HANSARD

Printed and Published by Nova Scotia Hansard Reporting Services

Ms. Maureen MacDonald (Chair)

Mr.Chuck Porter (Vice-Chairman)

Mr. Patrick Dunn

Mr. Keith Bain

Mr. Graham Steele

Mr. David Wilson (Sackville-Cobequid)

Mr. Keith Colwell

Mr. Leo Glavine

Ms. Diana Whalen

[Mr. Leonard Preyra replaced Mr. David Wilson, Sackville-Cobequid)

WITNESSES

Mr. Vahid Kermanshah

Mr. Afshar Ghasemi

Mr. Alireza Aghajan

Mr. Farzin Farrashzadeh

Mr. Ian Russell

Ms. Annemarie Schep-Stiger

Mr. Leo Karunanayake and Maureen Perera

Mr. Jaime Guerrero

Mr. John Huang

Mr. Elvin Reyes

Ms. Astareh Kiani

Mr. Ken Friedman, NAABEX

Dr. Michael Chang

In Attendance:

Ms. Charlene Rice

Legislative Committee Clerk

Mr. Jacques Lapointe

Auditor General

Ms. Evangeline Colman-Sadd

Assistant Auditor General

Mr. Gordon Hebb

Chief Legislative Counsel

HALIFAX, WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 13, 2008

STANDING COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC ACCOUNTS

9:00 A.M.

CHAIR

Ms. Maureen MacDonald

VICE-CHAIRMAN

Mr. Chuck Porter

MADAM CHAIR: Good morning and welcome everyone here today. Today, the Public Accounts Committee is conducting a public forum with respect to the Provincial Nominee Program. We have a number of witnesses who have joined us here this morning. You have a list of people who will be presenting.

I want to thank Legislative TV - they are providing a feed into the other room where quite a few people are watching the proceedings and hearing the proceedings.

The process we're going to use here today is the clerk has indicated to our witnesses that they have about 10 minutes to present. There will be modest flexibility around that but not a lot of flexibility so that we do, in fact, get to hear from everyone in the time that we have allotted. There will be an opportunity for members to ask questions to witnesses, if they wish. This is the way we will proceed.

It will not be the normal allocation of time per caucus for questions, it will be the Law Amendments kind of procedure where you indicate to the Chair that you have a question. I will keep a list and we will proceed in that fashion, just for the efficiency of the committee. So we will begin by having an introduction of members of the committee, staff from the Auditor General's Office, Legislative Counsel and clerk to the committee - our usual fashion.

[The committee members and staff introduced themselves.]

MADAM CHAIR: Thank you. Our first presenters here today, I believe, are Vahid Kermanshah and Afshar Ghasemi. Good morning, please introduce yourself and begin.

MR. VAHID KERMANSHAH: My name is Vahid Kermanshah. I would like to express my gratitude to every member of the Public Accounts Committee for having the opportunity to be present here to speak about my mentorship experience.

I am going to begin by briefly explaining my 10 years management experience in three different major industries. Between 2003-07, I worked as manager of a department store with 600 employees, 450,000 square feet of selling space, and an annual turnover of nearly $35 million. From 2002-03, I was commercial and sales manager of a chemical production company which produces pesticides, insecticides and liquid manures, with 25 employees under my management and an annual turnover of nearly $8 million. Between 1997-2002, I was export and domestic sales manager of a pharmaceutical hygienic and cosmetic company producing 75 different kinds of pharmaceutical hygienic and cosmetic items with an annual turnover of nearly $14 million and 38 employees under my management. In 1986, I was a graduate of Tehran University and received a Bachelor Degree in Agricultural Engineering. Between 2001-03, I took intensive courses in export, finance sales, marketing, public relations, commerce and all the modules of Microsoft Office 2003.

By my agent and Cornwallis in January 2006, I was promised that after a six-month mentorship program, I would be offered a job matching my background with an annual salary of $50,000 to $60,000 and would also be assisted to settle down in Halifax. On April 27, 2007, when we landed in Halifax, we were informed that Cornwallis was no longer in charge of the Nominee Program and we found ourselves without any assistance.

On July 20^th, when I signed my mentorship contract with a fishing company situated in Shag Harbour, in good faith and trust in the Immigration Office, I was assured that I would be mentored on how to plan, organize, direct, control and evaluate the activities of the company and the departments of wholesale, e-business sales marketing, advertising and public relations. When I went to Shag Harbour, they had no such departments and were doing business in a traditional way with no valuable experience and knowledge in the majors I was supposed to be mentored in.

The company did not provide me with the least facilities as a sales advertising and marketing manager needed to perform his daily duties, even a desk or a computer, and I realized that the company was not a good match and could not mentor and give me the experience I needed for my future occupation, according to my credentials.

I informed the Immigration Officer, but when I was told that I could not cancel my contract and there were no other options but to continue, I decided to encourage the company

to use my experience by initiating them into preparing a sales and marketing plan. Therefore I collected some data about the fishing industry in Nova Scotia and asked them to send me some information to assign the company position in the Nova Scotia fishing market, but they expressed they did not have high speed Internet and told me not to come to work and mailed my salary in post-dated cheques, half of which bounced.

Then my mentor showed me the contract signed between him and the broker in which he agreed to pay $15,000. I really became disappointed and realized that I had been unexpectedly plunged into a scam because my money had been treated as a pie from which everybody has taken a piece through my immigration to Canada and it is under my dignity.

When the residency refund option was announced, I was shocked because I asked the immigration officers twice whether they could be able to refund the mentorship fees of those nominees who could stop with the business plan, and every time they responded they did not have the authority to decide. I finally contacted the Immigration Officer and informed them that my mentor is unable to give me the promised valuable experience and they cancelled my contract and forfeited my mentorship and refund entitlement, which was an unjust punishment and illegal.

[9:15 a.m.]

We were very prosperous in our homeland. We did not come to Canada for money, but for the ethical aspects of life. We came to Canada to preserve our integrity and live more authentically to drop all falsities and be exposed because we want to spiritually grow and become mature before death. We came to Canada to trust and to be trusted because the capacity to trust is the greatest treasure of life and without it neither love nor God is possible. We came to Canada to co-operate rather than compete because co-operation teaches us to be creative, loving and blissful without any comparison with the others. We came to Canada because we believe Canada's personal and professional integrity alongside qualifications are considered decisive factors for prosperity and success. We came to Canada because we believe Canada is one of the most developed pluralist democratic countries in the world, therefore we expect to be treated according to democratic values.

We have honoured all other commitments such as contributing $130,500 of our life savings in bringing our family to the province. The Nova Scotians are very kind, sincere and have cordially welcomed us, but we never imagined that we would be abused and oppressed and not be treated transparently and sincerely throughout the process of immigration to Canada.

All the nominees have immigrated to Nova Scotia through the same category, hence should be benefitted and treated equally and fairly. The residency refund option is a good program to help the nominees out of the flawed mentorship program, but should cover all

nominees, particularly those who have been loyal to the government by settling down in this province.

I have been living in a very stressful situation for the last 10 months, not merely for the gloomy picture of my occupation in here but for my integrity which has been insulted, and I hope the decision makers will show their humility and sense of justice by reviewing my case as soon as possible.

I would like to thank those local authorities, particularly Ms. Elizabeth Mills who have dedicated so much to the immigrants' issues. I would also like to thank MISA employees for the useful services they offer the immigrants and believe that this association could have been considered as a good choice for handling the Nominee Program, rather than Cornwallis. Thank you very much.

MADAM CHAIR: Thank you. I think we'll hear from the next presenter and then we'll open for questions.

MR. AFSHAR GHASEMI: Actually, my friend will present for myself as well.

MR. KERMANSHAH: I have been asked to read it on his behalf:

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. My name is Afshar Ghasemi and I was owner and manager of my own company, Afshar Fabrics, in my country and I have been living in this beautiful province for the last two years.

First, I would like to thank the committee for this opportunity. Secondly, I would like to thank Ms. Elizabeth Mills for bringing up the residency refund option, but I have to acknowledge that I was really surprised when I heard that we were excluded from this option.

Let me start my story in this way. When my family and I decided to immigrate we chose Canada because of its unique multiculturalism, justice and freedom which has made Canada well known around the world. Since we landed, we have been treated as a member of a huge family amongst Nova Scotians. I'll never forget the way Canadians showed us their warm affection with intimate smiles and eye contact.

After landing the second day, I went to Cornwallis Corporation for choosing a job, but they did not have any job offer regarding my field which is fabrics and they told me just that, you have a one-year deadline to sign the contract, otherwise you will not be eligible for the six-month job offer. The day after, I met some of my co-nominees who had already signed a contract. They told me the whole story about the Mentorship Program, that they did not work and their mentor told them that they did not need to show up at work, actually they wanted only your money. As a matter of fact there were a lot of unpleasant stories about this program and many knew it was not a successful mentorship from the beginning and just a

few nominees, whom I have never met, may have been given matched mentors and this is not a good criterion for estimating the success of the program.

I went to Cornwallis Corporation three times and I told them I really wanted to start a business here and I had heard what happened to other nominees who had started mentorship, is there any possibility to have some of my money as a refund to start my own business but I received the same response, one-year deadline, so I signed the contract under duress.

After signing the contract, I had the same experience as the other nominees, working in a construction company which did not have a position for the job title, marketing manager, mentioned in the contract. This company did not even have an employee and I did not have to show up at the workplace. After all that, whenever I applied for a job to use my mentorship as Canadian experience, and my mentor as a reference, many of the employers sarcastically told me, we heard about this so-called mentorship, we don't have any job for you at this level of management. Eventually for two months I worked as an employee in the Everything for a Dollar store, stocking the shelves, sweep, mop the floor and carry the garbage out of the store which shows how effective the so-called Mentorship Program has been in my career.

Let us be neutral and just. Who can call this Mentorship Program a success from the beginning? How many received the valuable work experience they deserved which cost them a huge amount of money? With this money, I would be able to get my PhD in a major from an accredited university.

As feeling obliged to be loyal to the friendly people and contribute to the economy of this province, I stayed and started my own business which is a pizza shop and right now I am suffering because I am not interested in this business. If the residency refund option had been introduced to us from the beginning, I could have gone into a business according to my credentials.

We would like to live in a society with the others with integrity but the residency refund option has divided the nominees. Some of our friends believe that if we had not been involuntarily treated as guinea pigs in the Mentorship Program, they would never have benefitted from the residency refund option and they have also banned us because they think their refund entitlement would be in jeopardy if they contact us and this kind of treatment is really painful.

I have to acknowledge that I really believe in Canadian justice, thus I hope the committee will make a fair decision regarding including us in the residency refund option. Please do not disappoint us of restoring our rights. Ladies and gentlemen, once again I would like to thank the committee members for listening to my presentation.

MADAM CHAIR: Thank you. The floor is now open for questions. Mr. Preyra and Mr. Steele.

MR. LEONARD PREYRA: Thank you, Mr. Kermanshah and Mr. Ghasemi, for coming in today. I have a number of very short questions I hope, for Mr. Kermanshah mostly. Mr. Kermanshah, when you first applied for the Nominee Program, were you aware that $20,000 of your money was going to go to the consultant who drew your case to the attention of the Office of Immigration?

MR. KERMANSHAH: As I have mentioned, nothing was transferred from the beginning. Nothing was explained to us, I even paid $6,200 to my agent in Iran.

MR. PREYRA: So you paid $6,200, in addition to the $20,000 . . .

MR. KERMANSHAH: In addition to the $20,000 that was allocated to the agents.

