HANSARD

and

Printed and Published by Nova Scotia Hansard Reporting Services

STANDING COMMITTEE ON HUMAN RESOURCES

Mr. David Wilson, Glace Bay (Chairman)

Hon. David Morse

Hon. Christopher d'Entremont

Mr. Chuck Porter

Mr. Charles Parker

Ms. Joan Massey

Mr. Percy Paris

Mr. Michel Samson

Ms. Diana Whalen

[Mr. David Wilson, Glace Bay, was replaced by Mr. Leo Glavine.]

[Mr. Michel Samson was replaced by Mr. Harold Theriault.]

In Attendance:

Mrs. Darlene Henry

Legislative Committee Clerk

Mr. Gordon Hebb

Legislative Counsel

WITNESS

Nova Scotia Federation of Home and School Associations

Ms. Janet Walsh

President

HALIFAX, TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 26, 2008

STANDING COMMITTEE ON HUMAN RESOURCES

9:00 A.M.

CHAIRMAN

Mr. David Wilson, Glace Bay

MR. CHUCK PORTER (Chairman): Let's call the meeting to order, ladies and gentlemen. It's already after 9:00 a.m. and we have a busy day. So we'll welcome Ms. Walsh as well and we'll get to you in just a few minutes. We've got a couple of things to do and we'll start with introductions.

[The committee members introduced themselves.]

MR. CHAIRMAN: First on the agenda is the ABCs and we'll get right to it, with the Department of Agriculture, if I could have somebody start this off.

HON. CHRISTOPHER D'ENTREMONT: I so move to the Farm Loan Board, Angela Hunter and Victor Moses.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Any questions? Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.

The motion is carried.

The Department of Economic Development. Mr. Morse.

HON. DAVID MORSE: I so move James Gogan and Bonita Kirby to be members of the Film Development Corporation Board.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Any questions? Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.

The motion is carried.

Trade Centre Limited. Mr. d'Entremont.

MR. D'ENTREMONT: For the Trade Centre Limited, I so move Gordon Gillis and George Moody.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Any discussion? Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.

The motion is carried.

The Department of Education. Mr. Morse.

MR. MORSE: Mr. Chairman, I would be pleased to move Robert B. Cameron and R. Larry Hood to be members of the Saint Mary's University Board of Governors.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Any discussion? Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.

The motion is carried.

The Department of Environment and Labour. Mr. d'Entremont.

MR. D'ENTREMONT: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'd like to move the nomination for the Resource Recovery Fund Board, Christine Penney.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Any discussion? Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.

The motion is carried.

MR. D'ENTREMONT: Mr. Chairman, if I might, I need to excuse myself for the next one.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Absolutely, thank you, Mr. d'Entremont.

The Department of Health, Health Authority Districts. Mr. Morse.

MR. MORSE: Mr. Chairman, I so move that Dr. Gerald A. Klassen be a member of the Annapolis Valley District Health Authority.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Any discussion? Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.

The motion is carried.

Health Promotion and Protection. Mr. Parker.

MR. CHARLES PARKER: Mr. Chairman, I would be pleased to move the members of the Nova Scotia Boxing Authority, Alison Arsenault and Tom Davis.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Any discussion? Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.

The motion is carried.

Department of Justice. Mr. Morse.

MR. MORSE: Mr. Chairman, I would like to move Roderick MacDonald to be a member of the RCMP Advisory Board.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Any discussion? Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.

The motion is carried.

And last but not least, the Treasury and Policy Board. Mr. d'Entremont.

MR. D'ENTREMONT: Mr. Chairman, for this last one, the Voluntary Planning Board, I'd like to move the nomination of Gracey Southwell.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Any discussion? Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.

The motion is carried. Thank you very much.

That will do it for that part so we will welcome this morning, from the Nova Scotia Federation of Home and School Associations, Ms. Janet Walsh. Welcome and just before we get to you, Ms. Whalen, if you'd like to say good morning that would be fine for the record.

MS. DIANA WHALEN: Yes, thank you very much and I apologize for being late this morning.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Don't worry, we've had a few people in that situation this morning. We'll go right to you, Ms. Walsh, for your presentation and we look forward to hearing what you have to say.

MS. JANET WALSH: Thank you for the invitation this morning. My name is Janet Walsh and I have been involved with the home and school movement for about 13 years. That was when my first child entered the public school system. I have been involved with the Nova Scotia Federation of Home and School Associations since 2002 and the president since 2004. I'm also involved with the Canadian Home and School Federation and I'm on the executive board there.

The purpose of this presentation this morning is to provide an overview of our federation - it is quite a long name so we generally refer to ourselves as "the Fed" because it is quite a long name for us - and to provide an update on current activities.

What is the NSFHSA? It is the provincially-recognized voice of parents in education. Many years ago that's what one of the ministers of the day said and they carried that through.

Our mission statement: the NSFHSA is the provincial voice of parents, promotes excellence in public education and promotes the well-being of children and youth. The well-being can often be related to health, such as nutrition, physical activity, economics - and that would be in relation to school fees - social well-being, and safety, whether it's on the playground or using the Internet.

A little bit of history. We were established in 1936, so we're 73 years old and we are an independent, volunteer, not-for-profit provincial organization. There are many members. It is mainly the local home and school associations, sometimes in conjunction with the school advisory councils or school advisory council who are members. Through each of these locals it's quite often parents, teachers, school administrators, students, and community members.

