HANSARD

Printed and Published by Nova Scotia Hansard Reporting Services

Ms. Maureen MacDonald (Chair)

Mr. Chuck Porter (Vice-Chairman)

Mr. Keith Colwell

In Attendance:

Ms. Rhonda Neatt

Legislative Committee Clerk

HALIFAX, TUESDAY, APRIL 24, 2007

SUBCOMMITTEE ON PUBLIC ACCOUNTS

1:00 P.M.

CHAIR

Ms. Maureen MacDonald

MADAM CHAIR: I will call the subcommittee to order. The agenda is largely to deal with two items. We need to talk about how late in the season the Public Accounts Committee will meet, and we need to approve the scheduling of additional witnesses.

In addition to that, I just wanted to talk a bit about the report from the Public Accounts Committee, and if members have any business we can certainly add that to the agenda. That's really what I wanted to get done here today, if we can. Agreed?

First of all, we have only one item currently scheduled. I was just starting to explain that we have the Finance Department coming on May 2^nd and, of course, tomorrow we have the Department of Transportation and Public Works and OED.

We had had the petroleum products pricing folks - they had been scheduled, or Mora was trying to schedule them and they had been put off until the report was done. The report is done, that's being announced some time this week as far as I know, so we'll be able to bring them forward. We had postponed Community Services and the Liquor Corporation - they were both scheduled and they got bumped by the Commonwealth Games. So those three items are there.

In addition to that, we have had a request from the Auditor General for the following things - he has requested that he be able to do briefing sessions on three chapters of the report that came out in December . . .

MS. RHONDA NEATT ( Legislative Committee Clerk): One briefing session, he said, would do it.

MADAM CHAIR: One briefing session on these three chapters, and then that we would meet in camera prior to his June report, or around the time of his June report, and also then have a public meeting on his June report.

He also indicated that if we could, he would like to meet with us about his strategic plan, but he indicated to me that he didn't think he needed a two-hour meeting, that it probably could be a one-hour meeting and we might want to do just a special one-hour meeting.

The other thing - which I don't have here in front of me and that the clerk may have - we received a letter from Diana Whalen who chairs the Economic Development Committee, and as the chair of that committee she wrote me requesting that we bring the hospital association, the Nova Scotia Association of Health Organizations I think they're called, in front of us to discuss the pension fund. If you will remember, there were . . .

MR. KEITH COLWELL: Some irregularities.

MADAM CHAIR: Yes, around the use of the surplus - not them, the Superintendent of Pensions is being requested, that the committee bring before us the Superintendent of Pensions. So if you just make a little note of that.

First of all, can we just talk and set a date? When I look at the calendar, this committee generally doesn't meet in July or August. We could meet until the 27^th of June or we could meet until the 20^th of June, whatever you would like to do - or we could stop at the 13^th of June. Let's see, if we don't count the 2^nd of May, because that is now booked, the 9^th, 16^th, 23^rd and 30^th, that's four Wednesdays, and the 6^th and 13^th would be six Wednesdays if we went until the 13^th, and seven Wednesdays if we go until the 20^th and eight Wednesdays if we went until the end - so what's your preference on that?

MR. COLWELL: I think after we've been in the Legislature and all the stuff we went through there, it would be nice if we stopped on June 13^th because it looks like we've cleaned everything up that we have on our list here - yes, I think we could pretty well clean everything up by June 13^th.

MR. CHUCK PORTER: The 25^th of April is a great date, I think, but . . .

MR. COLWELL: That would be good.(Laughter)

MR. PORTER: . . .certainly the earliest part of June will be better, given that it's probably going to be hard to get people in committee, given that others are also ending but,

yes, June 13^th will be all right with us - and if we could do it even the week before, if we are able to accommodate everybody who is currently on our list, that would be fine, too, with me.

MADAM CHAIR: Okay. I would agree with that, so let's say that we will meet no later than June 13^th and that gives our clerk some flexibility around scheduling. She knows that she is not going to be asking people for after that and what have you - so that's the first thing we will do.

