possible to get the information on the other aspect of it, and a more detailed answer to the member opposite with regard specifically to the equipment that he's referring to.
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[3:00 p.m.]
MR. DOWNE: I understood there was some $30.4 million that was confirmed, and this is money that came down to Health, I believe it was for capital, medical equipment, and I believe that was federal money. Fifteen million of it was spent. There's $15 million that's outstanding. It was to be spent in the year 2001-02 and we just can't seem to find where that money is. Maybe you can clarify that. I know there are a number of articles in different newspapers from across the nation. We are trying to clarify if this was just a slush fund established or was this actually money that was supposed to be put into capital equipment, or was this actually money that you used to give back to the DHAs as part of the $22.5 million bailout you recently announced?
MR. LEBLANC: Mr. Chairman, in regard to the $15 million that he's referring to, as I mentioned before, first of all I will give him a more detailed answer in regard to it, but I should point out that under the Department of Health, there will be purchases made for that $15 million within the district health authorities. As for the specifics of it, obviously I don't have that within the Department of Finance. The Department of Health, I'm sure, can produce a list for him, and I will try to work with my colleague, the Minister of Health, to get a listing of where those capital expenditures will be made. I think that the question that he asked is more than reasonable and I will endeavour to do that.
MR. DOWNE: We had to go through a freedom of information request and we learned that the minister had spent the first half of the money. There's the Minister of Health right there, you can just grab him and ask him the question. He doesn't know where the other $15 million is. You don't know where the other $15 million went . . .
AN HON. MEMBER: The Minister of Community Services probably took it.
MR. DOWNE: Well maybe the Minister of Community Services could use the money. I know that the Minister of Tourism could certainly use some of it, $200,000 of it to do something with Tourism and the Arts Council. But, Mr. Minister, this question is not new, this has been brought up with the Minister of Health on a number of occasions. It's been brought up in Question Period; it's been brought to your attention. You were around most of the time when those discussions were carried on. I would think that you would be concerned if there is $15 million floating around - or a senior Cabinet Minister is indicating that he doesn't have it, but somehow or other the Minister of Finance has gotten this $15 million and he's done something with it, but he doesn't know what the Minister of Finance is doing, we better ask him when his turn comes up - that you would have come here prepared for that question.
That's a very serious amount of money - $15 million. So we either have to keep you here until the four hours is up to get an answer, or can we get a commitment that we're going to find out by tomorrow morning, or tomorrow before Question Period, what happened to
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that $15 million? Where did it go? What was it spent on? We know that the total amount of money was $30.4 million by the notes that we have, and we understand the first $15 million has been spent, but the other $15 million has gone into a black hole somewhere. Somebody's got it. Somebody spent it or somebody's hiding it or somebody used it for something else. We want to know the answer to that. Will you commit to provide that information tomorrow morning?
MR. LEBLANC: Mr. Chairman, that funding that we're talking about here is what has been forwarded by the federal government in regard to capital purchases. Now there have been other provinces, supposedly, when we hear about this, that have actually bought lawn mowers with it. We haven't bought lawn mowers in Nova Scotia. The fact of the matter is that we will be supplying a detailed list from the federal government in regard to those purchases. The first $15 million, staff are telling me the listing has already been reported to the federal government. The other $15 million that is there will be supplied also. The fact of the matter is that I don't have a list of what the capital purchases were that were made in regard to that, that will be determined through the Department of Health. Finance doesn't determine which capital purchases are made for Health; I don't think anyone in this House would believe that the Department of Finance will be choosing medical equipment for our hospitals or our health system in Nova Scotia.
The member opposite is asking for the list, and I told him that I would provide that after I had a chance to talk to the Department of Health. Here in my seat as the Minister of Finance, I don't have that information.
MR. DOWNE: Mr. Chairman, the Minister of Health doesn't know where the $15 million went, the Minister of Finance doesn't know where the money went; maybe the fiddler over in the corner knows where the money went. But this place here deserves to know where the $15 million went; Ottawa wants to know where the money went. Now the reality is that this is federal money. I understood it was to be spent by the year ended March 2002. If that's the case, how can that money, if it was spent, not be allocated in regard to specific areas? If it hasn't been spent, then that minister has some sort of a federal cash fund of $15 million that he's sitting on, and it poses the question, has the minister got a trust fund or a slush fund or a capital fund or a health fund of money buried somewhere else that he can use for a rainy day? I don't know. That's the question we are trying to find out.
The Minister of Health doesn't seem to know where it is and the Minister of Finance doesn't know where it is. It's got to be somewhere. Under GAAP, I would think that if he had $15 million extra from Ottawa, he would have to declare it somewhere. I would like to know, where in the books does he show where that $15 million is? If he doesn't know where it's gone, where is it allocated? Where is it in the budget? Show me, Mr. Minister.
[Page 562]
MR. LEBLANC: Mr. Chairman, I've said on three different occasions and I will repeat it a fourth time, this is a trust fund that has been forwarded to us by Ottawa. The fact of the matter is that it is going to be audited. It also has to have a listing provided to Ottawa in regard to the purchases that will be made in regard to this. So the fact of the matter is that I will provide the list for the honourable member opposite, but I shall also say that under the federal guidelines that we receive this money, we have to ensure that it is spent as dictated, and it shall be.
MR. DOWNE: So, Mr. Minister, you admit that you have a trust fund. You have a $30.4 million federal trust fund and $15 million of that has been spent, so there's about $15 million in a trust fund somewhere. Now can you tell me, where is this trust fund located?
MR. LEBLANC: Mr. Chairman, the trust was established with Montreal Trust, that's where it is.
MR. DOWNE: Mr. Chairman, there's a fund established at the Montreal Trust. Now, Mr. Minister, this trust account that you have established over there, why doesn't it show up on the books of the province if it's an asset that you have under your control that will be delegated and administered eventually by the Minister of Health, that was supposed to have been done last year?
MR. LEBLANC: Mr. Chairman, I want to go back to the points that I have made in regard to this. This is a trust fund that was provided to the Province of Nova Scotia. The member opposite says $30 million. It's $30 million, I think, plus the interest that has accrued. I believe it's $30.4 million or whatever, and I think he made reference to it. The first component of it was $15 million and as such the purchases were made and the report went to the federal government and that also was audited. The second component of it was $15 million whereby capital purchases were also going to be provided and, as such, I have committed to the member that I will get the listing in regard to the capital projects that it entails. I made that commitment to the member opposite and I will provide it to him.
MR. DOWNE: I understand, Mr. Minister, there's a substantial wish list of where that $15 million could be spent. You parked this trust fund; you've had that trust fund parked over there for some time, and it's accruing interest, as you said. We've figured it out to $30.4 million and I think that's a reasonably accurate number; $15 million has been spent. The Minister of Health has a wish list of capital items of probably $30 million to $50 million.
AN HON. MEMBER: More than that.
MR. DOWNE: More than that? Well, the minister knows that he has a list over there of an amount of money.
[Page 563]
The bottom line is that the list has not been finalized and this Minister of Finance has been sitting on $15 million of capital that is specifically geared to use to help deliver health care and find out how we can make the health care system run more efficiently. My question to the minister, how can you sit idly by, parking $15 million of federal dollars in a bank account, in a trust account at the Bank of Montreal, and let people wait for equipment to be purchased by the Minister of Health when he has been begging for more money for equipment?
MR. LEBLANC: Mr. Chairman, I'm aware that many institutions that we have in Nova Scotia have demands that probably greatly outstrip the capacity of government to fund them. It doesn't matter whether or not it's in my area or whether or not it's in some other area. I believe I read in The Chronicle-Herald the other day that the demands even from the capital region are immense because you have a lot of the specialities here, and I'm sure your colleague, the member for Dartmouth East, is much more aware of it than I am in his capacity as former Minister of Health and also as a physician.