MR. PREYRA: Now when you came to Canada, were you made aware that there was a list of business mentors? How did you get in touch with Emery Fisheries?

MR. KERMANSHAH: I was introduced to Emery Fisheries - I was not informed that there was a list of mentors. I was introduced to Emery Fisheries company through a broker which was introduced to me by the owner of China Town Restaurant, with an Iranian.

MR. PREYRA: And that broker was paid $15,000, to your knowledge, by Emery Fisheries?

MR. KERMANSHAH: I wasn't informed until I saw the contract in my mentor's office. He was not supposed to charge me. He was supposed to start a business with me because he said that he was importing and exporting USB cables from China, and I told him that I can introduce some of my customers in Iran to import USB cables. So we started sort of a friendship, kind of relationship and he wasn't supposed to act as a broker. He also took me to some places to introduce some prominent people of this province.

MR. PREYRA: But you were not aware that there was a business transaction?

MR. KERMANSHAH: No, no, when I saw the contract, I was really shocked in his office.

MR. PREYRA: Now you were supposed to be in a middle management position at Emery Fisheries.

MR. KERMANSHAH: Yes.

MR. PREYRA: What did you find when you got there and how much were you eventually paid for that position?

MR. KERMANSHAH: My contract was $37,000 and when I went there, I found that they had a very small office with two rooms and both of them were occupied by himself and his son. They had not even made any preparations for helping me to settle in there, to give me a desk or anything. I found that when I went through their business I found that they were not knowledgeable enough to give me the information I needed for this middle management position. Then they did not, they haven't paid half of my salary.

MR. PREYRA: So you got, you were saying, about $8,400 of the total amount?

MR. KERMANSHAH: I have received $1,200. Actually the totals are half of that $19,000 - $6,000 was paid as tax and I have received net, somewhere about $12,000.

MR. PREYRA: You say that your contract was signed at the end of July, which is a few months before the refund program was announced in itself. Now when you went to the Office of Immigration, after several meetings with them you were sent a letter on January 11th, in response, which is what you alluded to. I would like to read that letter into the record, which Mr. Kermanshah sent to me.

MADAM CHAIR: No, just table it. We have a limited amount of time, so just table it.

MR. PREYRA: Essentially the letter accepts the idea that there was no bona fide mentorship arrangement with Emery Fisheries, that, in fact, you didn't get any of the middle management position that you were promised and the Office of Immigration stopped a payment to Emery Fisheries of about $50,000, but also informed you that you had lost your $50,000 and your entitlement to further participation, both in the Mentorship Program and in the refund program.

MR. KERMANSHAH: Yes, that's right.

MR. PREYRA: Thank you, Madam Chair.

MADAM CHAIR: Mr. Steele.

MR. STEELE: Mr. Preyra asked the questions that I was going to ask him.

MADAM CHAIR: Thank you. Ms. Whalen.

MS. DIANA WHALEN: Yes, I was very interested in the fact that you had signed in July because the changes to the program clearly were in the works and being considered

at that time. I wasn't aware that you were one of the individuals who have actually had their contract null and voided because of the inability of, I guess, the business company to actually meet the demands or the commitment that they made to you.

What I wanted to ask you was when you arrived, what was the date that you arrived in Canada?

MR. KERMANSHAH: April 27, 2007, I landed in Halifax.

MS. WHALEN: During that year, there was a change after Cornwallis was no longer in charge, where the one-year deadline for signing a contract came into play. Was that made very clear to you that you had only a limited amount of time in order to sign a contract, otherwise, you would forego all of the $100,000? You would lose it all.

MR. KERMANSHAH: That's right, yes, they told me that.

MS. WHALEN: So I guess what I want to know is how much pressure you felt to sign and actually . . .

MR. KERMANSHAH: Well I mean these things were not - we were not informed of these regulations while we were signing the contract in my own country.

Now why I selected Canada actually, apart from the good society, a developed society and a democratic society, they were giving me a guarantee of having an occupation in here - that really interested me. I was not even really interested in getting that minimum of $20,000 which they were supposed to allocate for the salary, because I was calculating on myself that even in two or three months employment, I would be able to get this money back and also ensure my life in here. You know, according to the equivalency of the foreign exchangers, I have been spending and bringing money in here and changing into dollars from my own country which has been really unaffordable. I can't afford any more.

MS. WHALEN: Perhaps I'll just ask a question on that. I've heard from a number of the nominees who have come here, that it has been difficult to take your money from your home country to this country. Is that what you're alluding today, the difficulty of converting the currency?

MR. KERMANSHAH: Yes, that's right, and that is also difficult. Do you know why? Because all the banks are banned internationally; we cannot send the money through the banks to Canada.

MS. WHALEN: So it was really a lot of difficulty to get the $130,000 . . .

MR. KERMANSHAH: Lots of difficulty then to get the money in here.

[9:30 a.m.]

MS. WHALEN: Yes, I think that's important for all of the nominees that we'll see, that other people as well have come here, so it doesn't mean you have a . . .

MR. KERMANSHAH: All the Iranian banks are banned by the United Nations.

MS. WHALEN: I have just one other question. The original description of the program from Cornwallis indicated that you would receive a list of companies and that you would be able to select from that list. When you arrived here, I understand that Cornwallis was no longer in charge but perhaps for both of you to answer this question maybe - were you shown any list? Was there any choice whatsoever, or were you thrown basically to your own resources?

MR. KERMANSHAH: We not only received actually any lists of mentors, but also we were not even informed by our agent or the Immigration Office that Cornwallis was not even in charge of the Nominee Program any more.

MS. WHALEN: They didn't inform you until you arrived.

MR. KERMANSHAH: They didn't send us an e-mail. If I had known, I would have stepped more cautiously into the program.

MS. WHALEN: Okay, I think that's very significant as well. I wonder, with Mr. Ghasemi, if you could tell us as well, did you pay a broker separately, in Iran, before you came here? Just as we've heard, you paid $6,500 or $6,200 to a broker?

MR. AFSHAR GHASEMI: Actually I paid just my lawyer and he explained to me how this - I have this six-month job offer here in relation to my field. After I landed over here, I was really surprised. I didn't know that the transparency of the program and once I was over here I just went to Cornwallis and I hear the news the day after from my co-nominees that it is not a good program and all of us are suffering. I didn't pay to the brokerage, I paid the amount to my lawyer, it was almost $10,000 U.S. dollars at that time.

MS. WHALEN: Would you think that he was acting as a broker, essentially, because you didn't need a lawyer to sign with the Nominee Program.

MR. GHASEMI: Yes, he did. He was as a brokerage because I didn't know how to apply for immigration.

MS. WHALEN: So you paid quite a hefty fee as well.

MR. GHASEMI: Yes, that's right.

MS. WHALEN: And I think it's important to know that the original program said that the nominees should not have to pay any separate brokerage, that it was covered by Cornwallis' fee to a broker in the home country.

MR. GHASEMI: Oh, I didn't know that, it is the first time.

MR. KERMANSHAH: We were not informed of these facts at all.

MR. GHASEMI: I paid $10,000 U.S. dollars at that time, yes. I didn't know that, this is my first time I explained.

MS. WHALEN: Thank you for your answers.

MADAM CHAIR: Mr. Porter.

MR. CHUCK PORTER: I am really pleased that you came to the committee today. We're very interested in hearing your story. There are a number of questions I have and I know time's short, so I'll get the first few out.

You talked about the program - it's really confusing, it seems when I listen to your story. There's a piece that's almost missing and it's the beginning. Where did you go to find out there was a mentorship and an opportunity to come to Nova Scotia? How did you decide and who did you contact?

Obviously you are a knowledgeable, experienced businessman and you made a decision, I want to go to Canada, it's a great country, we want to live there. How did that whole first beginning transpire?

MR. KERMANSHAH: These brokers have offices in our own countries. They put advertisements in the newspapers and also on the Internet - if you go to the Internet Web site you can see lots of the companies. They even have offices not only in the Province of Ontario, but also in their original country.

MR. PORTER: So you went to see the broker, the broker outlined for you a program that existed in Canada and specifically, in Nova Scotia?

MR. KERMANSHAH: Yes.

MR. PORTER: All of those details were provided to you at that time?

MR. KERMANSHAH: No, nothing was provided. Coming to Canada is really difficult, even to go through the federal procedures that would take a long time. I thought what would be the fastest, the most extreme and he said, this is the fastest way, but you have

to pay this amount of money and you would be provided with job experience and occupations.

MR. PORTER: So there was some detail obviously outlined in that meeting, there was a contract that was signed. Did you read that contract and understand what it was you were getting into?

MR. KERMANSHAH: I read all the contracts, but nothing was explained over the Nominee Program and we were not even given any catalogues. They said that we would be briefed at the time of our interview here. They acknowledged that they didn't even have any information on the program, just that this was the fastest way of getting into Canada.

MR. PORTER: You obviously were wanting to get here more quickly, rather than taking - I don't know how much time it takes to get through, I know it's probably a few years?

MR. KERMANSHAH: Yes, that's . . .

MR. PORTER: But you wanted to get here for whatever reason, set up a business, go to work, contribute and so on.

MR. KERMANSHAH: That's just one of the privileges, but everything has a price.

MR. PORTER: Somewhere there though there must have been figures outlined, it's going to cost you this much money. Did you deal with an agent then outside of the broker? When you arrived here or prior to getting here, the details, I just want to clarify that step because I'm actually confused on this step right now from what you've read? You met with the broker who set you up with an agent, is that correct?

MR. KERMANSHAH: No, no. That agent was the broker.

MR. PORTER: The agent was the broker, same guy.

MR. KERMANSHAH: Yes, the agent was the broker.

MR. PORTER: So you paid him a fee.

MR. KERMANSHAH: Yes.

MR. PORTER: How much did you pay him?

MR. KERMANSHAH: It was $6,200.

MR. PORTER: And sir, how much did you pay him?

MR. GHASEMI: I paid $10,000.

MR. PORTER: Was there any question as to why it was different or is that just open-ended in your country?

MR. GHASEMI: Because it is different with my company, I always go over to buy the goods from those companies and I bring them to my country and I actually just sell across the country. I saw the advertisement in the newspaper over there.

MR. PORTER: So when you set up with the agent/broker, you went and again, just for clarity, you knew what you were coming to do or you understood that you were coming to do whatever business you were in, whatever your profession was, you understood that to be the case, that you were coming to Canada, to Nova Scotia specifically, to work in the same kind of job?

MR. KERMANSHAH: I was promised that I would find a job in a department store at the management level.

MR. PORTER: Who was your mentor?

MR. KERMANSHAH: Emery Smith Fisheries.

MR. PORTER: And they are located?

MR. KERMANSHAH: In Shag Harbour.

MR. PORTER: In Shag Harbour. Did you go to work there?

MR. KERMANSHAH: Yes.

MR. PORTER: How long did you work there?

MR. KERMANSHAH: I went there twice.

MR. PORTER: As in two days in the beginning?

MR. KERMANSHAH: No, I went there exactly four days after signing the contract. I arranged everything with him and I told him that I would be there on a particular date, at a particular time, please make everything ready and introduce me to the people that I'm going to work with.

MR. PORTER: And did this company outline . . .

MR. KERMANSHAH: When I arrived there I was really shocked, shocked in a way that how could they coordinate the facilities of that company with my credentials? I was asking myself, has there been any monitoring or a system of evaluation that this company could give me the experience I needed according to my credentials? I realized and told myself, maybe my file has not been studied by the authorities well enough. The most important thing of any company is the intellectual and intelligence aspect of each business company.