Research has shown that when parents are involved in the school and they're involved with children's education and they work together with school staff, many good things happen. A researcher by the name of Karen Mapp, who is a leading education researcher, has reported that no matter what the demographics, students are more likely to achieve higher grades and test scores, attend school regularly, have better social skills, graduate and go on to post-secondary education when schools and families work together.

The objective of our organization is to promote the welfare of children, whether that be in the home, school or community. We foster co-operation between parents and teachers, and that's during and after school. Quite often parents will help out with coaches, chaperone school trips, be involved with the bands, any after-school activities.

We ensure that each child receives the best education possible, and that's regardless of physical, mental or social needs, and that it's within a safe and peaceful environment. Sometimes that can be quite challenging today, for safe environments. Another objective is to promote parents' understanding of the education system and for many parents they have no idea what goes on inside the school doors.

[9:15 a.m.]

One of the big roles that we play is to assist parents to help understand what happens in the school. For many parents, depending on what their history was when they were a student, they're very intimidated to go into a school. The relationship with parents and teachers is quite different today than what it was probably when we were students and our parents probably got the report card and they might have gone that evening. We do this through guest speakers at our conferences and they would be speakers such as from healthy schools, school insurance programs and they would speak of high-risk activities - field trips and skiing trips. Some parents just don't know how to navigate the system, they just don't know where to start, so we can certainly assist them in that respect.

We foster high ideals of citizenship and patriotism, we promote international goodwill and peace. The hope is when students see parents volunteering it will set the stage for them to volunteer as they become adults. As anyone in volunteering knows, the volunteers are just decreasing, it's very hard to get volunteers for a number of reasons.

We increase public awareness of issues in education and that's through communication, certainly with technology, e-mail is one of the easiest and most timely ways. We do send out regular newsletters. We confer and co-operate with other like-minded organizations, and a number of those we confer with regularly. It could be: Peaceful Schools International; Addiction Services; Canadian Association for Health, Physical Education, Recreation and Dance; the Ecology Action Centre; Sylvan Learning Centers - they quite often give a very good presentation on homework skills for parents; Media Awareness Network; and the Nova Scotia Safety Council are just a few of them.

The idea of home and school has been around for a number of years. Actually, back in 1885, Mabel Bell, Alexander Graham Bell's wife, in Baddeck was interested in the home and school and what happened in the schools - both Mr. and Mrs. Bell. Weekly, mothers would gather at the schoolhouse to discuss matters concerning children. Here we are more than 100 years later and we're still doing the same thing and when we looked back through some of the old minutes from meetings, it's the same sort of issues they're talking about: lack of equipment, lack of resources - they didn't call it resources then, but the teachers didn't have the tools that they needed to do their jobs. The teachers soon joined in to be part of this discussion and they spoke of their educational needs and concerns - that's probably where the seeds of fundraising by the parents started.

The home and school movement is certainly international; it's across Canada and throughout the world. In 1927, the Canadian National Federation of Home and School Associations was developed and in May 2005, the Canadian Home and School Federation received national historic designation and that took place in Baddeck. It was a very moving moment because we were back where it all happened, so it was quite exciting.

Instrumental to the home and school movement in Nova Scotia was a man by the name of Loran DeWolfe, and he was a leading educator and educational reformer. His goal was to increase the parent/teacher influences at the grassroots level. He advocated for provincial and national associations, and they could offer assistance and support to local parent volunteer groups in the school - that's our goal and what we aim to do.

We are represented on a number of committees. We are part of the provincial education partners and that includes the Department of Education, Nova Scotia School Boards, Nova Scotia Teachers Union, Association of Nova Scotia Education Administrators and FPANE, which is - excuse my French, it's the French association of Nova Scotia. We are also part of the Provincial Education Week Committee. Education Week is celebrated for a week in April, where there is a theme each year and this year's theme is to do with peace, and teachers from across the province are recognized as well as the partners having a nominee.

We are also involved with the Special Education Program and Services and that committee is to support the Department of Education, ensuring that the needs of students with special needs are represented. Some of the groups included in that committee are the Learning Disability Association of Nova Scotia and the Autism Society.

This year, we have also been part of the Prime Minister's Awards for Teaching Excellence. We are also involved with the Breakfast for Learning, Teacher/Staff Appreciation Week - that was just two weeks ago. We're also involved with the Framework for Action, the Youth Sexual Health in Nova Scotia which was released in 2006, and we are represented on two committees - one with regard to community awareness and support, and the education committee.

We often sit on many ad hoc committees - Food and Nutrition Policy was one a couple of years ago, that was a big one, and from that came the Policy for Food and Nutrition in the schools in Nova Scotia. From that was the fundraising portion, because certainly that policy impacted on fundraising in schools. Recently, we have just formed a committee along with the other education partners with regard to school boards and the importance of school boards, in light of the elections that are coming up and to get good candidates to run for the school board as well as to get the public out to vote. Generally, it's not a very high rate of voters.

One of our big roles is advocacy and issues that we advocate for are determined by the resolutions adopted at our annual general meetings. This past year a couple of them were: idle-free school zones, electronic equipment in schools, school ground supervision at lunch, school bus seat restraints for children less than 40 pounds, tuition support and vocational training.

Other issues and concerns as they arise from our member associations are what the issues of the day may be with regard to education. They may come from a particular school or area, and it might be related to fundraising and what may be good choices and what are the risks involved and are they allowed to do it. One of the recent ones was with the Halifax Regional School Board just last week with regard to not having the fees for lunch, so we spoke to that. We're also involved with public submissions and the last couple recently have been the external credentialing, busing students and special education review.