The fact is, Mr. Chairman, we also have limited resources to do all the things that we want. When the member opposite talks about the demands that we have in Health, I should also point out that we have many demands in many other areas in the capital side of government, one which is roads, another is schools, and the member opposite, I will use the member for Dartmouth-Cole Harbour - I think that's the right terminology - talking about the fact of the schools and all the wish lists that we have - I shouldn't call them wish lists . . .
MR. CHAIRMAN: It's Cole Harbour-Eastern Passage.
MR. LEBLANC: Cole Harbour-Eastern Passage? Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and the fact that we have (Interruptions) I believe he said $0.5 billion. Well, I'm sure if I was to speak to my colleague, the Minister of Education, the number of $0.5 billion would be a little low on what the demand is, and the fact of the matter is that we have a lot of sick schools. We have a lot of schools which are becoming older. We have a lot of schools in areas of huge demand, the growth areas, and I know I speak to members around metropolitan HRM that are having areas which are just booming and we're going to have to be building new schools to accommodate that. Those are all challenges that we have as a government. Can we meet every wish that is out there? Not for a second.
The fact of the matter is, Mr. Chairman, that in this budget we have increased capital spending considerably. The fact is though, we also have to be reasonable on how much we go and borrow. The member opposite is the one who is always saying that this year we're actually going to be borrowing more money - one of the reasons that we are is that we have made a very conscious decision to increase our capital spending. Why do we do that? Well we did it for a number of reasons, one of which is, especially in regard to roads, we believe that we couldn't wait anymore. The fact of the matter is that when you look at the situation
[Page 564]
of our roads deteriorating, could we as the Province of Nova Scotia, in all good conscience, wait anymore?
Now, people have said to us the federal government has taken $140 million out of the system here in federal excise tax. That's when Nova Scotians gas up at the pumps, they know that the province is getting some of that money, Mr. Chairman, but I'm not sure that a lot of them understand that Ottawa is getting a lot of money and the fact they get 10 cents of every litre when people go to the pumps. Now, that 10 cents is a lot of money and it equates to, I think the last time we calculated it it was $143 million that we as a province, as Nova Scotians pay to Ottawa, and I believe last year we got $6 million or $7 million, and the year before that I think it was $4 million or $5 million in return.
[3:15 p.m.]
We've been waiting, and I should say that I'm not alone in the fact of this, Mr. Chairman, for the federal government to come back to the table and say that they will partake in a national infrastructure program in regard to roads. We've had a few bits here and there, but the fact is they have not come to the table and even contemplated putting a bit of the money they receive on that federal excise tax back into the road systems of Nova Scotia or other provinces. I'm not alone when I make this comment - my peers, my colleagues across the country are also facing challenges in regard to maintaining infrastructure.
When I hear Mr. Martin talk about the fact of the decisions that they make to generate the economy, I ask - well one of the things that generates a good economy is a good infrastructure, whether or not it be roads, or whether or not it be airports, or ports, but at the same time roads are a major issue and we have made a conscious decision in this budget to increase gas tax 2 cents. Now, 2 cents, a lot of people are saying, why should we do that? We made the determination that we would increase it because we had to put more money into roads and we did it, and the fact is we did that $23 million plus another $10 million. So we put $33 million more new dollars into the capital program for roads and the fact is we had to stand up and be counted for that decision.
Are we prepared to do that? The answer is yes and we have, but the bottom line is for ourselves, and going back to the question of the member opposite, have we met all the demands that are in the medical field for new equipment, I don't think we could. If we put probably all the capital budget of the province, we probably wouldn't meet all the demands of all the hospitals across the province, especially those in the capital region because that's probably where the biggest demands are.
MR. DOWNE: Mr. Minister, I'm not talking about fuel tax; I'm not talking about paving roads; I'm talking about this trust fund, slush fund, that you've got established that Ottawa gave you money for. You talk about not getting enough money from Ottawa. Well, you've gotten money from Ottawa - $30 million - and you parked it and you used $15 million
[Page 565]
over the last three years and you've got another $15-plus million sitting there waiting to be used.
Do you mean to say that you can sit here and tell Nova Scotians about the fact that the federal transfer payments on road fuel tax is more important than the fact that you've got $15 million in an account, from Ottawa, for the purpose of health delivery, and you haven't used it and you are now controlling the Minister of Health's portfolio by not allowing him to have money for MRIs, money for CAT scans - that a CAT scan broke down in Kentville - that we're talking about people's lives, we're talking about a bone densitometer, any kind of capital at all it could have been used for, that Minister of Health could have used it to save lives or help people, and that Minister of Finance stuck it in a trust account, a slush fund in the Bank of Montreal, and it has been there for over a year idly sitting by waiting for the Minister of Finance to okay the list that the Minister of Health has yet to come forward with, who talks about the priorities for where that $15 million goes, and that Minister of Finance has the gall to stand up here and talk about Ottawa and transfer payments?
I'm talking about his slush fund for health care that he is not spending and I ask the question, why is it all of a sudden the Minister of Finance is sitting on $15 million in a trust fund that will not allow the Minister of Health to deliver on the commitment that he made in providing health delivery in Nova Scotia? How can he justify sitting back with that money, unless of course he is saving it for maybe their ideas of privatizing health care and using that $15 million for a private investment in private health care in Nova Scotia?
MR. LEBLANC: Mr. Chairman, I listened to the comments of the member opposite, and as usual he's off-key, but the fact is this is debate and everyone is entitled to their opinion. That's one thing about this House of Assembly, everyone is entitled to speak, and because of that I respect the member's right to express his opinion whether I agree with it or not. The fact of the matter is I did point out that we have challenges in capital. For the member opposite to say that we as a government have no compassion for people receiving health care is not true. The fact is in this budget we put $134 million more in health and we put $23 million more in education. Those are our priorities - and we also put more money in roads.
Now, whether you have a problem with that, I don't. The fact is, Mr. Chairman, we need infrastructure in this province. The fact is that we will make those investments in regard of the medical equipment and I have committed to the member that I will provide the list. The fact is I did point out to the member opposite that the demands that are in that sector probably outstrip the capacity for us to deliver at this time.
That is the same thing in schools, Mr. Chairman; that is the same thing probably in the buildings that we should be building in this province to provide services to Nova Scotia; and it is the same thing as in roads. We have limited capacity to do all the things that we want, and why is that? One of the reasons is that in the past we lived beyond our means. I've
[Page 566]
said to the member opposite that I was part of governments that did that. The fact is we are where we are and we have to move forward. We've made some difficult decisions. He, as a member of a previous administration, made some difficult decisions and I didn't agree with a lot of them. The fact of the matter is that we're making the decisions now and we will make them in order to have a future for this province and, for that, I make no apologies.
MR. DOWNE: I wish the minister would stay to comparing apples and apples here. Nobody's arguing about the need for capital in every area that you want to talk about. My comment to you, Mr. Minister, through you, Mr. Chairman, is that you've got $15 million that was supposed to be spent by the year ended March 31, 2002. It wasn't spent. You had the money for two years. You had $30 million, I believe, for approximately two years. Approximately $15 million has been spent; the other $15 million has not been spent. You stuck that money in a trust account and it was there specifically for capital investments in health care, not for anything else, but for health care. That capital investment in health care was for things like new technologies that would reduce the waiting list for individuals requiring health care. It was there to help make the Health Department more efficient. It was there to help provide better health delivery to Nova Scotians. You have sat back on $30 million for a couple of years for which $15 million has only been spent.