MR. PORTER: Do I still have a little bit of time? Just a very quick question - in your opening statement, did you say you contacted the Office of Immigration or you did not with regard to your issues?

MR. KERMANSHAH: Yes, I did. After that I contacted the Immigration officer who was in charge of signing the contract, who was present at the signing of the contract. I told him and he said, sometimes you lose, sometimes you win; this time you have lost. You will have to stick with your contract and continue.

MR. PORTER: Verbal conversation. Was there any correspondence that was transferred?

MR. KERMANSHAH: That's what I got for a call from the Emery Smith Fisheries office.

MR. PORTER: But no written correspondence at the time?

MR. KERMANSHAH: I have sent a registered letter to the Immigration Office and it took one month to receive. I followed up through Canada Post and they could not trace the letter and confirm the receipt of the letter. I couldn't even get the confirmation that there was a letter on the line. Canada Post decided to send the charges of the post to me and they said sorry, nobody signed the receipt of that paper. After one month, I received my response in a return form.

MR. PORTER: You said you went to work two different times.

MR. KERMANSHAH: I told them that this company cannot provide me the experience that I needed and the job that I needed, according to code 611NOC and I explained everything to them and after one month they sent me a letter that your complaint is because the residency refund option has surfaced, this was the reason.

MR. PORTER: How many hours did you work total at that place?

MR. KERMANSHAH: Actually I was present there nearly eight hours all together on two different days, but I worked for the company nearly four days at home going through different sites to collect information about Nova Scotia because they said they did not have highspeed Internet.

MR. PORTER: And you were paid for that time?

MR. KERMANSHAH: According to my contract, they were supposed to pay me a salary, but there is also another point that I want to mention here. The title of the contract is the employment contract which is contradictory to the Mentorship Program. With an employment contract, you receive a salary. Salary means that money is paid from the employer's pocket, not from your pocket. That means I had to work for them, but the title of the contract should have been mentorship contract. That means I paid money to receive the services that I had paid. I called this one, low against low.

MADAM CHAIR: We're going to have to really move on. Mr. Glavine has a 30 second question.

MR. LEO GLAVINE: Afshar, I was wondering if you did complete your mentorship? You obviously described it as a horrific experience compared to the credentials that you brought to the country and that you could offer Nova Scotia. What happened in the end in terms of your time there with the company?

MR. GHASEMI: After 10 days of just showing some houses he built, then after 10 days, he mentioned that if you don't want to you don't need to come. I said there is nothing to learn over here. He said, it's a good experience to see how houses are made here, but then after 10 days he said, you do not need to show up.

MR. GLAVINE: So that was suggested to you?

MR. GHASEMI: Yes. Then after that I thought I cannot start this business, so I asked him if there was any possibility to just show me because I was a marketing manager, I have this title in your company, so is there any possibility to show me the file for one house to see how much do you make, the expenses of this house and how much profit do you make? But he didn't show me anything he just said, I don't have any files here, I can't show you anything. It was a really bad experience for me. After 10 days, I just went to my home and searched around and after the six months the real Canadian experience I had, I have to mention, was working in the Dollar Store.

After wasting my money in this program, I didn't have enough money to go through my field that was importing and exporting fabric - I worked all the time over there. They said the only job we have, because we heard about the so-called Nominee Program, the only jobs

we have are like the others - mopping, putting stuff on the shelves, sweeping and I even carried the garbage. It's not fair, as you know.

MADAM CHAIR: Thank you. Before you leave us, there has been an offer from the Department of Immigration for the committee to have access to the files of people who are presenting here today, but we would like to have your consent before those files would be released to us. We have a form that outlines that you would give us that consent and you could see one of our staff on your way out.

Thank you very much for coming today, thank you.

Our next presenter is Alireza Aghajan. Good morning, please begin.

MR. ALIREZA AGHAJAN: Hello, ladies and gentlemen. My name is Alireza Aghajan, I am a psychiatrist and my wife is a surgeon. We have two kids and moved here in September 2006. We are so happy to come into Halifax - there are many opportunities for living, working and growing up here. On the other hand, I am a nominee of NSNP - the Nova Scotia Nominee Program - that was excluded from the residency refund option. I finished my contract only three months before the refunding option was up.

[9:45 a.m.]

Two years ago, I was approved by NSNP and came here for living, working and post-graduate study. After landing, I had to settle down by renting an apartment, buying a car and some other equipment. I have had to take many exams to get a practising licence. I found a mentor matching my credentials in Dalhousie University by speaking to Dr. Ghatavi, who is a professor assistant of the medical university. He accepted to be my mentor and help me join them in research and clinical observation and also to teaching, but unfortunately the NSNP didn't approve him as my mentor and told me he didn't meet the criteria.

I was introduced by a broker to a company that dealt with housing renovation. This company was approved by the NSNP, therefore, despite the fact that I was told after one year my mentorship entitlement would be forfeited, I signed the contract with that company.

After hearing about the residency refund option, I realized that I had been excluded from that program. Not only have I not received any professional experience, but I have also lost my money which I could have invested in my studies as a medical specialist.

All the nominees belong to the same category of immigration, therefore they should be treated equally and fairly. In my opinion, it is unjust that only a specified group of nominees contribute economically to the province by spending $110,500 and refunded around $20,000, whereas the others spent only $30,500 by staying at home and refunding $100,000. I'm so frustrated here. Thank you so much.

MADAM CHAIR: Thank you. Mr. Steele.

MR. GRAHAM STEELE: Thank you for coming today. I have some questions to try to clarify what you've just told us. It is my understanding that you tried to arrange your own mentorship which would have been in your field of work, but that was not approved by the Office of Immigration, is that correct?

MR. AGHAJAN: Yes.

MR. STEELE: But you did have an approved mentorship with a home renovation company. Did you work for that company?

MR. AGHAJAN: Yes, for six months.

MR. STEELE: What did you do for them?

MR. AGHAJAN: Building representation but only imagination of this work - not really because I studied my textbooks at the office daily.

MR. STEELE: So you went to work for the company, but really you were studying your medical textbooks when you were there.

MR. AGHAJAN: Yes, physically only. I went there for my salary, not anything else.

MR. STEELE: Okay, and what are you doing now? What are you doing today?

MR. AGHAJAN: Now I passed the first part of the evaluative exam for MCC, and I am studying a lot for the qualifying exam so I can step off MCC and . . . .

MR. STEELE: Okay, so you are working to be a qualified psychiatrist in Canada? You are trying to become one?

MR. AGHAJAN: Yes.

MR. STEELE: You mentioned also that your wife was a surgeon in your home country. What is she doing now?

MR. AGHAJAN: Yes. She is such as me, yes.

MR. STEELE: She is . . . .

MR. AGHAJAN: Such as me and she passed the first part of the exam and she is studying at home.

MR. STEELE: And did she participate in the Mentorship Program?

MR. AGHAJAN: No, I was the main immigrant, applicant, yes.

MR. STEELE: Okay, thank you.

MADAM CHAIR: Thank you. Mr. Porter.

MR. PORTER: Thank you and thank you for coming as well today. Just a couple of quick questions. Given the economic impact - $130,000 is a lot of money. You are aware of that, obviously coming in, in this program. Why did you select the Nova Scotia Nominee Program as your entry into Canada, I guess as an option - we're glad to have you, don't get me wrong, we really are. As an option, though, you had options to go to other provinces. There is a reason you came to Nova Scotia, I guess is what I am getting at. What was appealing about the Nova Scotia Nominee Program to you?

MR. AGHAJAN: In my country I was a boss of a hospital, a manager of a hospital and I wanted to come here as soon as possible. This program was a good opportunity for coming here.

MR. PORTER: Very good, so you ended up having to have an agent. Obviously you wanted to do it yourself but you had an agent to assist you through the process?

MR. AGHAJAN: Yes.

MR. PORTER: Who was that agent?

MR. AGHAJAN: Who is my lawyer or agent?

MR. PORTER: The agent, was it a lawyer acting as your agent, or who was your agent assisting you with this whole process of getting into the Nominee Program and then into the Mentorship Program?

MR. AGHAJAN: I had a lawyer . . .

MR. PORTER: Okay, that's fine. Did you pay this person who helped you or assisted you as the agent, for finding you employment or setting up the Mentorship Program?

MR. AGHAJAN: No.

MR. PORTER: There were no fees.

MR. AGHAJAN: No.

MR. PORTER: Great. So right now you said you are studying to pass the Canadian - I guess it would be the Canadian level exams, to go into your profession.

MR. AGHAJAN: Yes.

MR. PORTER: As is your wife?

MR. AGHAJAN: Yes.

MR. PORTER: Very good, thank you. That's all from me for now.

MADAM CHAIR: Mr. Preyra quickly, and then Ms. Whalen.

MR. PREYRA: Just a very quick question to clarify something that Mr. Steele asked. When you were looking for this mentorship arrangement, were you given a list of suitable mentor companies?

MR. AGHAJAN: No.

MR. PREYRA: So you went out looking on your own and you found Dalhousie University where a researcher was doing research in your area. Were you ever told why Dalhousie University was not a suitable mentor company?

MR. AGHAJAN: Not in detail, but they told me that we needed a company active in business, in economical field - not in the medical field.

MR. PREYRA: Okay, so you were told that it had to be a business mentor company, a corporate body in fact.

MR. AGHAJAN: Yes.

MR. PREYRA: Thank you.

MADAM CHAIR: Ms. Whalen.

MS. WHALEN: I have just a couple of questions on how you got matched to the home renovation company. When you first signed up for this program overseas, before you came here, did you expect to be given a list of companies? Was that what you were told, that you would be introduced to a choice of companies?

MR. AGHAJAN: Somebody called me and said, I can help you in finding a good company, who was a broker.

MS. WHALEN: So you did have a broker who said they could arrange that. Did you pay a broker any funds when you . . .

MR. AGHAJAN: No.

MS. WHALEN: Only because they didn't provide you with a good match.

MR. AGHAJAN: Yes, yes.

MS. WHALEN: So you were certainly disappointed on this end, when you arrived and there was no help in getting that.

MR. AGHAJAN: Yes.

MS. WHALEN: Can you tell me who introduced you to the company, then, that you ultimately signed with, the home renovation company?

MR. AGHAJAN: No.

MS. WHALEN: Was it the Office of Immigration that said to you we have a company that is approved?

MR. AGHAJAN: No, not from the Immigration Office.

MS. WHALEN: How did you find them?

MR. AGHAJAN: I mentioned this problem to my friend who is a psychiatrist. He told me that somebody can help me and after two days someone called me.

MS. WHALEN: Okay, so it was more through a network of friends that you just - and did you feel pressure that you must find a company, otherwise you're going to lose your $100,000 completely?

MR. AGHAJAN: Yes, because I had to meet it for one year.

MS. WHALEN: Were you at the one-year point, almost?

MR. AGHAJAN: Yes.

MS. WHALEN: Could you just tell us again when you arrived and when you signed the contract?

MR. AGHAJAN: I arrived here in September 2006 and I signed after three months.

MS. WHALEN: But you did feel urgency about making sure that you had that in place. I think it is most unfortunate that where you had a proper match with your experience at the university, that that was not admissible or didn't meet the criteria of the company. I think we would all agree that you had done a good job to find that connection and it wasn't accepted.

MR. AGHAJAN: Unfortunate.

MS. WHALEN: Thank you very much.

MADAM CHAIR: Mr. Porter, quickly.