Some of our current projects - Drug Wise Parents and Parenting the Net Generation are two that have come from the Canadian Home and School Federation, but they very much rely on their provincial affiliates to carry these out. Drug Wise Parents is an information resource for parents, and that is in conjunction with Health Canada, and Parenting the Net Generation is a Web site presentation that walks parents through the use of the Internet - the good and the bad. For many parents the students know a whole lot more about it than the parents do. This program is with Media Awareness Network.

We're also doing a provincial survey of parent volunteers. Not all home and schools in Nova Scotia are members of our association; however, we probably get more calls and more inquiries from schools that are not members than the ones that are, because they are the ones that are looking for the guidance. The hope is that people who are members, they have been around for a while, so certainly some of that information they are aware of. We're also involved with the Provincial Bus Safety Week. Last year was our first year with that and we are going to continue to work with the Nova Scotia Safety Council.

Our accomplishments - we're recognized as a valued partner in education. The Department of Education and the minister of the day - no matter who it has been over the number of years - have always valued the parent representation. The Nova Scotia School Boards Association and the Nova Scotia Teachers Union also value our input as parents, because they get a real flavour of the parent perspective province-wide.

Just recently, we have been asked to be part of an editorial advisory committee for a short magazine - probably about 35 or 36 pages in the last edition - to be on the advisory council. They are looking at the provincial parent groups from across Canada to comprise this advisory committee.

We provide professional development to our board members and our members with media awareness, on-line courses, and through our annual general meetings with workshops, panel discussions, guest speakers. The longevity - we've been around for quite a long time and parents are never going to go away.

We promote awareness of educational issues and again, that's though our workshops, panel discussions at our AGMs, and some of them have been with regard to commercialism in schools, and the role of home and schools and parents. Parents look to us for support and information, whether it's about the O2 schools and parents as career coaches, fundraising activities - some are considered more high-risk than others - and if they should do those.

I don't always know the answer or our board members don't always know the answer, but we generally know who it is to contact when we don't know. For many parents, if they're calling from small communities, they just don't know how to navigate the system and who to turn to.

Some of our issues - we always like to increase membership, we always want more. I think anybody with any group would like to have more - the more representation you have, I think the better able you are to speak with people. However, we do have schools from all school board areas across the province. To be accessible and available, and that - we are all volunteers. We are the only province that currently doesn't have a paid staff member. Most of them have office assist - some of them are called executive directors or office administrators. We solely are run by volunteers; we don't have the funds to support a staff person, so we wear a number of hats.

I guess along with that comes the sustainability and we are incorporated with the Registry of Joint Stock Companies the last three years and we just about have our application completed now for a registered charity application, because oftentimes you can apply for grants and that's one of the first things they ask - are you a registered charity? So we've been working on this for a couple of months now and hopefully we would be able to get enough monies to support projects and have somebody there.

We do have a 1-800 number, so I generally call in from home. We do have an office in Halifax. That would be - which comes first? If we had the staff person, I think we would be much more accessible and available. For a short time we did have somebody through an HRDC grant and that year it was wonderful. There was somebody there - like the commercial, nobody likes to call anybody and get a voice mail, you always want to speak to somebody, so that was really good. If that was the only thing, that there was somebody there to answer the phone during the business hours, that was wonderful.

[9:30 a.m.]

We're also looking at applying to put in for a summer student. So that's my job for the next two days, because I have to get that done by the 29^th. We are a member of the Canadian Home and School Federation and also a member of Volunteer Canada. Any questions?

MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Ms. Walsh, for that very informative and great presentation. We do have some questions.

Just before we go there, I want to remind members, as you see, there is a new microphone system in place. The same rule exists; don't play with them, they're already pre-set, Mr. Parker (Laughter) And wait for the red light to come on, as you'll see, both Ms. Walsh's and mine have been left on. Once it comes on, the same as the House. So we'll start with Mr. Glavine.

MR. LEO GLAVINE: Well, Principal Porter has spoken to us this morning. Thank you very much, Janet, for your presentation. I am certainly very familiar, as an educator, with the home and school association and the role that you have played provincially and continue to play.

You spoke about membership and volunteerism; both challenging areas. I know your membership has gone down over the past year or so, I believe. I'm just wondering if you could put a little bit of a perspective on that, as to why a valued organization has lost some membership, and therefore probably connecting with volunteers to support the organization throughout the schools of Nova Scotia is also impacted by that.

MS. WALSH: We do a mail-out to all the schools three times a year. I've heard some parents say they never, ever receive information so where it goes missing, from the time it arrives at the school if it gets there, who knows. I have heard some school secretaries say they've been instructed by the principal if they see our return address, oh, that's a parent's - put that in the garbage. That just amazes me, because I think we can work so well with teachers and certainly schools that are members. Sometimes it comes down to - most parents or many of the parent groups now, they see their sole function as fundraising and trying to get the message out there of what - we do more than fundraising. That's not even one of our objectives - we may support but we never say support financially, because there are other ways to support.

I think it's because that's just not on their radar at the time until something happens or there's some issue that they really need advice on or seeking very particular information. Now this year a couple of members have said - previous members - you know, we just need that money for fundraising, and that's sometimes best where their monies go. But it's no doubt a challenge.