Now there are two issues here. Number one is that you had a year to spend the last $15 million and you didn't do it. That is a question, why you didn't spend that money during that period of time, because the year ended was March 31, 2002. The second issue is are you now telling everybody in Nova Scotia that the Minister of Health isn't responsible for the capital expenditures in his department, it is only when you bless it that it will go forward? Is that what you're doing?
MR. LEBLANC: Mr. Chairman, as a government, we will make decisions and we will live with them. I want to point out that for the member opposite, to say that we will use a trust fund - I think he used the word slush fund - this is a trust fund that has been provided for by the federal government that is going to be audited by the federal government. We have been given parameters and purposes for that trust fund and that's what it shall be spent for.
MR. DOWNE: Mr. Minister, it's being audited and we talk about transparency of the books and everything else, I don't know how many people in Nova Scotia realize that the minister, I don't even know how many front bench members know that the Minister of Finance has $15 million in a trust account - his words - in the Bank of Montreal. That trust account was originally $30 million, for which half of it's been spent for capital and Health. The other half has yet to be spent because we haven't got a list. Now I want to ask the minister, do you have any other trust accounts around the Province of Nova Scotia or outside the boundaries of Nova Scotia that I'm not aware of, or that this House is not aware of, that came from whatever source it might have come from? Have you got other trust accounts or slush accounts somewhere else in the province that we're not aware of?
[Page 567]
MR. LEBLANC: Mr. Chairman, I stand today to talk about the fact of how we reported our statements. We have the most open and transparent financial statements, due in large part to the gentleman to my right, Kevin Malloy, who is the Controller of the Province of Nova Scotia, who's worked tirelessly to make the changes. I should say that many of the changes that we made, to say they were time-consuming is an understatement. The fact that Mr. Malloy endeavoured to do that is a tribute to him and I guess, in sense, we should apologize to his family for the amount of time he put in it. Even last year he continued to work from home after having back surgery. It's like taking "one for the Gipper". I have to thank him very much for that.
The fact is, Mr. Chairman, if that the member is asking me whether or not there are other trust funds that we don't know, the answer, of course, is no. This is not the previous administration's accounting on how we dealt with Sysco, NSRL and a lot of these other things that were basically off book. We've made changes to the statements of the Province of Nova Scotia which brought about the consolidation form. Now for people who forget or don't understand what that is, it means that everything is in, it is all-inclusive. We have even made provisions for the reclamation of the site of Sydney Steel. We have made provisions in our books for the reclamation of the Muggah Creek site. Yesterday I was being asked questions by the NDP Finance Critic about the fact that I'm even showing contingents, liabilities. That is all information that should be shown on the financial statements of the Province of Nova Scotia and that's the type of thing that people should expect from the government, and that's what we deliver.
MR. DOWNE: Mr. Chairman, I too compliment your staff. I think you're very fortunate to have members of your staff who are as competent and capable as they are, both on your right and your left, although the one on your immediate left is a little ailing today. He had a hard soccer game with a child yesterday, I understand. He's got a sore foot, probably. They're family people and they're great people and I think you're very fortunate, but it doesn't answer the question here that you've got $15 million in a trust fund that you didn't spend. Now I want to table for the members of this House a document that shows that Nova Scotia has $15.1 million that was to be spent in the year 2001-02; $15.1 million for capital, a total amount of $30.4 million, plus interest, whatever the interest is that you got from this fund. I ask if you would photocopy a few of those because we all would like to see that.
The bottom line, Mr. Minister, is that you have an account, a trust account, a slush account, a ministerial account, a discretionary account, it's a capital account. I know there are federal guidelines. But do you know what? There's a list of items that you could be using that money on, but instead you let it sit there. Now I want to ask a question, Mr. Minister. Where does it show up in the budget presentation that you have a trust account of federal money gaining interest sitting at the Bank of Montreal to the tune of over $15 million? Where does it show up in your Budget Address or your budget information; where does that $15 million plus interest show up in your books?
[Page 568]
MR. LEBLANC: Mr. Chairman, in regard to the $15 million he's referring to, within the Department of Health there is a provision for amortization on that $15 million in this fiscal year of the purchases that we will make, and that is the line item that is included in the amortization expense within the Department of Health.
MR. DOWNE: Mr. Minister, you had that money last year, where does it show up in your account last year if the minister was supposed to spend the money last year? You are showing that he's spending $15 million in capital this year. We don't have a list of what those capital items are and we don't have a list of where he spent the money - well we know what he spent the last $15 million on - where does it show up that you had this trust account for an extra $15 million?
MR. LEBLANC: Mr. Chairman, with regard to that, can the honourable member opposite repeat the question. I just want to make sure that I have it right, that's all.
[3:30 p.m.]
MR. DOWNE: What were you doing, telling your colleagues a joke back there or something, when I asked you? Here's the book. It has down here, for the estimates for the year 2002-03, on the issue of Medical Equipment Trust Fund. It does not show a cent, yet you're telling me you've got $15 million stuck in this trust account. Did you spend it? If you didn't spend it, why don't you show it? In estimates, under Health, Page 15.18, it shows here your Estimate and Forecast, but you show nothing with regard to what you're going to spend the money on for the year 2002-03. So the question we've been asking is, where is the money? We found out today that it's in a trust account at the Bank of Montreal; you have $15 million plus interest still left over, but there's no allocation of where that money's going. Can you inform the House of where that money's going?
MR. LEBLANC: Mr. Chairman, I refer the member to Page 15.12, the Supplementary Detail. With regard to Provincial Programs at the top level there - this is the top of the page - of the $12.664 million in the estimates here there is approximately $2 million of amortization regarding $15 million of purchases that we will make with regard to the medical equipment. That is what I was referring to a while ago.
I also want to point out in regard to the purchases we will make with regard to this trust fund which was provided to us by Ottawa, I want to re-emphasize one last time for the member that the trust fund is very specific as to how the purchases are to be made. There have been some problems in other provinces that the purchases have supposedly been made and have been questionable. I want to point out to the member opposite that the first purchases that were done that were submitted to Ottawa had no problems with it and we will have no problems with the purchases that we make with regard to the second $15 million of purchases that we will be making.
[Page 569]
MR. DOWNE: Mr. Chairman, to the minister, it still doesn't answer the question. In your estimates for capital for this trust fund for the year 2002-03, it's zero. Under the terms and conditions that I pointed out, in the money that came down from Ottawa - this is the Paul Martin bailout for you that you've had ever since you've been there - it talks about different types of equipment, CT scanners, MRIs, it could also acquire to improve overall quality of health care. Well, you could drive a Mack truck through that. It could cover a lot of different areas - and working conditions for nurses and other health care professionals. So that money could be used for almost anything. My question to you is, where is the $15 million, that trust account money that was originally intended - and it was stated here by the minister that it was going to be used for capital purchases, have you turned it into something else? What did you do with the money, Mr. Minister?
MR. LEBLANC: Mr. Chairman, I go back, I've repeated this many different times. It is a trust fund. It is to be drawn down to the conditions of the trust fund. We've stated that we will do that. The purchases that we made on this will comply with the trust fund. I think Mr. Martin has put in place conditions for those purchases and we will abide by that.