MR. PORTER: Thank you, and very quickly, why did you choose the economic stream versus a professional stream? Those were options to you at the time - being a professional, your wife a professional person, versus the economic stream.

MR. AGHAJAN: I told that I like to come here as soon as possible and . . .

MR. PORTER: You wanted to come to practice in your profession, though, you wanted to be matched as a professional versus professional, to study and learn your profession and go to work in your profession here. So that was an option to you to choose under the professional stream to come in, but you chose the economic stream to come in.

MR. AGHAJAN: Yes.

MR. PORTER: Okay, and just very quickly, I'll ask you as well as I did earlier to the others, did you have any correspondence with the Department of Immigration or anyone else with regard to your situation, by way of concern or complaint or whatever word you'd like to use there?

MR. AGHAJAN: Unfortunately, for that process I needed to have around five to six years in the waiting list for coming here. But this program I came here only at nine months and I haven't had any time for coming here.

MR. PORTER: Okay, I guess my question was, did you contact anybody in the Department of Immigration to complain about your situation, or to express concerns you had?

MR. AGHAJAN: No.

MR. PORTER: Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair.

MADAM CHAIR: Thank you very much. We do need to move on.

Our next presenter is Farzin Farrashzadeh. Good morning.

MR. FARZIN FARRASHZADEH: My name is Farzin. As you know, everybody all over the world has a dream to get to Canada because of the good life, because of the democratic situation. Personally, when I decided to move to Canada I had a lot of dreams, the same as others, but unfortunately after I arrived here I found a difference because of, I think, the unjustice of government.

I found good, hospitable people in Nova Scotia, but when I arrived here it was June 23, 2006, exactly three weeks before Cornwallis unexpectedly closed. I went to Cornwallis and it was forced to me because I was under pressure. All my wealth in my homeland was $300,000 which included my house, summer house and my workshop. Because of paying this much money, I sold my shares and also I borrowed money from my father-in-law and paid it to Cornwallis at that time, I sent my money. It was forced to me to sign the contract because I have two little daughters and I have to finance them.

[10:00 a.m.]

I decided to sign the contract as soon as possible and Cornwallis, at that time, gave me, I think it was, 44 different companies, but none of them matched with my own work or specialty. I decided to sign a contract with one of them and I chose Atbin Homes Limited, a construction company. I signed a contract with that man. At first he talked to me a lot, friendly and also he said to me, I will give you a long-term job. I talked with my wife and she said to me, if he gives you a long-term job it is better, you accept $20,000 because at that time we heard about other nominees without any work, some of them get $50,000, some of them $40,000, but I accepted $20,000 because of the long term, but I didn't know I have to write in the contract.

I signed a contract and went to the company that has just one boss and one secretary and started my work. Every day I went to work around 7:30 until 5:00. I went there as a project manager, but my job was the same as a labourer. I had to carry a big generator back to the truck every day, carrying shingles up three floors and many other kinds of jobs, as you know, in a construction company.

I finished my six-month job on December 8, 2006. At that time I didn't have any money because I was under pressure so I went to the Immigration Office and complained about this situation. When I arrived here I talked to Cornwallis, and said, give my own money to myself, maybe I could establish a job here and it's good for me, but they didn't accept. They said to me, you contribute this money to the economy of Nova Scotia and I said, you're right, I accept.

I went to the Immigration Office to complain about this situation saying I worked as a labourer in this company. I think all the companies just want the nominees' money, no

supervision from Cornwallis and also from Immigration Office because after Cornwallis I think Immigration Office has to supervise and manage Nominee Program, no supervision. Unfortunately, I finished and complained to the Immigration Office and the lady at the Immigration Office said to me, you can't complain about the money. You contributed this money to the economy of Nova Scotia, so never talk about money. I said, that's okay, so I didn't try to complain.

I went and got my taxi driving licence. Now I am driving a cab for seven, eight months and I come here because of good life, because of justice. I come here because I want my kids to grow up in a safe place. I come here because I want my kids to grow up with a good education and also I think my kids need me as a father, this is more important, safety and other things, but unfortunately I have to drive every day, more than 10 to 12 hours. When I speak with people and I say I drive 12 hours a day they say to me, you're crazy. Yes, I'm crazy, believe me because this is a struggle for life, I have to do something to survive my family here.

I'm not complaining a lot. I just want to say the new decision is not fair to people the same as me because I worked six months as a labourer and got just $20,000. After six months the company's owner didn't keep his word and said to me, I have to lay you off because it's shut down. I went on unemployment insurance for four months and after that I started driving a cab. So to get a driving cab licence I passed a lot of red tape and it was very hard for me in a new culture, a new country. Believe me, I am under pressure.

I got my licence just for reading maps. I didn't know any buildings, but I got my licence with a good score and I work with a lot of pressure. I don't have anything to say, but I think you make a decision and refund all the nominees' money. It doesn't matter if some of them have a lot of money or some of them have no money, all of the nominees come to Canada through the same process, so I think the government has to treat them all the same. If you want to refund money, you have to refund all of the money for all of the nominees. If you don't want to refund, that's okay, we are satisfied. You collect all the nominees' money, for example, build a new hospital in Nova Scotia. I think people need a new hospital, new facilities, 800 people plus $130,000, it's huge money, you could build a new hospital for people, I am satisfied if you don't refund my money. But if you want to refund 600 nominees' money and just 200 already signed a contract and finished the job, it's not fair, I think it is not fair. Thank you.

MADAM CHAIR: Thank you. Ms. Whalen.

MS. WHALEN: Thank you very much for coming today and being so honest and open in telling us about your dreams and aspirations in coming to Nova Scotia. It's very important for us to hear and that's why I'm so glad you were able to come today. One of the things that you pointed out is that you made a lot of sacrifices to find the money to come here

to Nova Scotia, that you had to sell everything you had and you had to borrow from your family.

MR. FARRASHZADEH: I sold my share actually, I had over there doorhandles production industry, I sold my share and also borrowed from my in-law to pay.

MS. WHALEN: And I think that helps to show that it isn't always people with vast resources who are coming here, that it is regular, ordinary people who have a dream, people who want to make a better life for their family and when you speak about your daughters, it's very clear. I'm sure all of us have been struck by what you're saying. What I wanted to know specifically was about two things, one was that you were promised - in that decision to sign a contract with this company you were led to believe at least that there would be a long-term job? You were told, we'll hire you later on.

MR. FARRASHZADEH: Yes.

MS. WHALEN: I know you weren't doing the work you expected to be doing, but when you came to the end of the six months was there any discussion about continuing on or transferring that to a regular job?

MR. FARRASHZADEH: I couldn't understand exactly what your question is, but when I arrived here I went to Cornwallis and found Atbin Homes Limited. That guy promised me, I will give you a long-term job, but he didn't keep his promise.

MS. WHALEN: I think that's the clear point. When the six months was completed you did say you went back to the Office of Immigration and told them how inappropriate the experience was?

MR. FARRASHZADEH: Yes.

MS. WHALEN: That you weren't learning the kind of experience that matched your background as an owner of a manufacturing company and so on?

MR. FARRASHZADEH: It was not matched with my own . . .

MS. WHALEN: I guess I just want to know, did you put it in writing? Was there anything written to say that you didn't have a good experience?

MR. FARRASHZADEH: Yes. I went to the Immigration Office and actually they write - all my complaint I think is at the Immigration Office. But the lady said to me, I can't do anything for you because you didn't try, for example, a long-term job, blah, blah, blah.

MS. WHALEN: Thank you very much.

MADAM CHAIR: Mr. Preyra.

MR. PREYRA: I just have two quick questions. Did you know at the time that you applied that there was a minimum amount of money that you needed to have to get into the program?

MR. FARRASHZADEH: Yes.

MR. PREYRA: So to meet that minimum amount you sold your home and liquidated all of your assets and you borrowed money from your father-in-law to get up to the $300,000, is that right?

MR. FARRASHZADEH: Actually, exactly I knew the program because I knew I had to pay $130,000. Also, I knew they guaranteed me a six-month job as a manger in a middle-management job. I knew everything and I knew this program was the fastest program to get into Canada because my wife and I, both of us, have a bachelor degree in nursing, but we didn't want to wait for six or five years to get into Canada; we are skilled workers. We decided to sell my share and borrow money to come here.

MR. PREYRA: When you got into this contract was it your understanding that the business mentor, the company that you were working with, was approved by the Office of Immigration?

MR. FARRASHZADEH: No.

MR. PREYRA: Was it your understanding that the contract was approved by the Office of Immigration?

MR. FARRASHZADEH: At first I thought I contributed this amount of money to the economy of Nova Scotia. I didn't know that Cornwallis or the government wanted to give my money to the owner of the company. The owner of the company has millions of dollars, but I didn't know. After I signed the contract some of the nominees, I found it by accident, he said to me, I didn't work, I got $50,000 without any work.

At that time I said to the owner, could you please let me go to the other company? He said to me, no, by law we signed a contract, I couldn't allow you to leave this job, you have to stay here. I found that the company just wanted my money, not me as a manager and also to mentor me as a project manager.

MR. PREYRA: Just one last question. When you found out that this contract was not going to be honoured and that you weren't going to be a project manager, you were going to be a labourer, did you get the sense from the contract that the Office of Immigration would

be able to do something about it or was monitoring it or was looking into these contracts at any stage, to make sure that the terms of the agreement were being followed?

MR. FARRASHZADEH: I am not a stupid person but I am a very quiet person. At the time when I signed the contract and contacted the guy I worked for, the first week when I talked with him I found he wanted just my money, not me as a project manager. If he wanted me as a project manager and also if he wanted to mentor me, I would never have worked as a labourer. So he wanted my money, just my money and also during the six months it doesn't matter for him if I worked or if I didn't work.

[10:15 a.m.]

Also, imagine a company just has one owner, one secretary and all the jobs to do with other companies, for example, carpenters, roof lights, shingles, and other companies actually work for him. So I work just labour. I didn't get any experience here so as I say, I need to finance my family and also I need to support them. I decided to be a cab driver, now I am a cab driver.

MADAM CHAIR: Thank you. Mr. Dunn.

MR. PATRICK DUNN: Thank you for sharing your experience with the committee. One question I have, I believe you have already answered it, how much does the experience cost you and you mentioned $130,000. Could you break that down again, $130,000.

MR. FARRASHZADEH: It's $130,000.

MR. DUNN: What I mean is, $130,000 wasn't passed over in one lump sum. Did you have an agent or broker?

MR. FARRASHZADEH: Actually when I heard about this program I contacted a lawyer in Toronto, actually they have a large advertisement to the Internet and also on TV. When I contacted them they followed this program. Actually they didn't know at that time there was this program. They search about this and after one week, I think, they said to me yes, I could follow your program to get in Canada and I charge you $6,000 U.S. dollars. I paid to the lawyer step by step, until I get here. I didn't know, again, the government wanted to give $20,000 of my money to that lawyer who did the process.

MR. DUNN: You made reference to, as a project manager all they wanted was your money.

MR. FARRASHZADEH: Yes.

MR. DUNN: Can you give us some examples why you knew that? Did they say anything? Did they say if it was important for you to be reporting to work, or did it matter to come to work? Basically you had the feeling in that capacity as a project manager, they didn't really care what you were doing. So were there any conversations that made you think that?

MR. FARRASHZADEH: We talked a lot because that guy was Iranian guy and also when I arrived here my English I thought was not good, I need to progress my English. I need to go to some company that I could talk with them, I could relate with them. I decided to go to that company because he is Iranian, I can talk in my own language. I talk with him a lot but . . .