MR. GLAVINE: I understand probably that you've lost membership by as high as 25 per cent. If that is the case, then I see that as a very strong, immediate need that your association would have in order to keep some vibrancy, if you wish, in the larger organization. I'm just wondering if you have a little bit of a plan or strategy, let's say, in the 2008-09 school year to try to have a little revitalization going on.

MS. WALSH: Actually, from our last board meeting, one of our board members has taken that on as recruiting - that's a committee - and we're just waiting for feedback on a recruiting plan and some of the ideas that we have. Unfortunately, we don't have a lot of money, so sometimes it's hard for us to travel to these schools. The hope is to cluster these areas and do the presentations just to get the word out there of who we are and what we do.

MR. GLAVINE: Just to move that in a little different direction, you've been involved with a whole number of the key areas and issues involving education. I was just wondering, from your perspective and your association's, if you are looking at a disturbing trend that your organization would like to be a part of solution-driven ideas and actions taken in schools. Have you identified one or two trends that are disturbing and are counterproductive to good education? I'm just wondering what you've targeted, if you wish, to work on.

MS. WALSH: Two of them have been at Media Awareness Network, the use of computers, education for parents and the same with the Drug Wise Parents, to get that information out there to the parents so that they can recognize something that may be amiss with their child, something that they can look for whether it be related to violence, for example. Many parents have heard of Facebook, many of them are not on it, they're not always aware of what transpires in it. If we can try to educate parents about those sorts of things - and that's certainly in some of the Parenting the Net Generation workshops.

MR. GLAVINE: I feel home and school should be a stronger organization, because it can identify with each individual school. We know that school boards have gotten considerably larger and I think that has been a little bit of a part of the difficulties facing school boards - identification with a much larger geographic area and the role of school boards and school board members. I see home and school as holding onto and promoting the pulse and so on of the local school. I am intrigued by how you can reinvent yourselves and be a stronger force for the kind of direction that our schools need to be taking. As a lifelong educator and now, as a critic, I see some of the very positive things being done, but I also see some disturbing things that are happening.

I'm just wondering about one of the areas - I don't have a lot of time - I see perhaps one of the greatest weaknesses currently is the inadequacy of how our children of special needs are being met in the school system. We're now talking about 15 to 25 per cent of our children identified, assessed as having some area of special need. I'm just wondering if the home and school share that view and opinion and how you may be working to counter that.

MS. WALSH: We are part of the SEPS Committee, with the public submission on special needs. Sometimes we feel almost helpless of what we can do, because if we only had the answers. We admit that we are not the experts in many of these areas so all we can do is in our dialogue with the Department of Education, with the Teachers Union, because they're a whole lot more powerful than we are, meet with them on some of those issues and discuss them, especially at education partners meetings - they have them quarterly and that's where a lot of these things are discussed.

Anything that we can do, if it's the dissemination of information to the parents to get it out there, send it to the home and schools, but again it's trying to get it into the hands of those parents and that's certainly a challenge.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Glavine. Mr. Paris.

MR. PERCY PARIS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Nice to hear you again, it has been less than a week so we're on a bit of a roll here. My first question, Ms. Walsh, is I'm interested if you could elaborate a little bit more on that interaction that you have with school boards and with the Department of Education. Is that interaction before decisions are made, during the process of the decision making, or do they ask for your input after the fact?

MS. WALSH: Quite often it's before. The education partners meeting is where all of the school boards and the Department of Education, the minister and the deputy are there, and sometimes we don't know what's happening until it hits, and certainly if we can be proactive and anticipate what we can work on together. It was identified at an education partners meeting that the school board elections are coming up in October and that we really need to get the whole province involved, just not for school boards to get the message out that they're looking for people, but for the parents, what we can do. We've had one meeting thus far just to kind of flesh out some ideas and we are meeting again next week. We're looking at some sort of social marketing campaign whether it's public service announcements, to get the word out there, to look for good candidates.

MR. PARIS: Can I interpret that in part that one of the things you'll be fleshing out is ways maybe to enhance those particular relationships and other relationships, because you mentioned about potentially those people who may run and encouraging good candidates to run, so you're talking about that public relationship, but also in the political arena as well? Which I guess leads to a second question I have. I'm curious, more so as an MLA, what steps has your organization taken or maybe has planned in the future to increase or improve the relationships or communication with MLAs around the province, if anything?

MS. WALSH: That could certainly be another project for us. Because we don't have somebody with us, a staff person, to kind of work on some of these things, a lot of good ideas that we have we would like to get out there more, but I work - this is volunteer for me. I work as a nurse, that's my job in real life, so it's very difficult and we're all in that position. All

of our current board members work, so we don't have a lot of time and that was one of the big things. When we did have somebody with us for a year, they communicated, they got out there, there were letter-writing campaigns, and sometimes we just don't have the manpower to do that.

MR. PARIS: If I may make a suggestion somewhat boldly, it would be, I think maybe there might be a strategy on the part of the school boards association that maybe at the various meetings in the various jurisdictions, all it would take would be one phone call to the representative in that particular jurisdiction, to invite him or her to your meetings on a consistent, regular basis.

MS. WALSH: When we do have our annual general meeting, we usually try to go around the province and the school board in that area is certainly invited. We have gone to some school board meetings - and some areas have quite a few people come to their school board meetings - and we do presentations. Again, because we don't have somebody who that is their job, it makes it a little bit difficult.

MR. PARIS: And I wasn't talking about it in the general context, I was being more specific with respect to the elected representatives - the MLAs.