MR. DOWNE: Mr. Chairman, the bottom line is that I'm just trying to ferret out - the term used by your Leader - what happened to the $15 million. I want it to be noted on the record when the Minister of Health was asked in estimates by my colleague, our Health Critic, where did that $15 million go, that Minister of Health, on the record, indicated he didn't know where it was; he didn't even know where the money was. If there was a list going to be prepared of capital, as I understand it, if I recall correctly from the deliberations in this Chamber, now the Minister of Health has yet to come forward with an explanation as to where this trust fund of $15 million has gone. We know where the first $15 million went, but we don't know where the second $15 million went. So, the minister said he's going to report back. We will give him some time to report back as to what that list will be (Interruptions)
It's not complete yet? The Minister of Health has just informed us that the list has not been completed yet. So the bottom line is that we haven't got the list completed, we don't know where the $15 million is going; they don't even have it on the books that they even have $15 million left in a trust fund to be spent for that fiscal year. I will wait to hear with interest. I would like to know the interest on that $30 million as well, by the way, and what the minister is going to do.
I have a couple of other questions. I wasn't planning taking this much time on this issue, but I think it's very clear that for a government that beats on their chest every day that they're open and accountable and everything else, we just found a $15 million trust account sitting over there waiting to be spent on health care and the Minister of Finance is dragging his proverbial feet on allocations of where those dollars are to be spent to provide better health care for which he's had that money, some $30 million, for a couple of years and he's only allocated half of it and he's missed the target deadline of when the other $15 million
[Page 570]
was to be spent; according to this statement here that came with the FOIPOP, that money should have been spent already. I understand it hasn't been, so it's sitting there.
Mr. Chairman, how much time do I have left?
MR. CHAIRMAN: You have approximately six minutes and 10 seconds.
MR. DOWNE: How time flies. Mr. Minister, capital projects, can you explain to this House how capital projects are approved by your department?
MR. LEBLANC: Mr. Chairman, just talking to staff, there's a TCA committee, tangible capital assets committee, that's made up of individuals across government - engineers, senior officials and so forth - which makes recommendations. I should point out that I did mention before to the member opposite that there is limited capacity for government to deal with all the requests that come in. I know that (Interruptions) The member opposite says that he knows that in spades. The fact is, on the capital side we have limited ability to really deal with all the demands that are coming forward. As a rule, oftentimes one of the ones that hits us most is roads. It's one that I guess we all get more phone calls on, looking at this as a rural member versus an urban member. Urban members probably don't get the phone calls about roads because, obviously, most of them are dealt with municipally. When you live in a rural riding you get a lot of phone calls and, obviously, we're all trying to deal with them.
The fact is, in regard to that, that is how it starts. Obviously there's a process that goes forward from that. Cabinet will have to eventually make a determination and sign off on it, but that is how it begins and maybe the member opposite would have some more specifics and, if I can accommodate him, I will do the best I can.
MR. DOWNE: I'm sure the member for Preston, if he gets his wish with regard to the restructuring, he might not even be around to worry about those phone calls, Mr. Minister. Does the Minister of Finance have the final say? It appears that the Minister of Finance has the final say with regard to capital when it comes to health. That's been apparent here today. It's been proven, you've even admitted to it today. My question to you, Mr. Minister, do you, as Minster of Finance, have the final say with regard to capital for other departments; if so, which departments do you have the final say on with regard to capital?
MR. LEBLANC: I'm surprised by that question. As a former Minister of Finance, for him to say that I would even guess to have or to even talk about trying to gather that much influence of power within Cabinet, is wrong. Mr. Chairman, Cabinet is made up of a group of individuals, collectively we will make decisions. I've noted on numerous questions by members opposite that they're saying, didn't you ask the Minister of Finance for more money. I won't get specific as to who asked the question. We're going to make decisions collectively. Any Cabinet that is run properly will do it that way. Our government works on
[Page 571]
a consensus. The fact of the matter is we all have portfolios that we bring forward collectively to the Cabinet Table, we put them on the table and collectively we will make a decision. I don't have the final say on how things work. We do that collectively as Cabinet.
MR. DOWNE: Mr. Minister, ultimately every minister has a responsibility to run their department. I'm talking specifically about capital, and that's a huge issue. I think you understand, above all, what I was referring to, not the day-to-day running of a department. It's clear that you have the last word in the allocation of the $15 million in this trust fund or happy-day fund that you have for Health. My question is, are there any other funds established for capital around the province that I'm not aware of, that aren't obviously written up? Secondly, do you have the final say with regard to the capital allocation in any other department? I'm talking about large capital purchases.
MR. LEBLANC: Mr. Chairman, I thought I had answered the question the first time, I will do it again. (Interruptions) But it's not a yes or no answer. The member opposite talks about the fact as to whether or not I run the Department of Health or whether or not we run any department here in regard to capital, not operating. I don't think the member opposite said that I would run the operating divisions of others, I want to say if you took that inference from my answer, the first one, that wasn't what I was saying.
In regard to the capital, collectively we sat down as a Cabinet. I should point out that the budgeting process has changed somewhat from where we were before, in the sense that the Treasury Board has also become involved. That is a change we've had in government that wasn't there during your time. The fact of the matter is that the Treasury Board's role is also to help us in regard to trying to compile the budget and prepare it, but it's also going to be playing a role in making sure the departments basically conform to the targets that they have, to make sure that they're informed.
If they want to make some changes in their spending, that they come forward and make some rational arguments for changing it, and where they're going to change it somewhere else. Too many times governments or departments go on their own and change it, and I don't think anybody thinks that's a good idea. Do I have the final say? The answer is no.
MR. DOWNE: Mr. Minister, regarding the fact that you have the Treasury Board and yourself, and you know what you're doing with capital and allocations of capital, would the minister table to this House the capital spending and construction plans for the province for the upcoming year? That is the capital construction plan.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Order, please. That concludes the questions from the member for Lunenburg West, if the minister wants to respond to that question.
MR. LEBLANC: Mr. Chairman, I will endeavour to do that for the member.
[Page 572]
MR. CHAIRMAN: Are there any further questions? Then the Minister of Finance would like to have a moment to do a wrap-up. (Interruptions)
[3:45 p.m.]
The honourable member for Lunenburg West.
MR. DOWNE: I don't have a lot of questions left, Mr. Minister, but under Acadian Affairs you had put out an application, there was an employment opportunity. I understand that position has been filled. Can you table to the House the contract for that individual - salary and all the other amenities that will be going with the contract?
MR. LEBLANC: Mr. Chairman, I have no problem doing that. The individual who was hired was Réal Samson. It was an open competition, and he was the successful candidate. He has signed a contract with the Province of Nova Scotia, it is for three years. His duties will commence, I believe, some time in June; June 15th or June 30th. He's presently working with the Southwest Regional School Board. He has to tidy things up before coming on. I should point out that I have a committee in the Acadian community that I deal with.
One of the recommendations they had was, rather than filling the position with a full-time normal-type of employee, it should be for a term of three years. There has been quite a bit of turnover in this post. They felt that it should be an open competition. We complied with that. They stated that it should be a contract for three years. We also complied with that. The member opposite has asked whether we will make it public, and I commit today that I will do so.
MR. DOWNE: So the answer is that you will table the contract. Can you table it this week?
MR. LEBLANC: Mr. Chairman, I am assuming there should be no problem tabling it. I will say publicly here today that whatever I can table in regard to that contract, I will table.
MR. DOWNE: Mr. Minister, two quick snappers here. You talk about growing the economy, the need for more money. You talk about Ottawa not doing its share, in your view, even though we just showed trust funds of millions of dollars that you're sitting on. Recently Mr. Martin floated the idea of establishing a special tax break for Atlantic Canada. Number one, has the minister followed up on Mr. Martin's comments? Have you written the minister with regard to any more detail with regard to that? Secondly, can the minister explain to me why he hasn't taken the opportunity to meet Mr. Martin recently in regard to building alliances with economic opportunities for Nova Scotia?