MR. DUNN: Did you work very long with him?

MR. FARRASHZADEH: Yes, I worked for 6 months.

MADAM CHAIR: Order. We're going to have to move on, I'm sorry. We've taken about 25 minutes with one presentation. We want to thank you very much for coming, thank you very much.

Okay, our next presenter is Mr. Ian Russell.

MR. IAN RUSSELL: Good morning and thank you for allowing me to come here to be in front of you to tell you about my experience with the Nova Scotia Nominee Program. I arrived in Nova Scotia in 2004. I have to say to this committee that I'm proud to be a Scotsman but I'm extremely proud to be a Nova Scotian, and I make no excuse for saying that, I truly don't.

I have had really first-hand experience of the Provincial Nominee Program and I must say this to you, that the two and a half years - yes, it took me two and a half years to get in as a landed immigrant - was perhaps the most horrendous two and a half years of my life and I didn't go through the mentorship program.

But please don't think for a second that I blame the provincial Immigration Department, quite the opposite, absolutely quite the opposite. Without the provincial Immigration Department, my wife and I would have simply given up and just gone home, it's just so difficult. With the support that we were given by the Department of Immigration, that's what really made us stay.

I think the committee should know that the provincial Department of Immigration has some remarkable people working there. I would like to name a couple of people who were tremendous support to me and my wife; one was Elizabeth Mills, Director of Immigration; the other person was Frances Wolfe, and I have to tell you that without Frances' support, we

truly would have been on a plane heading back to Scotland. However, my experience with the whole department has been first-class, absolutely first-class, every single member of staff who we dealt with was supportive.

My wife and I also have experience with Cornwallis Financial Corporation and I have seen the work that the principals put into the Provincial Nominee Program, not necessarily just on the mentorship side. However, I think you should not forget this, that that organization was a Crown representative, they represent the Crown of Nova Scotia. Now whether that was right or it wasn't right is neither for me to say or for me to guess. They were put in place to administer a program, the Nominee Program and its various streams.

The $130,000 option, I never agreed with it. It was, in my opinion, morally incorrect, it should not have been allowed to happen. This was just simply a fast way of getting into Nova Scotia, irrespective of what your qualifications were, it was the fastest way you could get into this province.

I am totally convinced, and I've listened this morning to some of the nominees, that every single applicant who came through that process came through knowing that that was the fastest way to get into Nova Scotia.

The people who went through the Mentorship Program could have quite easily taken the same route as most other nominees did, and then it takes two and a half years. So I can understand and sympathize why they chose to spend $130,000. If you asked me the question today - in hindsight and the knowledge that I have today having lived in Nova Scotia since 2004 - would I pay $130,000 to get into Nova Scotia, I'll give you a simple answer, yes. Even though I think it is morally incorrect, it should not be allowed, I personally would pay $130,000 to come and live in Nova Scotia.

The rights and wrongs of the program are simply irrelevant, they really are irrelevant. What we need to do, I believe, is to look at how we make it better now because the wrong is done and we can't change that wrong. I believe that Ms. Elizabeth Mills and her team have taken tremendous strides to make Nova Scotia a desirable province to come and live in but there is a lot more hard work still to be done.

You keep looking for difficult answers to easy questions. I'm sure everyone here today would agree with me that immigration is essential to Nova Scotia. Nova Scotia and Canada were built upon immigration and continue to be built upon that today. It is this diversity that makes Nova Scotia a wonderful place.

I would like to conclude what I have to say by giving this committee an easy answer to a difficult question, how do we get more immigrants, because that's truly what we're searching for. With a decreasing population in Nova Scotia, we need to bring in immigrants from all over the world. I believe this could be done and made very, very simple. Every

applicant who wishes to come to the province, upon application should be granted an immediate two-year work permit, subject to a satisfactory criminal record check done in their own country, before they come to Nova Scotia, and then coming to Nova Scotia, having a medical done in Halifax - not in their own country, here in Halifax, so that our surgeons and our consultants in Nova Scotia can see that these people will not become a burden on the health care system.

This will allow candidates to start contributing to Nova Scotia because there's the difficulty, that if you are sitting, as I was, for two and a half years, you're not contributing, although I would add I spent over $400,000 of my own money buying a house and having my cars and all sorts of things and loving here and I was in a fortunate position I was able to do that.

I had had complete support from the Department of Immigration and I'm pleased to see my MLA here today because I also had complete support from my MLA as well. When we were going through the difficult times and couldn't understand why the hurdles were being put in front of us, Junior Theriault was there for us and that's an important part of this immigration process as well.

I think if you allow people and then give them that two-year work permit, what they have is an opportunity to apply through the program that contributes to Nova Scotia while they're here. If, at the end of two years they've done nothing, then you've no option but to ask them to leave the province and reapply in another two years' time, if they choose to come back to Nova Scotia. This is surely the solution and it would attract people to Nova Scotia and make Nova Scotia a better place for every single one of us to live in because that's truly what I believe Nova Scotia is about, making it a better place for us all to live in.

I thank you for giving me the opportunity to give my personal views to this committee and I make you a promise and I will continue to encourage my fellow Brits to come and visit this wonderful province and to continually promote Nova Scotia at all times.

MADAM CHAIR: Thank you very much. Mr. Steele, and Mr. Preyra, Mr. Porter, Ms. Whalen.

MR. STEELE: Thank you very much, Mr. Russell. I can't resist starting off by saying that I am the son of immigrants from Scotland so I've benefited from that pattern myself.

I just want to make sure that I understand your personal situation; you said that you didn't come through the Nominee Program. You've heard some of the previous witnesses say that for them and all of the previous ones, I believe, were from Iran, they were facing five to six years if they went through the regular stream. Could you just explain to us which stream you did go through and why that took you two and a half years, if they were facing five to six years?

MR. RUSSELL: I came through the community identified scheme - there's not much known about it. What it is, the regional development agency in Digby-Annapolis identified me as someone who could give benefit to the community. When I came to Nova Scotia, I came with a very clear vision in my head; to come to New Scotland, to be an old Scot and get to be a new Scot was quite an honour, but it was about giving back to Nova Scotia and that's something, I think, that we all forget. For me, I'm privileged to be here, I'm privileged to come to this new country and by being community identified - and I think Junior Theriault would agree with this - we work very closely with the communities. I take trade missions to Scotland, we look at bringing in more investment to Nova Scotia, we just had a week of one of Scotland's top entrepreneurs here to bring in investment, so that's where the economic development side came in, community identified.

MADAM CHAIR: Mr. Preyra.

MR. PREYRA: Just a comment really, Mr. Russell. Thank you very much for coming here today and certainly we'll echo what you have to say about Nova Scotia, but certainly what you have to say about the Office of Immigration. As the Immigration Critic for the Official Opposition, you should know that this is not about individual members of the Office of Immigration, certainly in our contact with them they have been very professional and very good. What we are concerned with here today is about the Nova Scotia Nominee Program and in particular, from the witnesses who have appeared, with the business mentorship side of that.

What we would like to do is give the nominees a chance to speak about their experience in the program and we want to know about the conceptualization of this program, we want to know about mechanisms that were put in place for oversight, for review, for accountability, for correcting things that went wrong in the process, and we want to know about fairness, whether or not given the experience of some of these nominees in the program, whether or not that they're being treated fairly. Certainly, for the long term, we'd like to know what we can learn from this about setting up an immigration program and what we need to do. Really this is not about individual members of the Office of Immigration, I know Carmelle d'Entremont is here and we've had a very good working relationship and certainly, it's a credit to her that many of these issues are being dealt with. We are more interested in the structures that were put in place and the processes. Thank you.

MR. RUSSELL: Can I just reply to that? I was actually offered the $130,000 by Cornwallis; I know both the principals of Cornwallis Financial Corporation very well. However, being the miserable Scotsman that I am, the thought of spending $130,000 of my money to get in here quickly really didn't appeal to me. I have to say that both Steven Lockyer and Michael Mailman explained it in great detail to me; still it didn't convince me because, as I say, morally I feel the program was wrong. However, as I said to you earlier, given the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had paid the $130,000, I truly do.

MADAM CHAIR: Thank you. Mr. Porter, then Ms Whalen, and Mr. Theriault on the speaking list and I'd like you to be as quick as you possibly can.

MR. PORTER: Thank you, Madam Chair and I will. Thank you, Mr. Russell, as well for your comments and sharing your experiences in coming into this country and being a proud Nova Scotian, it's great to have you. Just very quickly, having been someone who has gone through that process you seem to have a pretty clear understanding of how it works. The first question that came to my mind was, you have heard the people this morning so far that have spoken before this committee. Do you think they had a clear understanding from the outset of how this program worked and where they would end up?

MR. RUSSELL: Absolutely not.

MR. PORTER: Why would that be?

MR. RUSSELL: I think language barriers would perhaps be the first problem and I truly think that that is an issue. I don't think the program was clearly thought out. The idea in principle was good, let's get $130,000, what you're actually buying are skilled workers, we need to have wealthy people come to Nova Scotia, that's a great thing for Nova Scotia and I think that's really what they were targeting. Cornwallis was targeting to bring in people who had a bit of wealth as well as that management experience, but I certainly think the failure, if I can comment on the failure, would be the lack of explaining how the system worked. I think it was a hodgepodge of things, there was no clear defined route for any of the nominees.

My heart goes out to these people, but you have to be absolutely clear as well that there were people that chose and fully understood that by paying $130,500 they'd fast-track it in Nova Scotia and truly didn't care whether they lost the $130,000, as long as they were able to come to Canada and to Nova Scotia.

MADAM CHAIR: We're going to move on. Ms. Whalen.

MS. WHALEN: Yes, and thank you very much, Mr. Russell, for bringing your experience and perspective. I think one of the big differences right how is that you have a great facility with English, clearly, and you mentioned yourself the language barrier is a problem and perhaps may have influenced how people, other people, perceived the program or what they understood to be the obligation of the province or the business community when they entered into a contract with one of these individuals. So it is more difficult and there are also countries where there is more urgency to be leaving your country, perhaps the difference between five and six years, as was mentioned earlier, and a nine-month wait makes a big difference as well.

I did want to just reiterate a bit about what Mr. Preyra has said and that is that we also are great supporters of immigration in this province and really welcomed the establishment of an Office of Immigration when that was announced. I think it is the right thing for our province. I think you have alluded to something very important and that is that those of you who have come, under whatever stream of the Nominee Program, have a lot to contribute in defining how we go forward and what kind of program we put in place. I hope you'll make yourself available to be an asset and help in that regard.

My main concern is that all the nominees who have come in and have made the commitment to stay in Nova Scotia - because we know others have paid the money and gone elsewhere, but those who have made the commitment - that we make them feel that Nova Scotia is a fair and just place and that they will continue to be great promoters, as you are, of our province.

MADAM CHAIR: Thank you very much. Mr. Theriault, the last word is yours, quickly.

MR. HAROLD THERIAULT: Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you Ian for coming. I just get the gist of what you're saying is that it's good that you would pay $130,000 to come to this country and probably what I heard this morning, people all over the world, that's their dream, to come to this country. Now I've talked to you a lot, Ian, and you do love it here and you think a lot of Nova Scotia. So the whole thing is that people bought into a bad program, for $130,000, it is kind of like paying $130,000 for a house and it falls down in six months, they bought a poor product.

So you're saying this program should continue and that it needs a lot of correcting.