MS. WALSH: Oh, okay.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Paris. Mr. d'Entremont.

MR. D'ENTREMONT: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Two questions, one very simple one and the other a little more thought-provoking. Out of the French school boards, are there a number of those - are they a part of your association?

MS. WALSH: We have one in Arichat, but most of them are involved with the Fédération des Parents Acadiens de la Nouvelle-Écosse. But we do have one and certainly the Drug Wise Parents, it's a resource binder, we do have French copies, so they will be sent to all the French schools whether they're members or not. We don't ignore schools that are not members. We certainly try to include them as much as we can, but there's just one. The surveys I sent out went to all the schools and I know yesterday when I picked up the mail, there was one there from École Beaubassin.

[9:45 a.m.]

MR. D'ENTREMONT: It's a good move forward then, doubling the representation.

MS. WALSH: It's slow. Probably the main reason we hear from parents, because one of the questions on it is are you involved in your local home and school and how much - it's

time, people don't have time. I think as the surveys have come in, that's the common thread - people don't have time - but I guess it's how you choose to spend your time.

MR. D'ENTREMONT: That leads me to sort of the second comment and question is that my wife happens to be the president of the local home and school for École Belleville which is in my community. I know that she doesn't have time, yet she makes it and somehow she finds time to be at the school and help with the breakfast program, help with the fluoride program, do fundraising when they have it, organize the after-school program that thankfully we're going to get.

The biggest challenge, I think, she finds and the frustrating part that she finds is engaging other parents to pay attention to their students' work and what happens in the school. We sort of asked them in a bunch of different ways, but how do we as communities get parents to pay more attention to their child's school? There are those who take it to the extreme, those who are in the middle and there are a lot that as soon as that kid gets on the bus, I don't have to worry about him and when he gets back then I worry about him again and what happens at that school is not important. So how do we get communities more involved and parents more involved?

MS. WALSH: I think even when we have focus groups, we always feel like we're preaching to the converted . . .

MR. D'ENTREMONT: Because they're the ones who come out.

MS. WALSH: They're the ones who come out and it's funny, it was with one of the provincial working groups for the Youth Sexual Health Framework and we were talking about focus groups and we said the very people that you'd really like to see at these focus groups are not the people who come out. I think that's a challenge - whether it's education, health care, no matter what the issue is. Unless it's a really burning issue at the school, like the school was going to close . . .

MR. D'ENTREMONT: Then they're there.

MS. WALSH: . . . they're there. If it's something really, really big, people will come out. The sense that we get from many parents is that they're not the experts when it comes to education but we tell them, you are your child's first teacher and who knows your child better than you. So we're trying to get that message out there in our newsletters, and when we have focus groups - our home and schools throughout the province, we'll sometimes target them and ask them, who would be parents to be involved in focus groups?

We did a focus group with a research project with a professor from Memorial University a couple of years ago, looking for focus groups. It was a real challenge, because we wanted to get parents who generally are not the parents who come out. We did get some,

but even those parents feel very intimidated because many of the parents who are there know the education lingo, are somewhat familiar with what outcomes are, so even parents feel intimidated by other parents. I was trying to be inclusive and I would say, don't use those words, don't use the acronyms, spell it all out, to try to get these parents out there.

I think no matter what the issue is or in what jurisdiction or in what department, it's the same thing. It is very difficult to get the key people that we want. We really had to go out and target them and give them like one-on-one, whether it's a phone call to invite them or a personalized invitation, to come to a focus group or to come out to a meeting, unless it's some big issue.

MR. D'ENTREMONT: I think that's what Anne finds, too, is there are a few of the star programs that seem to have parents - the breakfast program has done very well. As a matter of fact, the first iteration of the breakfast program was quite the thing, there was an awful lot of - I mean, they're eating better breakfasts there than they would at the Stone Street Café over here at the Delta, it was a phenomenal time. But they actually backed it off and they spread out what they were able to do. Now they're providing that breakfast program five days a week in the school, which is phenomenal, and she's got the volunteers for that.

The fluoride program, a little less, but Friday mornings they seem to be able to get it out. The after-school program, people seem to be interested in finding some other opportunities for their children after school. The fundraising thing, forget it, it's hard to get people out to fund raise when you really don't have anything real specific - you need it for a program, you need it for some travel, it's very difficult. But anyway, she does find it's easier to target, find the parents in each class that she can call upon and target them, rather than just putting a broader invitation out to come and help.

MS. WALSH: I know when I was the president of a local home and school, we might get 15 or 20 people to a meeting, and I'm thinking, all the parents in the school . . .

MR. D'ENTREMONT: That's pretty good. (Laughter)

MS. WALSH: But there should be more, but we're doing pretty good. Some people, oh committees, like why do you want to go to a meeting? But when it came down to the crunch, whether it would be a Spring fair or a welcome back barbeque, it was very - to ask someone to volunteer, people are not going to put their hand up and jump up and say, oh yes, I'll go to that, because they don't know what they're getting into, they don't know what the time commitment is. But when we got it chunked out - you can scoop ice cream for an hour, barbeque hot dogs for an hour, do a fish pond for an hour - we had all kinds of people. I guess at the end of the day, that's when it really counts.