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MR. LEBLANC: Mr. Chairman, first of all, Mr. Martin was in town last week, to announce that the G-7 and the G-8 would be having their meetings here in Nova Scotia and, as such, he was here to make that announcement. I was asked why I didn't meet with him. He has indicated before that he was coming. There are meetings happening this very same week in Cornerbrook, Newfoundland, that will happen on Thursday and Friday. I anticipate that the vote on the budget will come on Thursday. After having the vote, I will be trying to take a fast boat to China to get there so that I can have the vote.
In regard to the idea that Mr. Martin talked about floating an idea about a different tax rate, that was in regard to a question from a gentleman from Cape Breton who asked whether or not he would consider a different tax rate for that area. I think it was at the chamber of commerce meeting. I remember hearing it. I know the member opposite was present when Mr. Martin made it. He stated that oftentimes it hadn't worked, that he would keep an open mind with regard to it. If I'm wrong about my recollection, maybe the member opposite could say it.
Mr. Chairman, I will be saying, collectively as an area of the Atlantic Provinces, the four ministers have been working closely together to try to work collectively on an approach with Ottawa. Obviously, on a one-to-one basis it hasn't worked, and Mr. Martin has stated repeatedly that we should work as a region, an individual basis is not how he wants to approach the provinces in Atlantic Canada.
MR. DOWNE: Mr. Chairman, Mr. Martin has indicated, as the minister has accurately stated, the willingness to find opportunities for Atlantic Canada, to build self-reliance and to build compliance and to build economic stability. The Minister of Finance has laid out the olive branch to the minister to do something about it. I have written the Minister of Finance. I believe the Minister of Finance has not written Mr. Martin in that regard. I would say that if this government wants to do anything to build economic prosperity for the Province of Nova Scotia, they should be dealing with Ottawa, and they should be writing the minister when he throws out these ideas, whether they are substantive ideas or whether they are floater ideas. The Minister of Finance in this country is saying to Atlantic Canada, come to me, don't bring out these postcards on equalization, but come up with some other ideas, I want to work with you. The question I would ask of the Minister of Finance is, why hasn't the Minister of Finance taken the opportunity to pursue that option?
MR. LEBLANC: Mr. Chairman, I'm a little perplexed to hear the comments from the member opposite. Are we growing the economy in Nova Scotia? The answer is yes. Yesterday you talked about the fact of the exceptional growth that we had here. He also talked about the fact of the very small growth that was there in 1993. Are we doing things right? The answer is yes.
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The fact of the matter, Mr. Chairman, if you want to get into a discussion about how Ottawa treats the Atlantic Provinces, I'm more than willing to debate the issue. If you want to get into the details, I'm more than willing to enter the debate as to whether or not Ottawa is giving the Atlantic Provinces its fair share, any place, any time, because the fact of the matter is that they have basically bailed out on most of the core services that they provide to Nova Scotia. What are they? They're health, higher education, social services, equalization and highways. The fact of the matter is there are a lot of different issues here that we could talk about.
Mr. Chairman, if you want to talk about those types of issues and what's Mr. Martin's role in those things, I'm more than prepared to talk about it. The fact of the matter is the issue that he talked about was an answer to a question from a gentleman from Cape Breton as to whether or not he would give preferential treatment to that area and he stated, if I remember, not verbatim, that usually those things don't work, but he would keep an open mind. Now, I tend to think that that is more an off-the-cuff comment than anything else. If we're going to work collectively with Mr. Martin, it's going to be as a group of Atlantic Provinces. Some of those provinces happen to be represented by Liberal Governments. I'm prepared to work with them as well as I am with the provinces that are Progressive Conservative.
The fact of the matter is, Mr. Chairman, that many of the things I talked about that was Ottawa's role in regard to health education, social services, you know, a lot of people ask the question, what's the role of the federal government? Those are things that they should be partners in in this province. Why are we having problems in health care in this province? We are basically being challenged in the amount of money that we have to put into it and what's Ottawa's role in regard to health care? We could talk on that issue here, let alone for four hours in a day, we could talk forever. I know one thing, it's a lot more than what they're doing now and, member opposite, if you think that Ottawa is funding health care sufficiently, stand on your feet and say it.
AN HON. MEMBER: How would you put money in a system that's breaking down like you're allowing it to break down? That's the issue. You're misrepresenting what you're getting from Ottawa . . .
MR. DOWNE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman . . .
MR. CHAIRMAN: Order, please.
MR. DOWNE: Mr. Chairman, my question was simple to the minister and it wasn't meant to get him off in a rant and a rave about this or that. It was the opportunity for this minister to start fighting for Nova Scotians at the federal table and if he wants to hide behind the more powerful ministers from Newfoundland and New Brunswick, that's fine, but I thought he was a minister representing this province and when the federal minister is in town and when the federal minister is laying out opportunities for Nova Scotia to go forward, I
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thought that minister was strong enough to be able to stand up and fight for Nova Scotia and not hide behind somebody else. So my question to the minister was simple, what has he done to try to pursue opportunities for Nova Scotia.
Anyway, Mr. Chairman, that concludes my questioning to the Minister of Finance. I'm sure we'll have lots of fun over the next month or two in Question Period to pursue some of these other areas of trust funds and so on and so forth. So I thank the minister and his staff.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Are there any more questions for the Minister of Finance? Hearing no more questions for the Minister of Finance, would the Minister of Finance be prepared to wrap up?
MR. LEBLANC: Mr. Chairman, I have a lot of resolutions. I don't know whether you want me to read them all off. (Interruption) No, if you don't, okay, I'm not going to read them off. Whether or not you want me to list the resolutions, however, because most of them only have one - I have about 12. I'm not reading them all, but at least if I could list them all and leave the last one to stand, if that's agreeable, I will ask the members opposite.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Is that agreed?
The honourable member for Halifax Fairview.
MR. GRAHAM STEELE: Mr. Chairman, I would like to make one very brief remark in response to what the minister has said. No, Mr. Minister, you don't have to read them all, just listing them off is fine. We all have them in writing, I don't think you need to do that, but I do want to make one point.
In the questioning of you, Mr. Minister, we made the point that we believe that there has been an error in the appropriations vote for this year, that there should be a separate appropriation for the funding of hospitals. That appropriation does not appear anywhere and the best information that we have is that is an error and there should be a separate appropriation to fund the three hospital projects that the minister and I talked about, Mr. Chairman, and that does not appear anywhere in the appropriation votes that the minister is talking about. So, Mr. Minister, I mention that. We can go through these votes if you want, but we are saying very specifically the government has made a mistake and it would now be, if these budget votes pass, illegal for the government to allocate money to those hospital projects until they correct that mistake.
MR. LEBLANC: Mr. Chairman, I hear the comments of the member opposite. We've gone through these discussions during my estimates, but I will list the resolutions that I have here, but I want to go through them if I could.
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Resolution E8 - Resolved, that a sum not exceeding $1,009,881,000 be granted to the Lieutenant Governor to defray expenses in respect of Debt Servicing Costs, Department of Finance, pursuant to the Estimate.
Resolution E14 - Resolved, that a sum not exceeding $13,324,000 be granted to the Lieutenant Governor to defray expenses in respect of the Executive Council, pursuant to the Estimate.
Resolution E16 - Resolved, that a sum not exceeding $7,200,000 be granted to the Lieutenant Governor to defray expenses in respect of Government Contributions to Benefit Plans, pursuant to the Estimate.
Resolution E34 - Resolved, that a sum not exceeding $218,956,000 be granted to the Lieutenant Governor to defray expenses in respect of Capital Purchase Requirements, pursuant to the Estimate.