MR. RUSSELL: No, I think the program should be abolished immediately, there should be no fees. Nova Scotia is crying for immigrants, we absolutely must get more immigrants to come here and we shouldn't have any fees. You should have administrative fees, perhaps, but certainly no one who has - I mean how many Nova Scotians could spend $130,000 to come into this program? If it was reversed, how many people in Nova Scotia could find $130,000? I don't think many, so the best way to do this program is to work with the Department of Immigration.

If I could make criticism, and I'm not here to make criticism, that the federal side is where we have to look, to make it easier, so that our Department of Immigration here in Halifax can actually do their job better. So I would abolish the $130,000 and never go down that route ever again, never.

MR. THERIAULT: Do you believe we should correct this problem, the mistakes that have been made?

MR. RUSSELL: Oh, I believe we should correct the problem. Yes, I do.

MADAM CHAIR: Thank you very much. Our next witness is Annemarie Schep-Stiger.

MS. ANNEMARIE SCHEP-STIGER: Thank you very much for the opportunity to be here and to give you an overview from our experience with the Nominee Program and the mentorship. My name is Annemarie Stiger. I immigrated two years ago with my husband and our five kids from the Netherlands. Actually he was the main applicant, my husband, so I am doing this case on his behalf.

The presentation will give you a clear overview of the situation before we immigrated, the situation as a landed immigrant and finding a mentorship place, the present situation and my personal opinions. By the way, I made copies for all of you so that may be handy for later.

MADAM CHAIR: Perhaps since there are copies, we'll have them distributed and rather than read through, in the interest of time, if you could sort of give us the highlights.

MS. SCHEP-STIGER: In November 2004, we signed a contract with Buysse Immigration Consultancy from the Netherlands to provide us with seven visas on a permanent basis and actually, we were very looking forward to have permanent visas because we were immigrating with five kids and we find it so unsure to go on the work permit or on another basis.

Before we signed, Buysse let us know that it would be probably the only way to come into Canada because you have to gain points based on your education, experience, age, whatever, and in our case he explained that we were just short on points and the only way to get into Canada was through the Nominee Program.

The way he explained the Nominee Program sounded pretty safe, starting up in a new country, having a half-year job sounded like sort of a guaranteed safe start. The only struggle was the high fee and we really struggled with that but we agreed and let him know, okay, we will try to go for the interview. Within two months we travelled to Halifax for a one-week stay for the interview. During that period we had two meetings; one at the beginning of the week with Ms. Heather Selig, just to inform us about the final interview, the Nominee Program, the situation in Nova Scotia and all those kinds of things.

We were really interested to have Dutch names from families who were living here and businesses. It was hard for her to give that, she said it is actually privacy protected so we can't supply those names. She literally advised us to visit all the historical places in Nova Scotia, like Peggy's Cove, Lunenburg and so on, which was great, too, because it's beautiful here. Actually we were more looking for information from people who already lived here.

Okay, after a couple of days we had our final test with Ms. Frances Wolfe from the Office of Economic Development. It was more sort of a formality rather than a real test if we were the right persons because to be honest with you, my husband doesn't speak the language and I don't think she had a clue about that during that interview. Okay, before we headed out to the Netherlands we already knew that we passed the test, so back in Holland we had six weeks to think it over. Every week during that period Buysse Immigration called us, if we already knew if we would continue with the Nominee Program. Finally we did and we signed the contracts and the whole process continued.

This brings me to the second point, status as landed immigrants and the Mentorship Program. We arrived here January 7, 2006, and we became landed immigrants and we settled in the beautiful Annapolis Valley in Kentville. We didn't go to any Dutch names but we tried to start networking over the Internet with the addresses from here and we found a very nice couple with some Dutch roots, too, and they helped us find a rented house, provided information about schools, possible jobs and so on.

By that time, and actually before we left Holland, we asked Cornwallis several times by e-mail and phone calls if they had any intention where the possible mentorship place would be because it was very important for renting a house. They let us know, be quiet, be quiet, as soon as you're in Nova Scotia it is early enough to look around and find a mentorship place. So, well, we had no choice but to accept that, but it continued by the time we arrived here and we tried to be in contact with them the whole time. The only thing they did was provide us with a list of possible jobs. I think all of the applicants got this list and it only provides you with titles of jobs like, you can be an administrative service manager or you can be a manager in engineering or in health or whatever - no names, no addresses, no phones of possible businesses that would participate in the program.

They convinced us, well, if you can find your own mentor that would be great. So off we went and through the networking actually we discovered a Dutch community through church, which is very handy, and we found a mentor. In the beginning he was very careful and he did a lot of investigation. Finally he agreed and he would participate in the Mentorship Program, so May 18, 2006, we signed the contracts at the Cornwallis office with his mentor and my husband.

I think right from the beginning the mentor got the $50,000 and by the end of the period the rest of the amount. We never had any clue where the $30,000 stayed. We thought it was just for the government and later we heard also that Buysse Immigration Consultancy earned $20,000 of that amount of money, which he never had told us or signed the contract for, we paid another fee which I will reflect on later.

Our case is complicated because of the fact that my husband wasn't a middle management guy and the mentor saw that actually right from the beginning, but he didn't report it to Cornwallis, he only mentioned it actually to me. One of the statements of the

program was that the mentor and also the employee would gather information and bring knowledge and skills to each other to expand the mentorship place or business, but also the knowledge of the guy who was coming here.

[10:45 a.m.]

My husband couldn't give any knowledge or skills, although he was a hard worker and he really liked the work that he was doing. After three months he couldn't work any longer, he's struggling with a mental illness, probably because of the immigration. The mentor paid the rest of the three months' salary back in which I agreed because it gave us at least the $20,000 back from the high amount of money we had to pay. There was no feedback by that time or interaction with Cornwallis and we only knew that we got our visa by staying there and finishing the contract.

It brings me to the present situation. We are more than a year further now, but my husband isn't able to start up his own business because of his remaining disorder. He definitely cannot cope with the immigration, he has withdrawn himself from everything and everyone, so even from his family. That means that I have to take care of our income, our five growing kids, our settling in here in Canada, our social life and so on.

I wouldn't have done anything with the fee of the Nominee Program; however, this summer it showed up in the news that immigrants were complaining and blaming Cornwallis for what they were supposed to do, but didn't do. I followed this whole process and when it came to the point that immigration decided to pay refunds to all of those immigrants who didn't get a mentorship, I strongly felt to let the Minister of Immigration know that even immigrants who did sign a contract and tried to follow the program wouldn't receive the benefits either.

He responded to my letter, which was sent last November, by letting me know that there was nothing he could do before there was any final report from the Auditor General. He wished me all the best in continuing making Nova Scotia our new home which I try, of course, but when I look back at how we came here expectant, exciting, as a family, right now the main person who was responsible for our living is gone. We have to stay here because we already invested a lot of money, we bought a property, you have to buy a car, you have to buy a lot of electrical furniture because of the power difference with Europe and America, and as I see at all the effort especially I had to make because when we immigrated I was the only person of the family who spoke the language.

When I look at where Cornwallis missed the ball, I'm strongly convinced that I deserve a refund too. Do you think it is fair to people like us who try to arrange everything themselves to be excluded from compensation on the basis that we have received a service?

I gave you a brief overview of the costs, it's on the yellow page in the copy. The fee that we had to pay Buysse for his consultancy services was nearly $9,400 Cdn. He never mentioned anything that he earned also extra money from the Nominee Program. Then we had to pay the fee for the interview, of course, the $1,700 and we had to stay in Halifax for this interview a week and that roughly cost around $3,500 Cdn. In March 2005, we paid the fee for the Nominee Program which was - we already paid the interview fee beforehand and there stays the $128,800 Cdn.

MADAM CHAIR: Excuse me, I'm going to interrupt you for a second. I think we have the fees in front of us so we see this. Perhaps we can get to your conclusion, because I know people are anxious to ask you questions and we'll be taking a break at 11:00 a.m. so that the Legislative TV people can change their tape. So we have a time constraint, I'm sorry.

MS. SCHEP-STIGER: No problem. My conclusion - I think the program isn't too bad. It provides a good start and partnership with established businesses here in Nova Scotia. I think the costs, however, are not stimulating. Maybe a bonus from the government from here to people who really want to spend time and money in this part of the country would be more stimulating than paying a bonus and even for a mentor, I guess.

In our case, the mentor's objectives and services were good, absolutely, but it was clear that the employee didn't meet the expectations and I'm wondering who was responsible to check that. The three months that were left after my husband couldn't work anymore, I think Cornwallis had to check this and find out if the bonus was really earned by the mentor, especially looking at the fact that the mentor's opinion was already that he wasn't from a middle management level.

This brings me to Point 4. This Cornwallis earned the fee of $10,000 Cdn. for what they were supposed to do and is it honest that Buysse earned another $20,000 Cdn. on top of the $9,400 which we already paid? If we had a clue that this was all going to happen, why would I work so hard to obtain for a mentorship place?

My opinion is that we deserve the refund and actually, we are not asking for money from the government, for Cornwallis, the mentor or Buysse - it was our savings money, the fee that we had to pay in 2005. I do hope the government will change their decision based upon our and others' experiences. Thank you.

MADAM CHAIR: Thank you. Mr. Steele, Mr. Glavine and Mr. Porter.

MR. STEELE: Thank you very much for coming today. You've come to a new country with a large family, you found that your spouse has become very ill and I just wanted to say that I think your courage is astonishing.

My question really is very simple. You acknowledged that your family situation is complicated, your husband did start a mentorship, it turned out for complicated reasons not to work out. When you get right down to it, in your opinion, what would be fair? How much of a refund would it be fair for your family to get back?

MS. SCHEP-STIGER: Well, that's hard to answer. We received already the $20,000 in salary form, so I think the rest of the $100,000 - the $80,000.

MR. STEELE: And my other question very simply, during the course of your presentation you held up two documents. One, I think, is a list of positions and the other was a letter from the minister. I was wondering if we could get a copy of those documents before you leave today.

MS. SCHEP-STIGER: Was this the first one?

MR. STEELE: That was the first document and I thought I saw you hold up the letter that you received from the minister.

MS. SCHEP-STIGER: No, I didn't.

MR. STEELE: Okay, that was my mistake. Perhaps we could get a copy of that other document before you leave today, thank you.

MS. SCHEP-STIGER: Yes, sure.

MADAM CHAIR: Mr. Glavine.

MR. GLAVINE: Thank you very much for coming in this morning. Being from the Annapolis Valley, I hope you will stay in the beautiful Annapolis Valley.

MS. SCHEP-STIGER: We like it.

MR. GLAVINE: You've had a very difficult start, obviously from your presentation. Did you have a sense from the early contact that Cornwallis could deliver and do a lot more for you than the reality that you experienced?

MS. SCHEP-STIGER: Oh, yes, for sure. Actually, he let us know about immigration, to see if we could start right from the beginning - maybe a couple of weeks just to get used to your new life - but then for sure the next months there would be a job. Actually I forgot to say, Cornwallis came to us with a job, but it was a cranberry farm that was for sale in Cape Breton. So we already had some networks and they said, don't start with a cranberry farm, it's too specific and especially who is going to Cape Breton with five young kids, but it was for sale, so I'm glad I didn't do that.

MR. GLAVINE: I pick up on that because by this point, Cornwallis has been in the business now for about four years, helping people through the Nominee Program. It is disappointing to see how little they help you in actually making the transition because I know several Dutch families who have immigrated to the Valley and of course have done extremely well and paid no money. So here you are, paid big dollars and don't seem to have gained too much from the program. Thank you.