But you're trying, you know - if people come out to the meetings, if the rest of the parents feel that this group of parents are doing things well and are supporting the school and the parents come out then to do the actual work - the doers - I think that's probably what's most important. You could have a whole roomful of people saying, you know, it would be really good to have this at the school reading program. You might get 100 people there, but if you have one parent to volunteer at the end, you haven't made much progress, but if 100 parents will say they'll come out for an hour one afternoon a week, that's where it counts. But it's challenging, no doubt.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Ms. Whalen.

MS. WHALEN: Thank you very much and welcome. I actually saw you at the breakfast with Mary-Lou Donnelly last week so I'm impressed at how you, working full-time, still find the time to be the representative for the home and school associations.

MS. WALSH: I think I probably work more hours at this than I do at my paying job, but I enjoy this - I do it because I want to.

MS. WHALEN: I'm sure it's true, that's often the way it is. It's very important work and I had quite a number of areas I wanted to touch on today. I wanted to go specifically to the involvement of parents in the school and the improved outcomes of the kids. As you said, regardless of the demographics, you get much improved outcomes in terms of graduation rates, attendance, and all the things that go into getting them through school and graduating.

I think there's a lot of evidence in studies that shows that really demonstrates this is important and yet, because of the changing age and demographics and social and economic issues, more and more parents are not involved in their schools. I think some of it is because they're just so busy with two-income families and all the other running around that parents do for so many other things.

I wondered, just going back to that, if you've made that case with the schools you represent, that getting the people more engaged will improve the education. You mentioned about the schools perhaps throwing things out if it comes in for parents, which shows a disconnect in the evidence. They should know the evidence is that it supports their work.

MS. WALSH: Usually in September we do a mail-out. I do a mail-out three times a year to all the schools, whether they're members or not. If they are a member, they get a little bit more information, but we don't neglect anybody.

MS. WHALEN: So every school in Nova Scotia?

MS. WALSH: Every school. The Department of Education kindly prints off the mailing labels for every school, so they all get something. In September when the mailing

goes out, in it are the benefits of being a member; being a member of us, our organization - and I have brochures to pass out later - the benefits of being a member with our organization, as well as just generally the benefits of being involved in your child's school.

MS. WHALEN: I'm certainly convinced of it and again, like you, I started when my children got into school, I got involved as well at the local school. I know how much work they do beyond just the fundraising, which is a big effort for everybody.

MS. WALSH: We always have to put that at the bottom of our list, because it's our belief that we shouldn't have to fund raise.

MS. WHALEN: Yes, and people are scared of the commitment for that, usually, but there is a great deal to be said about what you can learn and be connected and know the school, and therefore support your kids. I think that again it's just a shame that people are so busy and we have to somehow find a way to draw them in.

I think some of the programs you're talking about would be very interesting - the thing about the Internet and understanding that better. That's quite a mystery to many parents and they want to know more about what's going on and yet we don't have the opportunity perhaps to know, so it would be great. I even thought I should do that program and see what's going on there.

MS. WALSH: It's a very good program.

MS. WHALEN: Some departments of education in the States and elsewhere are really developing programs to connect parents to schools, trying to use that as a measure of their success. I think perhaps in your lobbying, you could be pushing that with government as well.

MS. WALSH: The national PTA is very powerful in the United States.

MS. WHALEN: Yes, exactly. Now I know we talked about your declining involvement of schools, could you tell me how many schools you represent?

MS. WALSH: Right now, we have 30 schools that are members.

MS. WHALEN: And what do they have to pay to belong?

MS. WALSH: For the membership fee, $100.

MS. WHALEN: Do you think it's the cost, partly, that deters them?

MS. WALSH: Out of the survey, that was one of the questions on the survey. We've probably got back about 25 surveys thus far - they just went out a few weeks ago - but that's not one of the reasons. When I've gone through them, that's not one of the reasons.

MS. WHALEN: Is there something that's sort of appearing in terms of the reason they're not, because most of these schools, the vast majority have at least some sort of parent-school association - that was the name of the one I belonged to.

MS. WALSH: Yes, generally it's in the elementary schools or P to Grade 9 schools. Once you get the junior high and high schools, it's the band parents. They're kind of - like the group is kind of specialized, but generally in the elementary schools it's . . .

MS. WHALEN: That's where they're more active.

MS. WALSH: Yes, and they're very active but they're not - it's getting the word out there, the benefits of being a member. Sometimes they don't see it because it's not always - we don't have a lot of money so when people want to be members, they want something tangible. A lot of the things, you know, they're intangible - it's the networking, the resources.

When we have our annual general meeting and conference, we have structured time for networking. It started at an hour - it's gone to two, and people still say it's not enough time.

MS. WHALEN: And that's just within Nova Scotia?

MS. WALSH: Yes, and that's not talking about the time like the people chat and get together over lunch or at breakfast. This is structured time during the day.

MS. WHALEN: I can certainly appreciate that you'd learn a lot from each other and get good ideas of things to do in your schools.

MS. WALSH: Just what's happening and just knowing that oh, yes, that's there or different Web sites and - usually we send out a newsletter and we always put in probably half a dozen Web sites, these are good Web sites to visit, trying to get that information out there.

MS. WHALEN: Tell me now, when I was active in my children's elementary school, French immersion was a big issue for us because my kids were in French immersion. The one time that we had turned to the provincial organization was when we wanted somebody to stand up and be an advocate for those programs. Is that common that you only get approached and called in when there's a crisis, when people feel that music is threatened or French immersion is threatened or something like that?

MS. WALSH: That's usually when we get called. In Halifax it was not providing lunch . . .

MS. WHALEN: The recent program about the lunch.