Resolution E35 - Resolved, that a sum not exceeding $16,114,000 be granted to the Lieutenant Governor to defray expenses in respect of Restructuring Costs, pursuant to the Estimate.
Resolution E36 - Resolved, that a sum not exceeding $294,545,000 be granted to the Lieutenant Governor to defray expenses in respect of Sinking Fund Instalments and Serial Retirements, pursuant to the Estimate.
Resolution E37 - Resolved, that the business plans of the Bedford Waterfront Development Corporation Limited, the Nova Scotia Film Development Corporation, the Nova Scotia Innovation Corporation, the Trade Centre Limited and the Waterfront Development Corporation be approved.
Resolution E38 - Resolved, that the business plan of the Halifax-Dartmouth Bridge Commission be approved.
Resolution E39 - Resolved, that the business plan of the Nova Scotia Gaming Corporation be approved.
Resolution E42 - Resolved, that the business plan of Nova Scotia Resources Ltd. be approved.
Resolution E43 - Resolved, that the business plan of Rockingham Terminal Inc. be approved.
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MR. CHAIRMAN: The House has heard the resolutions.
Shall the resolutions stand?
The resolutions are stood.
The honourable Deputy Government House Leader.
MR. WILLIAM DOOKS: Mr. Chairman, I call for the estimates of the Department of Economic Development.
Resolution E3 - Resolved, that a sum not exceeding $30,785,000 be granted to the Lieutenant Governor to defray expenses in respect of the Department of Economic Development, pursuant to the Estimate and the business plan of the Sydney Steel Corporation be approved.
MR. CHAIRMAN: The honourable Minister of Economic Development.
HON. GORDON BALSER: Mr. Chairman, I would like a few moments so staff can come down.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Certainly we will have one minute.
[3:58 p.m. The House recessed.]
[3:59 p.m. The House reconvened.]
MR. CHAIRMAN: The honourable Minister of Economic Development.
HON. GORDON BALSER: Mr. Chairman, on behalf of the number of departments and directorates for which I'm responsible, I welcome the chance to rise today and talk a bit about the estimates for which I'm responsible and before I begin I would like to introduce the two people on the floor and I would also indicate to the members opposite that from time to time there may well be line changes as the questions move from one area of responsibility to another. On my left is Sandy MacMullin with the Petroleum Directorate responsible for royalties and benefits. On my right is Paul Taylor. I imagine both these gentlemen are familiar to you.
I would like to take a bit of time in my opening remarks to lay out some of the things that have been happening in the areas for which I'm responsible over the last year and a bit. I can tell you that since September 11th, even though there was a slowdown in the economy worldwide, it's safe to say that many of the areas of this province's economy remained very strong and, in fact, that's a clear indication that the direction that we had established some
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years ago when we came to power were the right sectors to focus on. In fact, yesterday our strategic direction was corroborated by the Statistics Canada announcement that Nova Scotia was number two in GDP growth, second only to Alberta. That's $23.4 billion over 2000. In fact, we're only one of two provinces that showed that kind of growth.
[4:00 p.m.]
As I said last year, when I was talking about the Department of Economic Development at that time and the areas for which I'm responsible, I talked about the work that had been done in order to generate the strategic plan for economic development for this province. That was no easy task, Mr. Chairman, and we spent a great deal of time and effort and energy in making sure that we got that right. In fact, much of the work in the last year has been dedicated to putting that framework in place. A big part of that framework is linked to Nova Scotia Business Inc., which is a new Crown Corporation designed to manage and coordinate the province's front-line business development functions. Core business lines of that corporation are consistent with what . . .
MR. CHAIRMAN: Order, please. Could I ask the members to be quiet in the Chamber while the minister is doing his estimates.
MR. BALSER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, I appreciate that greatly. As I said, the core business lines of NSBI are reflective of what we heard through the consultation piece and what we put forward in our growth strategy. The core areas for NSBI focus on business attraction, trade promotion, lending and finance, business retention and expansion. As I said, NSBI is the vehicle charged with carrying out that part of economic growth. I'm pleased to say that NSBI very recently announced their five-year strategic plan, New Business Thinking.
I can tell you that there are already very tangible examples that their work is bearing fruit.
In March, the corporation announced a $500,000 investment in a convertible debenture position in Diaphonics. Diaphonics is a Halifax IT company involved in research to bring forward speech recognition and voice security technologies. Investing in Diaphonics is the kind of strategic investment that this government saw as the future in terms of economic growth. Just a few weeks ago, NSBI announced with Service Zone the creation of 700 new jobs to be shared between Queens, Annapolis and Digby Counties. We expect those jobs to be up and running by year end. Those are the kinds of investments that NSBI is making on behalf of the people of Nova Scotia.
Now, in keeping with what we established in our strategy, we recently announced additional changes to the Department of Economic Development. In fact, we now have merged the former Department of Economic Development with the Technology and Science Secretariat; they have become the Office of Economic Development . That brings together two organizations that we believe complement one another very well and also complement the work of the Petroleum Directorate, which will evolve into a new department of energy.
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We're also confident that the work undertaken by NSBI and the merger of Technology and Science Secretariat with the Department of Economic Development works very nicely with our other organizations for which I'm directly responsible: the Nova Scotia Film Development Corporation, the Waterfront Development Corporation, InNOVAcorp, and the World Trade and Convention Centre. Also, as I said already, we view this as working very well with the formation of the new energy department.
Mr. Chairman, this restructuring has taken a great deal of time. It's one that has been completed with a great deal of focus on the future and the possible implications. But, again, I want to comment a bit on some of the other things that have been going on through the good work of NSBI and the new Office of Economic Development . In July, Convergys, one of the most successful new-economy companies announced that it was expanding its presence here in Nova Scotia. They have created a state-of-the-art customer care centre in New Glasgow. Within three years, that facility will employ 265 more Nova Scotians. In fact, Convergys has a workforce of well over 2,000 in this province today. In September, Xerox Canada and I announced a new facility in Dartmouth. Just a few weeks ago, Xerox moved forward with the initial hirings. They've created a temporary location to begin the training that will see that workforce reach 600 by 2006.
All of our efforts are not related simply to the call centre industry. In fact, Able Clothing, a producer of active sportswear, announced they're going to create a payroll of $1 million annually in the Town of Yarmouth. That's going to be 60 jobs. Today, there are 20 people employed by that company in Yarmouth. In fact, that company is ahead of its job targets. The Town of Glace Bay welcomed Stream not that long ago. A global company, Stream has established a customer interaction centre in Glace Bay that I believe they acknowledge as being the best in class in their entire corporate enterprise.
Mr. Chairman, tracking new business is only part of what the Office of Economic Development working with NSBI has been doing. Again, in Cape Breton, last April, Tesma Precision Finished Components unveiled a $45 million expansion project in North Sydney. That will add 100 new jobs and bring the workforce at Tesma to 215-plus. Co-op Atlantic, also in Sydney, recently announced a meat processing and distribution centre in that area. This will create 60 new jobs.
Mr. Chairman, I can tell you that this government is focused on job creation. The expanding economy is also more than just creating new employment opportunities. It's about focusing on our skills and strengths. In fact, the export market is a big part of our future. Exports lead to growth in jobs, growth in revenues for the province and increase our tax base. Increasing the export base is why the province works with local companies to develop trade opportunities. In 2001-02, 210 Nova Scotian companies participated in 25 trade events to promote the products and services that Nova Scotia has to offer the world. To date, those companies estimate that their sales will be in the neighbourhood of $33.5 million.