MADAM CHAIR: Mr. Porter.

MR. PORTER: Just a very quick question. You talked about a variety of issues and I'm just wondering in all of that did you at any time contact the Office of Immigration to express your concerns, troubles you were having?

MS. SCHEP-STIGER: No, we didn't. By that time, I was the person who had to do that, of course, and in the contract there was nothing about illness or whatever. So I was just worried, you know, when I let him know I can forget about it - the $20,000 either - so then nothing of the money would come back. So that was actually the reason that I agreed with the mentor, leave it like it is, pay us the rest of the salary, he earned his bonus and that is it.

MADAM CHAIR: Mr. Preyra.

MR. PREYRA: Just a quick question. I know you didn't get a chance to go through your overview of related costs and I have a question about your one week stay in Halifax during the interview - more specifically, you paid about $3,500 for that week. I want to know what your relationship was with the nominee welcoming centre at that time and whether the welcoming centre or the Office of Immigration offered you any support at that time during the week that you were here?

MS. SCHEP-STIGER: No, they let us know there could be a guide to tour us around, but we had to pay for that guide on a daily basis. They advised us well, when you do this on your own, maybe it's even better. The costs are for renting a car, the tickets, the hotel overnight, so that's it.

MR. PREYRA: Could you tell us how much you paid for the tour, you went to Peggy's Cove?

MS. SCHEP-STIGER: Yes, but we did it all ourselves, so not with a guide.

MR. PREYRA: So you didn't take the tour?

MS. SCHEP-STIGER: No.

MR. PREYRA: Did you get any briefing from Cornwallis or the Office of Immigration about employment opportunities or business opportunities in Nova Scotia at the time?

MS. SCHEP-STIGER: No, only the list that I already showed with possible jobs, positions, but that was all.

MR. PREYRA: So what did your $3,500 buy you then during that week?

MS. SCHEP-STIGER: Sorry?

MR. PREYRA: What did you get for your $3,500? I know you talked about your other costs for the consultants and all of that, but what did you get for . . .

MS. SCHEP-STIGER: The $3,500 was just for the week's stay there, so the tickets for our flights, which would be a big part of that amount of money, I guess, renting the car and doing the hotel visit and just touring around.

MR. PREYRA: And you did that all on your own?

MS. SCHEP-STIGER: Yes, the two of us.

MR. PREYRA: Thank you.

MADAM CHAIR: Ms. Whalen.

MS. WHALEN: Thank you again for being here and just a couple of quick questions to understand more fully. You were quite clear that your husband didn't have a middle management background and you said that he doesn't speak English, he probably does now but didn't speak English at the time of the interview, but you were interviewed during your one week stay, you did have an interview with the Office of Immigration?

MS. SCHEP-STIGER: Yes.

MS. WHALEN: Can you tell me how that went? Did you answer all of the questions?

MS. SCHEP-STIGER: To be honest with you, it was rather a monologue than it was a dialogue, so we were just listening actually to the beauty of Nova Scotia, again, to some funny jokes and well, that was it.

MS. WHALEN: So you weren't really being tested to see if you were proficient in English?

MS. SCHEP-STIGER: Not at all because that was my worry. My husband was the main applicant and I knew when she was starting questions, asking him, probably I would have to translate, right? But there was nothing that I had to translate.

MS. WHALEN: So you sailed through that interview and were told that everything was fine before you even left the country?

MS. SCHEP-STIGER: Yes, which gave us the feeling that only the fee mattered and not which kind of people came in by that time.

MS. WHALEN: My understanding was that that interview was to determine if you were ready to come to Nova Scotia in terms of language ability and understanding the situation and so on, so it doesn't seem to have done that. It didn't achieve its goal.

MS. SCHEP-STIGER: No.

MS. WHALEN: The other question I had was with your contact about not complaining to the Office of Immigration. I just wanted to clarify and I don't want to put words in your mouth, but in stopping halfway through the contract because your husband was unable to, there was an element of fear that you would lose the other half of his salary - there was no chance of getting the $100,000 back but you were frightened to lose even the next $10,000.

MS. SCHEP-STIGER: That's right.

MS. WHALEN: So there was a sort of urgency to come to an agreement with the mentor and just basically take what you could at that point.

MS. SCHEP-STIGER: That's right. Actually we were a little bit worried about the importance for our permanent visa by that time so we wouldn't - I didn't know if it would reflect the visa cards, too.

MS. WHALEN: So a question of whether you'd be asked to leave the country and that insecurity that would come with that because I can only imagine that with five children you have a lot of things to provide stability for your family.

MS. SCHEP-STIGER: Yes, and that's my important goal right now.

MS. WHALEN: I appreciate that, thank you.

MADAM CHAIR: Mr. Porter, quickly.

MR. PORTER: Thank you, very quickly, in that interview and throughout the process I know some language barriers obviously existed. Did you express any concern at the time to anyone or were you concerned yourself about that issue of not being able to speak - you speak good English but you said your husband, maybe your children, couldn't do that. Did you have any fears about that, coming to a new country, as well as the language being an issue for you?

MS. SCHEP-STIGER: Well, I don't know, maybe people are too positive always, they are always giving you compliments, which is nice to hear. But we know a couple of people who have immigrated and they said as soon as you start working it will be no problem at all, especially for your kids, as soon as they start attending school - which is true. I mean, the first two months were hard for them but now they are correcting me for my English.

MR. PORTER: Thank you.

MADAM CHAIR: How old are your children?

MS. SCHEP-STIGER: The oldest is 16 and the youngest is nearly 5, and then 15, 12 and 9. All boys, by the way. (Laughter)

MADAM CHAIR: That's what makes you so tough. (Laughter) Thank you very much for being here today.

We're going to take a five-minute recess to allow the Legislative TV people to change their tapes and what have you and we'll resume at 11:05 a.m.

[11:05 a.m. The committee recessed.]

[11:10 a.m. The committee resumed. ]

MADAM CHAIR: Order, I'd like to call the committee back to order, please.

I'd like to call our next witness, Mr. Leo Karunanayake. Good morning.

MR. LEO KARUNANAYAKE: Thank you very much to all of you for giving me an opportunity. Good morning, honourable chairlady and honourable members of the legislative committee. First of all, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to explain my situation in the Nova Scotia Nominee Program. From the very beginning, I have decided not disclose the particulars of the mentor company for the reputation and the smooth going of his business. After having two-way communication with me and my mentor company, authorities of Nova Scotia discontinued the mentorship realizing it was not a bona fide relationship. The authorities forfeited the mentor in his entitlement to have the second $50,000 from my funds

and my entitlement to participate in this program. This explains that the second $50,000 of my funds is still sitting in the trust fund. Please note that it is not disbursed.

Honourable chairlady and honourable members of the legislative committee, the mentor did not lose anything out of his own wallet. He even received $50,000 for nothing and the person who lost everything - I lost my family's life savings. This can be happening in a Third World country but we cannot accept such things to happen in a developed country where transparency exists. I didn't get any experience in a middle management position nor the experience in making a Canadian style soup. Every time I visited the restaurant, there was no place for me to sit and work. They did not assign me any work. They refused my services or my presence at the restaurant. The position of Research and Development Officer was only a position stated on the contract document. The actual position for me never existed. I have a feeling he refused my presence at the restaurant because I am an Asian; the colour.

He was given an opportunity, paying my funds to him, to give me a service that should have a real value in it. He discontinued the employment contract without just cause and even without having a discussion with me in the presence of an immigration officer. He has not even paid me the promised amount of money from my own funds of $50,000 that was released to him.

It is his obligation to return money back because he had not given any value for what he has received. Further, I want you honourable members to realize please consider the second $50,000 is still in the trust fund. It is not taxpayers' money, it is a portion of my funds, of the $130,500. Please note I think all of the 803 nominees would have been happy if they had thought enough at the inception of this program to use the interest of the trust fund for everyone's benefit.

After nearly a week of landing in Nova Scotia, I was asking from the authorities the list of mentors that they promised to provide us in this program. None of the officers were ready to provide to us that list. There was also a deadline of 12 months in finding a mentor company. Months were passing; it was very hard to get an appointment even to meet an immigration officer. I was so stressed out thinking of this situation. Once when we visited the Immigration Office my wife informed them about my health condition over this situation. One of the immigration lady officer's answer was; don't use sickness to get an appointment regarding this Mentorship Program. After explaining my health situation, even she didn't explain that I would be given an extension to find a mentor company. I was a bank manager in Sri Lanka with 25 years' experience in banking. I am also a Lion member of Sri Lanka.

[11:15 a.m.]

Since I failed to get the list of mentors from the authorities, I had to visit and canvass at the flea market in Halifax in finding a mentor. One company contacted the authorities but was frustrated for not even getting an appointment. Later he has given up his idea.

It was the eighth month I signed this null and void contract. Is it fair and humane to tell the successful nominee that he can't get an extension entered into an employment contract? Is it fair the authorities welcoming our funds and giving promises for a better future, to just ignore their obligations.

I am faced with an ineffective employment contract because the mentor did not comply with his obligations. The authorities also say I am not eligible to participate in this program. This is an exceptional place in this Nominee Program.

So what is the position I am standing in now? What is happening with my funds I paid to participate in this program? I should be eligible for the refund as I did not get real value for my money, which was promised by this program. In any program or in any production line all the products do not come out in good condition. There would always be a small percentage of products with defects but if these defective products were sold by mistake even, the owner always pays back to keep the reputation of the company and to treat the consumer fairly.

If you pay someone to get a service and the service provided did not comply his obligation, the service provider is always obliged to pay back the money that he refused to comply the service. Everybody experienced this method in Canada. I hope the competent authorities of this program would consider sympathetically the abundant rights of the nominee and treat the nominee fairly. Six hundred nominees out of 803 who came under the same program, who were under the same rules and obligations are entitled to have their refund because this program was not much of a benefit for the nominees.

I am very happy for that because ultimately the authorities have realized the unethical happenings connected to this program. I hope the authorities will also treat me fairly, who came under the same program and ended up in a contract that has not given real value for my money. I can't understand why the program makers of the Nova Scotia Nominee Program oversighted if the mentor did not comply with the policies how will they safeguard the rights of the nominee. Is it ethical for an authority to ignore the rights of the nominee who has been misled by the mentor?

The authorities seem to have considered only about the benefits of the mentor. Why did the authorities at that time not request the program as to implement clearly the rights of the nominee, if he or she has to undergo ethnic, religious or sexual orientation, does this really come across all these facts in the mass media.

It is natural to make mistakes as humans, but there should always be a remedy to minimize the unfairness. If the program makers oversighted the fact of the rights of the nominee and the protection of this fund, I hope now the authorities will make a decision to treat me fairly because I did not get the value for my funds.

I still believe in Nova Scotians. I have so many Nova Scotian friends who respect every race and religion, they respect the humanity. I expect the same with the Nominee Program makers and hope they will resolve the injustice that has happened to me and treat me fairly.

It will be a good example for the immigrants who are hoping to come to Nova Scotia in the future and raise their families. Canada is considered as the top five countries of the world, that the authorities are transparent, without corruption, the best place to raise their families, our families, that is why we selected it as our home. I appreciate the kindness of Nova Scotians. The only thing I ask from the authorities is to consider my situation sympathetically and treat me fairly. Thank you very much everybody for listening.

MADAM CHAIR: Thank you. Mr. Preyra.

MR. PREYRA: Thank you, Mr. Karunanayake. I have four very quick questions because we don't have a lot of time. When did your contract with the mentor company start?