Can we look at the items that we have in front of us for scheduling? This is what I would say - if we can agree that we will try to accommodate all of these items using common sense, within reason - it may not be possible - that we give the clerk some flexibility, it would be really good to have an in camera meeting with the Auditor General around his June report, as well as a public meeting around his June report. We might take the strategic plan and consider whether we can do a one hour - something separate from our normal schedule if that's possible.

MR. COLWELL: I don't see any problem with that.

MADAM CHAIR: That means we would be able, I think, to have the in camera briefing. That's one, two, three, four, five, six and possibly the Superintendent of Pensions, seven - or that may be held over until the Fall, it's not an issue that is going away any time soon.

MR. COLWELL: That could be held until the Fall.

MADAM CHAIR: Yes. Okay?

MR. PORTER: Let me just do my math. You have two there, three, four, five, six, seven already scheduled there - two meetings with the Auditor General . . .

MADAM CHAIR: Right.

MR. PORTER: . . . the three below.

MR. COLWELL: That would be a special one, though, right? There are two meetings with the Auditor General . . .

MR. PORTER: That would be a regular Wednesday wouldn't it?

MADAM CHAIR: Okay, a briefing session in camera with those first three topics - that's one. Two meetings, so two - one in camera and one public - on the June report. So that's three. Then we have these three to be rescheduled, the Nova Scotia Liquor

Corporation, Community Services, and Service Nova Scotia and Municipal Relations, that's six. We essentially have said there are six days left, right, if we go until June 13^th?

MR. PORTER: You didn't count tomorrow or May 2^nd?

MADAM CHAIR: No, I didn't count tomorrow or May 2^nd.

MR. PORTER: Very good.

MADAM CHAIR: And perhaps we can talk to the Auditor General about a one-hour strategic plan briefing in there someplace that is not a regular Wednesday, a special, one hour maybe early some morning we could come. I don't know what days your caucuses meet, but if you are in town anyway.

MR. PORTER: Tuesdays are good, like this particular Tuesday, today, when we are in for HR, for example. When is it, May 29^th, Keith, we are back for Human Resources?

MR. COLWELL: I think it is May 29^th.

MR. PORTER: Why couldn't we meet in the afternoon for an hour just because we are here and generally staying for Public Accounts the following day, et cetera. Personally, that would be good for me. I know you guys are both a little closer than I am, but working that out maybe we could shoot for May 30^th.

[1:30 p.m.]

MADAM CHAIR: That would work for me as well. Okay, then we will leave that with the clerk.

MR. COLWELL: The same day as the Human Resources Committee.

MR. PORTER: I'm just thinking back. I think it is May 29^th, that Tuesday.

MR. COLWELL: I think it is, yes.

MR. PORTER: So we will just set it for that day then, if we can.

MS. NEATT: So an afternoon meeting that day?

MADAM CHAIR: That would be great. Okay, so that is fine then. We have our schedule, we have . . .

MR. COLWELL: Actually, we could set that for 11:00 a.m., right after the Human Resources Committee.

MADAM CHAIR: Go from one right into the other?

MR. PORTER: Let's just finish it then. That's fine, too.

MADAM CHAIR: Excuse me, is that possible to do?

MS. NEATT: Well, there would have to be a little bit of a break.

MADAM CHAIR: A 10- minute break?

MR. PORTER: We will only be an hour anyway.

MR. COLWELL: There can be 10 minutes anyway in between.

MADAM CHAIR: Okay, then we will look for that. Perfect.

MS. NEATT: Say 11:15 a.m.

MADAM CHAIR: Okay, so those things are all done. That's excellent.

The other thing is this report that is still hanging over our heads. Mora had circulated a draft and I was looking to get feedback on the draft. I had a couple of very minor changes that were more editorial than anything else, editorial changes, but I haven't received anything back from any of the caucuses and I really wanted to do that. I'm thinking maybe I could make another attempt at getting that done and setting a time frame to have that done. When do you think you could give me any . . .