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We attract new business in this province, but we also work to retain existing businesses and to help those businesses expand. In order to do that, we must continue to grow our market share. Last year, we set out to do just exactly that and it worked. This year, the business of attracting new business and expanding existing firms is being led by NSBI. I'm sure, based on my relationship with NSBI over the last year, they will continue to be successful.
Mr. Chairman, while NSBI is now the government's delivery arm on investment matters, the Office of Economic Development continues to be responsible for working to generate the kind of business climate that companies recognize as being supportive for growing their opportunities. During a consultation that led to the creation of NSBI, we heard very clearly small businesses in Nova Scotia sometimes find it difficult to run their business and as a result of those comments, we've made a commitment to work with them to make Nova Scotia a more attractive place to do business. Our aim, as a result, is not only to keep pace with other jurisdictions, but in fact to lead the way because, make no mistake about it, as good as we are, it's a very competitive world and if we take our eye off the opportunity for even a moment, we will lose it.
It is important that all Nova Scotians understand clearly how Nova Scotia's business climate impacts on the local business community. It requires that these firms and these Nova Scotia entrepreneurs keep NSBI and the Office of Economic Development informed as to their issues, concerns and progress. In fact, a great deal of time last year was spent by staff members doing exactly that. We've worked with businesses and with other governments to identify key business climate issues because you need to benchmark where you are in order to make improvements and these meetings gave us a true in-depth understanding of what the issues are that impact Nova Scotia's business climate and we are committed to working with them to make a difference. Nurturing a healthy business climate means ensuring that Nova Scotians have the skills necessary to be employed in this province.
The transfer of the Labour Market Development Secretariat to the Department of Education was completed this year. This relationship established between the two organizations is critical to the go-forward of economic growth in this province. Our Industrial Benefits office has invested a great deal of effort in strengthening Nova Scotia's network of influential partners; effort, I will add, that has met with a good deal of success. There are Nova Scotians who are successful in every corner of the world. Part of our strategy is to ensure that those expatriate Nova Scotians are aware of their roots and, believe me, they are.
Not that long ago, I was talking about the Team Atlanta mission and whether or not that mission was successful. It was successful in that we strengthened those ties with our trading partners and we can then look to a future opportunity. So part of going forward is recognizing that we already have a tremendous network of people who are more than willing to assist Nova Scotia in the global market. But it doesn't stop with expatriate entrepreneurs who will lobby on behalf of Nova Scotia. It means that we have to be more effective in our
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relationships with Ottawa and more effective in our relationships with our sister provinces. Again, it's very important that we focus on Atlantic Canadian opportunities. I can tell you that industry is focused on us.
Just recently, Lockheed Martin signed an MOU with the Membertou Band that will create a critical mass to capture opportunity in the aerospace sector. I'm very confident in my discussions with Lockheed Martin that they would like to be for Nova Scotia and for Atlantic Canada what Boeing has been to the West and what Bombardier has been to Quebec. It's up to us to work with partners who want to work with us to capture opportunities. These are tremendous opportunities, Mr. Chairman.
There are accomplishments, but it doesn't stop there. The regional development authorities and the support program that we have in place with our small rural communities has worked well. The recent announcement of a five-year funding commitment is important. It gives them some sense of certainty and the ability to plan for the future. We will be making our announcement in the coming weeks.
The RDAs are a big part of community-based economic development. Mr. Chairman, I can also tell you that in co-operation with the Co-operative Council, we brought in amendments to the co-operatives Act, which were long overdue and which were very, very well-received by the co-operatives in this province. That's a step in the direction of making this business climate the best in Atlantic Canada; in fact, the best in Canada. In order to be successful, you have to be the best in class.
Targeted planning and implementation efforts are underway in several communities that have had significant challenges placed before them because we recognize the work is never done in communities like Canso, in eastern Guysborough County, in communities along the Eastern Shore - a place I know you hold near and dear, Mr. Chairman - on Cape Breton Island, on the Fundy shore, in the Annapolis Valley. There are small communities that are facing tremendous challenges and the only way to address those challenges is to work co-operatively at the community level, at the municipal level, at the provincial level, at the federal level and with the companies that ultimately will create the employment opportunities.
A number of times in this House, Mr. Chairman, I've been called in Question Period to answer to concerns expressed by members opposite about payroll rebates or loan programs or assistance to companies in small communities. I'm pleased that just last week we were able to talk about the fact that Seagull Pewter will continue to be a big part of economic growth in Pugwash. That was no easy accomplishment because that business, that industry and those communities were facing tremendous challenge. So it's about working together.
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As a direct result of the efforts that we have in working co-operatively within government, within jurisdictions, I can tell you that there is the opportunity for a marble quarry in Inverness County. We hope that that will be open by June 2003. There's an opportunity for a barite development in Richmond County. In fact barite is critical to the oil industry because it's used in the drilling muds. That's a tremendous opportunity and we have the natural resources, we have the opportunity; it's a matter of moving forward. It's not limited just to that, Mr. Chairman. We have pottery for clay production. We have limestone. We have graphite and we have marble deposits. So it's a matter of working together to create a business model that works.
[4:15 p.m.]
It doesn't stop there. It reaches into the communities, working with community groups that are focused on grassroots economic development. Whether it's Nova Scotia's Black, Acadian or Aboriginal communities, we work closely with them. Efforts are underway to sign formal MOUs with various community economic development groups that will leverage federal-provincial dollars and municipal interest to make these things happen. I can tell you that we will, in the very near future, be renewing our commitment to the Black Business Initiative because that's a tremendous vehicle for promoting economic development in a community that faces significant challenges. In fact, they were part of the Team Atlanta mission and I'm pleased to say that they were very, very pleased with the results.
Mr. Chairman, over the years, the office has also increased its effort to profile trade policy and in the Fall we took a lead role in organizing and participation and delivering a presentation in Ottawa on the proposed elimination of the 25 per cent tariffs on ships and floating structures that stemmed out of a European free trade agreement. That was a clear example of all parties - business, government, communities and labour - all working together with a common goal. When you harness those kinds of powers, it's a tremendous voice when you bring it to bear on our federal partners.
We worked closely with industry and other governments to bring our concerns forward at the very highest of levels and I'm pleased to say they heard us. The fight is not over, it's not complete, but clearly the federal government recognized the issues and concerns. Not that long ago, only a couple of weeks ago, across the harbour at Secunda Marine, we had a follow-up meeting where, clearly, representatives from the federal government were informed as to the common voice and common concern. So we're working closely to make sure this happens.
Mr. Chairman, I can also tell you the Office of Economic Development has been very focused on the softwood lumber issue. I was pleased the other day to see the Maritime Lumber Bureau in a letter recognize the contributions of staff of OED on those negotiations. Again, a situation that has not been resolved entirely, but certainly from an Atlantic Canadian, from a Nova Scotian perspective, our people were on the ground when they
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needed to be there and they carried the message long and loud and clear. The support that we gave as a government to industry was clearly recognized. So we are making a difference.
Mr. Chairman, as I said when I began my remarks, there have been a number of changes over the last year and I want to take a few moments to talk about the Technology and Science Secretariat and the role that they have played in the past and will play in the future in terms of the Office of Economic Development. Over the past year, TSS, as it was referred to, has worked to move government to a common goal in terms of how it uses technology, technology right straight across government departments, but more importantly beyond government departments into the larger community, because it's all about using technology to improve the provision of service and to make sure that we capture opportunity. The private sector has clearly said that the opportunities presented around technology must be grasped by this government, that Nova Scotia must be a leader in ensuring that government is driven by technology; not just from the perspective of economic development, but by the way in which we deliver government.