MS. WALSH: Yes, it would just be for students who were bused.

MS. WHALEN: Which is an inequity that we have.

MS. WALSH: So quite often it's when something happens, they don't see us in the proactive part, they want us to be reactive to them. Trying to get that message to people, it's like insurance, it's something that you probably should have, but you don't want it until you need it.

MS. WHALEN: I have an issue just in my area and I don't know how many you have on your list, Mr. Chairman, but I'd like to just ask about this one and that is, in a number of the schools in Halifax West, that family of schools in the area that I'm in, Halifax Clayton Park, the issue there is that we have a lot more newcomers moving here from outside the country, so they're new to Canada. As you said, the school system is a bit of a mystery even for parents who have gone through themselves or maybe feel uncomfortable going back in. For somebody who is not from here and they have cultural and language barriers, it really is a mystery and they aren't getting involved.

[10:00 a.m.]

I know a lot of the parents want to extend that welcome and get more people to come to the meetings. Is there any program that you know of that would help to be more welcoming for those newcomers or even a program like, I'm sure, in cities like Toronto - you deal nationally, and we have a lot of other cities that have many more newcomers than we do - how do we find a way to explain the system and explain our schools to those newcomers so that they feel a comfort level to participate and come into the schools and get involved? I think it would be an excellent initiative if we could look for something. I always believe it's happening somewhere else, we just need to find the right program, we don't have to write it for Nova Scotia.

MS. WALSH: We don't need to reinvent the wheel. Duc d'Anville School is a really good example.

MS. WHALEN: Is that one of your schools?

MS. WALSH: Not now but they had been and they always used to be quite involved with Teacher/Staff Appreciation Week. I remember being there, probably about four years ago, and the parent who wanted the information on Teacher/Staff Appreciation Week said

to me, there are so many communication barriers. We can't even explain it to them, because we don't even talk the same language.

I think over the years there has been a better relationship between teachers and parents. There used to be a time that you dropped your kids off at school and the teachers did their thing, but I think now it's much more interactive in many places. I think some of the barriers, teachers don't seem to be quite as defensive, parents are kind of talking a bit more of the same language. It's difficult for people who are from here and are familiar with the education system, but for a lot of parents who really want to reach out to the parents that they would look to sometimes don't feel very comfortable themselves trying to explain it to them.

MS. WHALEN: I just think it's part of even our immigration policy, when we talk about creating welcoming communities. An awful lot of the immigrants who are coming in are arriving with children and their link to society, in a sense, especially for the mothers or the one parent who's not at work, that link is in the community and through the schools just as it is for us. When my children started school it opened up a whole new world for me in terms of, as you say, lots of volunteer hours, making new friends, getting involved, connecting in the community that we chose to live in, so it has a lot of benefits. I certainly have felt that through the years.

I just feel we could be doing one more thing to be a welcoming community if we found a way to invite newcomers to the schools and maybe had a structured program that we could present to help them feel that this was their school, that they belong. Maybe it's something you could advise me on later, but I'd love to know if there's a program out there that we could perhaps try to bring in, because I know the schools in my area have PTAs, so if we could get them involved with that.

MS. WALSH: I get a lot of calls from them, like if there's a specific question, but that's where we get most of them.

MS. WHALEN: Well, when I visit them I'll make sure to let them know that I think there's a benefit to belonging and give me some brochures.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. We're going to go to Ms. Massey.

MS. JOAN MASSEY: Thank you, Janet, for coming in, it has been quite interesting to listen to you speak today. I wouldn't be here today if I had not been involved with the home and school association in my children's school. That's the only reason that I really am sitting here today, is because at some point I took that role on and just started out volunteering and doing all of those things and then was secretary of the home and school and then president of the home and school.

It's really nice to hear you talk about the organization today. It has been around for a very long time in the province and when I hear that the organization has gone down to 30 schools, do you think the fact that we brought on school advisory councils, has that had any impact on numbers going down, because parents see that as an alternative or not, maybe you don't see that? Is there any discussion in the home and school organizations that maybe that has had some kind of impact on the numbers?

MS. WALSH: Initially when school advisory councils came about in the late 1990s, that certainly was a concern and with quite a bit of animosity. Many home and schools felt the school advisory councils were going to take over what they do, but that's certainly not the case. The role of the school advisory council is quite different from what a home and school does. The school advisory council just advises, and many people initially became involved with school advisory councils because they thought, I want to get in there and we're going to change the policies, we're going to do this. One gentleman said to me it was a real power trip, but they realized after it wasn't what they had thought it was going to be. They thought they could do more being with the home and school.

As an organization - and this was before I was really involved with the provincial home and school, I didn't know the provincial home and school existed. When I was at local home and school - I live in Sackville - something came in the mail and I thought, I'm off, I think I'll go to this and I got involved. As an organization we felt threatened and the minister of the day - there was a clear distinction between what school advisory councils do and what home and schools do. Many of our members, it's like home and school, school advisory council and even the home and school, there are probably 10 or 12 people who show up at the meeting, it's all the parents of the school who comprise the home and school.

MS. MASSEY: I know you mentioned that you at one point did have a paid staff person. Do you not have office space now either?

MS. WALSH: We do have office space.

MS. MASSEY: But that's paid for how?

MS. WALSH: That's with the Department of Education.

MS. MASSEY: They provide that free?

MS. WALSH: They provide office space and it's at the Quinpool Education Centre.