MR. PORTER: I have my changes, I had them with me, but I don't have them with me today, there were just a couple of little things in there that I wanted to pick on and a couple of them were just grammar, and there was just a word or two that I was looking to have changed and for some discussion. I wish I had it in front of me today, I don't, but we could say maybe for 8:45 a.m. next Wednesday morning when we come back . . .

MADAM CHAIR: Okay, May 2^nd ?

MR. PORTER: Just prior to or just after for a few minutes to resolve that and be done with it - I would just as soon we are moving ahead or we're not, or whatever it is we're doing, let's finalize it and do whatever it is you're going do with it.

MR. COLWELL: Why don't we start at 8:30 a.m.?

MR. PORTER: That's fine, whatever, yes.

MADAM CHAIR: Perfect, 8:30 a.m., May 2^nd.

MR. COLWELL: We haven't had a chance to do it in detail because we've been so busy with the House . . .

MADAM CHAIR: Yes, I know, it's the House and your leadership and all of these things are happening.

MR. COLWELL: I'll make sure we have a look at it and if there are any changes - and probably we should send the changes to the chair first?

MADAM CHAIR: Yes.

MR. COLWELL: So she can have it rewritten with those in and show where the changes are?

MADAM CHAIR: Yes, I can do that.

MR. PORTER: Yes, that's fine, we'll just forward you a copy of that, then.

MR. COLWELL: And that way we might just be able to have a look at it and say, yes, it's okay.

MADAM CHAIR: Excellent, that would be great.

MS. NEATT: An official subcommittee meeting at 8:30 a.m.?

MADAM CHAIR: Yes, 8:30 a.m. on May 2^nd.

MR. COLWELL: The only problem with May 2^nd is I'm not going to be here.

MR. PORTER: Somebody will be in your place, and you'll have to give instruction, if any.

MR. COLWELL: Yes, we'll have someone else here.

MADAM CHAIR: Can you do that?

MR. COLWELL: I think we can, yes. The leadership will be over, and hopefully everything will be back to normal by then.

MADAM CHAIR: Whatever normal is.

MR. COLWELL: I'll just say tentative on that, because I want to make sure I can get somebody there.

MADAM CHAIR: Okay, yes. We'll leave it at 8:30 a.m., you can let us know tomorrow or whenever . . .

MR. COLWELL: I'll let you know this afternoon.

MADAM CHAIR: Okay, great. I think that is pretty much it. I did write - the royal "we", Rhonda wrote and I signed it - there was a motion passed at the meeting on the 21^st that we ask the Department of Transportation and Public Works to provide any additional documents that hadn't been provided in the package for tomorrow. So this went out on the 24^th and we haven't received anything, including we haven't received a sworn statement or declaration that all documents have been received.

I asked the clerk last week if we had received anything, and I asked her to contact the deputy's office because we hadn't received any response to this letter. She spoke with - well, I'll let her say what happened.

MS. NEATT: I called the deputy minister's office and he wasn't in, so I spoke with his assistant and she said she didn't think there was anything and that she would talk to him - he was due in the next day - and double-check with him, and I haven't heard anything back.

MADAM CHAIR: I really wanted to impress on them that we didn't want it arriving tomorrow, that we wanted documents in advance. I just want to let you know about this, that we haven't received anything and we haven't heard back at all - we haven't had an acknowledgement of the letter, in fact.

MR. COLWELL: Perhaps it might be in order tomorrow before the meeting gets underway to bring this up and just restate it on the record what has transpired, just to make sure. I think it is important that this is answered. Even if they would have sent you a note saying we have nothing else, that would have been it.

MADAM CHAIR: Yes. I will speak to the witnesses when they arrive, first of all, before we go into session, but certainly depending on what transpires.

Any other business?

MR. PORTER: Madam Chair, I would request that our clerk send us an e-mail maybe just with the dates and who's coming once they're set up, of all the people - we made so

many changes - just how far we're going into June, the list proposed to bring in and that would work very well.

MADAM CHAIR: Excellent.

Okay, we stand adjourned.

[The committee adjourned at 1:36 p.m.]