Mr. Chairman, Nova Scotia is at the front of the pack, but I think it's important that we move to a leadership role there. One of the primary reasons behind the decision to merge TSS with the Department of Economic Development was that these two responsibilities have a natural synergy. The IT sector, in spite of the difficulties it faced some number of months ago, will remain and continue to grow as a large part of the economic opportunities, promoting economic and social growth across this province.
Technology empowers small communities. Let me elaborate on that just a bit. Broadband technology is linking our educational system and that's a tremendous place to start. Our youth need to be technologically literate. They will very quickly gravitate to the use of technology and technology is tremendously empowering. There is that old cliché that knowledge is power, and certainly access to technology and the knowledge of how to use it and apply it effectively is tremendously empowering.
We have a knowledge economy right here in Nova Scotia. One of the things that many of the companies, who come here looking at Nova Scotia as a place to do business, very quickly gravitate to is the fact that we have the highest number of post-secondary educated people in the workforce per capita in Canada, but there are issues related to that because we also have significant challenges in rural Nova Scotia with minimal levels of literacy, but I believe TSS, working with and through the Office of Economic Development, has the power to change that.
Mr. Chairman, the federal government has also recognized that technology, research and development are tremendously important. The Information Economy Initiative that partnered private sector with government has put a tremendous high-speed network in place. The partnership also upgraded Internet connections in more than 600 EDnet sites. When we were in Atlanta, I can tell you that that state was very impressed with the fact that Nova
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Scotia, with a population of under 1 million people, could boast technology that links every community. That's a tremendous accomplishment. It's a recognition that the people responsible for making the decisions - and certainly to give credit to a previous government, they were instrumental in moving this forward, too, they saw that technology can empower Nova Scotians.
EDnet is a computer network linking public schools, libraries, community college campuses in Nova Scotia. It works well. Broadband technology means we can do it faster and more efficient. It's about moving ahead, Mr. Chairman. All the students can use higher band with the pickup journals anywhere in the world. You can live in Lockeport, Middle Musquodoboit or Cape Breton and do it right from this very room if you have the technology, because technology does break down barriers. The new connections mean that students in small schools, no matter how small, can converse with anyone anywhere in the world. It is a way of levelling the playing field.
The Information Economy Initiative put about $90 million in federal-provincial and leveraged private-sector monies into Nova Scotia. The IEI boosted Internet speeds in schools and trained hundreds of teachers in technology and put thousands of computers in schools. We backed centres in IT excellence at the universities - Dal, Acadia and UCCB. We've helped our communities put together a network through the CAP sites so that there are over 50 community access and CAP sites that means that anyone any age can be linked to anyone anywhere in the world. The government's efforts to build IT and other innovation technologies will help create a stronger economy and a greater stability in our social fabric. We intend to use the very best in technology to create the very best in innovation infrastructure and the very best economic climate in the world.
A major initiative that's underway in this province will again place Nova Scotia ahead of our competition in terms of the application of technology. The government's SAP financial program is a massive undertaking. This undertaking will soon see government, municipalities, hospitals and schools all talking the same language, through a standardized information system. They will all be working co-operatively together to make sound decisions to use money more effectively and more wisely, and to make services more readily available to citizens through the Internet. Integrated information systems will make it possible for patients to move more quickly and smoothly through the health care system, whether it's from the ambulance to the hospital, or transferring data related to their particular concerns from one hospital to another or from one doctor to another. In fact, the technology is being used to ensure that the trunk mobile rail system is available for police, fire department and other emergency services.
Mr. Speaker, Nova Scotians have had a long and proud history of innovating. We do it through perseverance, creativity and the recognition of opportunity. I, for one, believe that the information age has created the same kind of synergy for Nova Scotia and Nova Scotians that the golden age of sail and trade created some 150 years ago. There's no reason why
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Nova Scotia cannot have the same kind of pride in their efforts that we had when our sailing ships were known in every port of call on the globe.
Before I leave my comments on economic development, I would like to talk about how our growth strategy is clearly linked to the energy strategy because, Mr. Chairman, you have to have a common thread and a common goal and a common vision. We started with the Toward Prosperity document early on in our mandate which clearly laid the groundwork for where we want to go over the next, not just the current mandate, but on into the future, well beyond this government, the next government and into the future. We see that in order to build a future you have to start with a firm foundation. The growth strategy, in fact, identified energy as an area of tremendous potential opportunity, and our energy strategy is focused on exactly that; in fact, it's called Seizing the Opportunity.
In fact, the budget estimates that we will be talking about, or are talking about now and will be answering questions on very shortly, is a clear indication that this government is focused on the energy sector as being tremendously important. In a time of very little discretionary financial decision-making capability we have clearly added additional monies to the creation of the energy department and these initiatives.
Seizing the Opportunity, Nova Scotia's energy strategy, is again the result of a tremendous amount of consultation. We received over 100 submissions, Mr. Chairman, including submissions from members in this very House. Our team met with literally hundreds of Nova Scotians over hundreds of hours to make sure that the stakeholders could see themselves in this document. We held seven workshops, workshops in Yarmouth, Middleton, Bridgewater, Halifax, Truro, Port Hawkesbury and Sydney. We had an energy forum at Saint Mary's and received the advice of a broad cross-section of people from Nova Scotia and elsewhere on just how to capture these opportunities.
I can tell you, Mr. Chairman, that that meeting at Saint Mary's was a cause for a great deal of pride in Nova Scotians and for Nova Scotians because leaders from around the world were assembled there to talk about the energy opportunities, and they were very impressed with Nova Scotia and they were very impressed with the vision and the work that had gone into creating the meeting and where we were trying to take the energy strategy.
The final document that came forward was a result of a great deal of hard work on the part of staff at the Petroleum Directorate, Natural Resources, but also it required outside help. The areas that were covered and the issues that arose and had to be dealt with required a tremendous amount of research and discussion. In fact, the strategy evolved into an entire energy strategy. Initially, when we first started the discussions, we were focused predominantly on the oil and gas sector, but we recognized very early on that that wasn't sufficient, that in order to do justice we had to evolve it into a discussion of all aspects of energy; we talk about natural gas; we talk about electricity; we talk about renewables; we talk
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about environmental concerns and the impact of the energy sector on the economy and, more broadly, on society itself.
Getting the policy focus right was a challenge, Mr. Chairman. We had a great deal of expertise inside of government, but I can tell the people in this room and the people in the department across the way and the people at OED have a number of responsibilities and, on more than one occasion, I have heard members opposite talk about the fact that in order to capture all of the opportunities you have to put in place the resources to do it justice. They said how can people in Nova Scotia hope to effectively discuss oil and gas or energy-related issues with companies who have global scope and, in fact, budgets that are much larger than the provincial budget of this province. So we recognized that in order to do this thing properly we would have to go outside of government for assistance.
This was particularly true in the area of electricity. We were in the midst of some significant challenges in the electrical industry in the United States - most of you can remember what happened in California and in many parts of the United States - and we recognized that was an issue that had to be addressed and understood. In order to move forward with a comprehensive energy strategy we had to understand what had caused the problems in California and what problems potential regulatory changes could have and how we might, as a province, avoid those problems.
[4:30 p.m.]
I'm happy to say that we are proceeding cautiously on this front. We're able to do that because of the work that was put into developing our energy strategy. I'm proud to say that the energy strategy has been recognized as world-class. Our Premier had a chance in Washington to have a meeting one on one with the vice president to discuss Nova Scotia's energy strategy. He was the only Premier to be afforded that opportunity.
I can tell you that British Columbia is facing challenges similar to Nova Scotia's, and they have asked about the energy strategy. I can tell you that a premiere organization like the American energy council have be