MR. KARUNANAYAKE: It was August 1^st of last year.

MR. PREYRA: So you felt pressured within weeks of the refund program being introduced to enter into a contract in this mentorship arrangement? In other words, you got into this contract within weeks of the refund program being announced?

MR. KARUNANAYAKE: Yes.

MR. PREYRA: And you felt pressure to get into it because your time was running out, it was only 12 months?

MR. KARUNANAYAKE: Because they told us there was only about one year, a 12 month deadline and we were not told about this extension. We had been consulting the offices concerned. Actually (Inaudible) was not aware like a developed country that was very advanced and not like other countries.

MR. PREYRA: Mr. Karunanayake, you were under the impression that you had to finish it by then?

MR. KARUNANAYAKE: Yes.

MR. PREYRA: You didn't have a list of mentorship companies and you went looking and you found a broker. How much did the company pay the broker to find this mentorship?

MR. KARUNANAYAKE: Because actually since the list was not available, even I went as I said, I wanted to create a mentor through my experience in the banking sector, went to flea market and they promoted that there were a lot of opportunities and I could be an accountant and so on . . .

MR. PREYRA: But you went through a broker, did you?

MR. KARUNANAYAKE: No, I was undergoing a workshop at MISA, there one of my friends told me that we were discussing it because I think the immigrants, especially nominees under this category were always concentrated at MISA. So from there one friend said, it was best to get someone that's a friend of mine and he can match me with a mentor person.

MR. PREYRA: The mentor company essentially didn't assign you any work and you got paid for not coming in to work. When you went to the Office of Immigration and complained about that what were you told?

MR. KARUNANAYAKE: I have gone several times, unfortunately, that lady said, now once you have signed the contract there is not any possibility of doing anything. Contact this, contact this and I said, now how can we contact, because I had arguments with them. I can't understand because any contract cannot be a contract unless we know all about the person; When we were in the bank we were always entering into contracts because if we released all of our facilities through some customer without the consent, he wondered if this was an in-place contract, whether he did his duty. At the beginning he signed that consent that any obligation will be complied and so on.

MR. PREYRA: Let me ask you a more specific question, then. So you see this as a breach of contract? You went to the Office of Immigration and they then write you a letter saying that they agree with you that the contract did not comply with the policies, that there was no bona fide mentorship relationship and then tells you that you're not entitled to get any money back from it, but they're withdrawing the $50,000, they're not going pay the second installment of $50,000 and your argument is that at least that $50,000 should be given back to you, given that there was no mentorship contract and the Office of Immigration agreed to that?

MR. KARUNANAYAKE: I think not only myself actually, we are very hard of money because of our life savings. In this world any impartial person, even what do you think about it yourself now you have come to a contract with me and if you have not complied with my obligations, do you think that I'm correct?

MR. PREYRA: Thank you.

MADAM CHAIR: Mr. Porter and then Ms. Whalen.

MR. PORTER: Thank you for appearing today and just a couple of quick questions. You signed a contract, did you go to work?

MR. KARUNANAYAKE: After signing the contract I went several times.

MR. PORTER: Where did you go to work? Who was your mentor?

MR. KARUNANAYAKE: As I said, I have not mentioned the name because of the business. I have decided from the very beginning because I don't want to let them down because of this unnecessary, complicated, unethical contracts because this business is more important than - because he's not the fault of this one. The organizers should do it the proper way so I should have gotten the proper advice, proper mentorship and the business also should go on. They are small skilled businesses. If I said his name and disclosed all these particulars what will happen to his business?

MADAM CHAIR: Mr. Porter has withdrawn the question. Mr. Porter.

MR. PORTER: Thank you very much. You said that you went to this place of work, did you have a regular schedule? Were you working 30 hours a week or 40 hours a week? Was that the intent initially?

MADAM CHAIR: Ms. Perera.

MS. MAUREEN PERERA: Shall I answer? It's not work. He went there asking for work and every time he was refused to come there and refused his presence there and that's what happened.

MR. PORTER: So he would go to his assigned duty at this place of work and then they would send him home sort of thing?

MS. PERERA: He said, your presence is not needed you can stay at home.

MR. PORTER: Okay.

MR. KARUNANAYAKE: In a bank unless assigned the work by the employer to the co-worker . . .

MR. PORTER: And even though that happened did you receive any money?

MR. KARUNANAYAKE: As soon as he received the first $50,000, I received a $10,000 advance payment, that's the only thing.

MR. PORTER: So he just paid you the $10,000 and said don't bother coming back.

MS. PERERA: That was the only thing we received from him.

MR. PORTER: Thank you.

MADAM CHAIR: Ms. Whalen.

MS. WHALEN: You said you received $10,000, was your contract for $20,000 over a six-month period?

MR. KARUNANAYAKE: It was $36,000.

MS. WHALEN: So his agreement to you had been to pay you more than the minimum $20,000?

MS. PERERA: Yes.

MR. KARUNANAYAKE: It was $36,000.

MS. WHALEN: So his agreement to you had been to pay you more than the minimum $20,000.

MS. PERERA: Yes.

MS. WHALEN: Okay. I wanted to ask you when you were making a connection with this program in Sri Lanka, if you paid any brokers in Sri Lanka to help you?

MS. PERERA: Yes, $500.

MS. WHALEN: How much?

MS. PERERA: It was $500 U.S.

MS. WHALEN: And that was in addition to all the costs?

MS. PERERA: Yes, actually we paid for our tickets, the hotel reservation and everything on our own when we came for the interview.

MS. WHALEN: Yes, those were your costs as well, but we're looking for whether there were extra brokers which there were not supposed to be in the program?

MS. PERERA: Actually, Cornwallis handed over a list that clearly it says funds, not anything else, $130,500 - funds, that they received from us.

MS. WHALEN: They don't include the rest, no. Can I ask you again about the difficulty of transferring your funds from Sri Lanka to Canada? I know you were a banker and know a lot about finance.

MR. KARUNANAYAKE: Yes, actually, besides the exchange rates and so on, in a lot of Asian countries we have a lot of barriers in transferring our money - exchange regulations. Very, very difficult. Even from my records, you can see in several attempts we transmitted this money.

[11:30 a.m.]

MS. PERERA: And we gave Sri Lankan rupees in there and got Canadian dollars in here.

MS. WHALEN: So you would have lost quite a bit more beyond the exchange rates, but even just in fees or the ability to transfer the money?

MS. PERERA: Yes.

MS. WHALEN: Because I think that's significant too that that makes it difficult to bring whatever wealth you have, big or small, it's hard to bring it here. Just a final question or really more of a comment. I understand that you are caught in this web of the immigration program and the uncertainty around what's going to happen. I think we just want to be clear that we do understand that you're one of the few exceptional circumstances who have actually had your contract voided, with agreement from the Office of Immigration that it's not a true contract, and yet your funds are being withheld until there's some sort of resolution. That's something our committee may look at again, hopefully soon. We certainly hear you, I want you to know we do hear the web that you're caught in.

MR. KARUNANAYAKE: I'm afraid that I'm speaking loud and so on because actually I'm very frustrated because now we can expect these things in your country like this . . .

MS. PERERA: Actually we experienced the hospitality of Nova Scotians, we are very happy with Nova Scotians.

MR. KARUNANAYAKE: Some oversights are there just as we can't collect this one - we want to be assets to this country.

MS. PERERA: Everyone makes mistakes but there should be a remedy for that.

MADAM CHAIR: Thank you very much for being here. I'm going to exercise a little more discipline in terms of the amount of time that questions and comments are taking, if

members aren't going to exercise that discipline themselves. We have another witness waiting, Jaime Guerrero. The next person on our list is not here so remove that person. Thank you.

MR. JAIME GUERRERO: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. My name is Jaime Guerrero, I'm originally from the Philippines and like so many of the other nominees my wife and I moved to Canada for the future of our children. We felt that this country would offer them a much more promising future than the socially unstable country that we lived in.

We followed our plan and I'm happy to say that all three of our children are now here in Halifax. Our children had an advantage in coming to Canada because they were educated in the Philippines where, since World War II, English has been a medium of primary instruction. My daughter, who is 22 years old and my youngest son, who is 20 are both enrolled in Dalhousie in the computer informatics program. My eldest son, who was excluded from the program when we came in because he aged out - according to the federal rules he was not allowed - finally was able to join us after two years thanks to Elizabeth Mills at the Office of Immigration who helped us bring him in under another nomination program. So he's now here and hopefully he will also succeed in his chosen profession.

For the past 17 years before immigrating to Canada, I served as the CEO and managing director of a 200 bed tertiary hospital in the Philippines, which was recognized as one of the most progressive health care facilities in the country.

We decided to come to Nova Scotia because of the fast-track nature of the Nova Scotia Nominee Program. After coming here for the required exploratory visit - which really impressed upon us that this is a lovely place, and I think this is the place where I would like to live and have my children pursue their future.

The program was sold to us in the Phillippines by an immigration agent who was connected with Cornwallis. The agent told us that we would be able to choose from a list of mentor companies in the field of my choice and that the mentor could provide long-term employment after the end of my six-month mentorship. However, this was not the case. In fact, when I arrived I had to search for my own mentor since the limited list presented by Cornwallis at the time did not include companies in my preferred profession.

Fortunately, everything worked out because I was able to network with the filipino community that we have here and I met the owner of GEM Health Care Group, which is one of the bigger, I think, retirement and nursing facilities here, who offered me a position as Human Resource Manager for their Melville Heights facility, which is a high-end retirement home; although it was not exactly what I was really looking for, it was good. While not all my original expectations of the program were met, I gained some valuable experience during my mentorship. My mentor was extremely helpful and allowed me to use the company's

resources in order for me to gain my Canadian experience, as well as allowed me to do courses during the time of my mentorship.

I enrolled in MISA, searching for a job. I took several courses there, including the New Beginnings Course which focused on job search, resumé writing, interview skills that were appropriate to Canada. I think this is the right direction before the program was aborted. I understand from my counsellor in MISA that the Office of Immigration is already considering new nominees to come in and have MISA just arrange the mentorship somehow or provide the necessary counselling for a new immigrant to try to find himself also and understand the ins and outs of the new environment.

My experience in MISA was very good. I succeeded - I learned how to apply for jobs, I got interviewed in a couple of companies. I was targeting health care facilities. Almost immediately after my mentorship, I was accepted for a permanent, full-time position in Kentville as Utilization Manager for the Valley Regional Hospital. It was an entry- management position, but it provided me some experience from being an insider and had a great glimpse of the health care system and the challenges that it faces. I was involved in the operating room scheduling, the lineup of patients - the wait list - and I stayed in the Valley for some time but I was living alone. My wife, unfortunately, preferred to stay here in the city with our children. So living alone in the Valley and commuting on weekends had its toll on me and I left the Valley last year and joined a group from Toronto that was starting a new - well, there are offices here in Atlantic Canada, it is called the World Financial Group. I am an independent financial consultant but based in Halifax, which is just perfect for me.

So all in all, things worked out well. My mentorship was fine, even though it was not exactly similar to my previous experience and I can say that I am quite happy in my new

business. We stuck it out and Nova Scotia has grown on us. We plan to make this our permanent home. My wife now works as an associate account manager for Royal Bank across the street, on George Street. Our children are in school in Dalhousie. We're renting a house now on Atlantic Street, here in the South End, close to downtown, close to everything, schools and offices. I volunteer as a member of the building committee for the St. Thomas Aquinas-Canadian Martyrs Parish.

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