MS. MASSEY: Over what period of time did you actually have a paid staff person and was it full-time or part-time?

MS. WALSH: She was full-time for a year, she had been a board member with us and this has been something that we've seen as a need for a number of years. She was looking to go back into the workforce and she applied through HRDC, and she lived down Yarmouth way and it was a satellite office that she ran out of that area, so that was a grant through HRDC. She wanted to get back into the workforce and she saw this as something that was a win-win situation for everybody, so she was just there for that one year.

MS. MASSEY: I am really concerned about the numbers that we see here today. I do feel there was an impact when the SACs came on board, that many people saw them as an opportunity to have, as you said, a real impact on policy and that maybe there has been some confusion over what the home and school associations and the school advisory councils do. I'm sure people have moved back and forth between both those organizations.

MS. WALSH: I chaired the school advisory council too.

MS. MASSEY: I've been to school advisory council meetings and what have you. I'm just wondering, Mr. Chairman, if it would be appropriate at this time if I could actually make a motion?

MR. CHAIRMAN: Why don't we wait until we hear the balance of the questions and then we'll move forward.

MS. MASSEY: Wait till the end? I would like to put forward a motion at the end of the questions. I see the home and school association as being so important to the school environment and the children who are in it. I love that you put up the equation - parent involvement equals student improvement, or however you put that. I used to use that over and over again and every time I tried to send something out to the parents, that was what I tried to get through to parents. I think the home and school association relies very heavily on the interaction with the principal, the vice-principal and the staff in the schools, and I think they really work together as a team. I would hate to see the numbers continue to drop.

I think it's something this committee needs to really look at seriously and I think if there's anything we can do - and I'll try to make a motion at the end - I think we should try to do something to keep this organization going forward in a direction. You do a lot of work, a huge amount of work, and it's all done by volunteers. I think, actually, the numbers of volunteers in the province may be going down and like you say, we're all busy, so I think if there's anything the government can do to help this organization move forward, or at least stay at a level that it's at now, I think we have to do that. I think it's very important to our children in the school system.

I just want to thank you for all the hard work that you do and everybody else in your organization and all the volunteers on the various home and schools that are either not a member or are a member of the organization. Thank you very much for coming in and taking your time to do that.

MS. WALSH: Can I just make one comment about the teachers, staff and the administration? They work well together, that seems to be key. It starts at the front door with the school administrator - if the school administrator welcomes parent involvement, it makes a world of difference.

In November, I was at the Nova Scotia School Boards Association Fall Symposium, and their theme was professional learning communities and they showcased a number of schools. There were different sessions, so unfortunately you couldn't get to all of them, but what struck me was a number of schools - there were maybe 16 different schools that did short presentations - are members of our association. When the parents are involved provincially and they see the benefits, it just seemed to work together so well.

When I looked at the program, when I got it I said, they're a member, they're a member - the schools that are involved with us are doing things very well, but it's just trying to get at everybody else that's out there and it's difficult. I think it's very much dependent on school staff, because they're the ones who were portrayed as doing very well with their professional learning communities and the support that they got from that and the involvement. It just shows globally within each school what works well for parents is also working well for staff and vice versa.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Mr. Parker.

MR. PARKER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It's an interesting presentation and certainly very important to hear from the parent's perspective of what is their role in our education system and as we know, it's vital not just for teachers and principals, but the parent has a very important role. At one time, I was a teacher and my involvement with parents primarily was on parent-teacher night. You would see them come in, a long lineup, and you would have two or five minutes or whatever - not near enough - and occasionally other opportunities to sit down with a parent, but really not a lot. And maybe that's changing - I know there's certainly more emphasis on the parents being involved.

I guess I was going to ask, then, what role or how important is the parent in the classroom, and are you getting much access to that? Are you encouraging parents to come in and be part of their child's education, to be in the classroom with the teacher, with the students, or are you hitting some discouragement or barriers in that regard?

MS. WALSH: It's usually in the early grade, Primary - that's when teachers quite often like to see parents in the classroom then. As they go through the grades, as they progress, you don't see parent involvement in the classroom as much. They do many things to support what they do in the classroom, whether it's in the library, parent volunteers in the library, or with coaching, the after-school activities, but in the classrooms it very much depends on the teacher. I think it's how comfortable the teacher is and how confident the teacher is and if they're intimidated by parents. God love parents - I think when they go, they go with the best intentions, the best interests, but sometimes they can come across and there would be the teacher at the other side of the classroom - generally it's because something has gone wrong, something is not right, and it's more confrontational than working together.

[10:15 a.m.]

Certainly any time that I was there in the class and liked to help out, whether with math manipulatives or whether they're doing - fractions, learning to cook - I was more than welcome there, but I think it very much depends on the chemistry between the teachers and the parents.

MR. PARKER: Certainly there are a number of TAs now in the classroom helping the special-needs children quite often and occasionally I've seen parents right in the classroom, too, I guess with permission I assume, or with the guidance of the teacher certainly. If he or she didn't want the parent there, I suppose they wouldn't be, but I suppose it seems like a way to go. You certainly don't want a whole bunch of parents out there all at once, but one or two from time to time I think would be beneficial.

MS. WALSH: I don't think it can do any harm.

MR. PARKER: No, no, and it's probably an asset to the teacher to have the extra help. I'm sure it could be well used at times.

Okay, a couple of other short snappers here. You mentioned a 1-800 number, can you give us that for your association, just in case we want to pass that along to the parents you're talking to?

MS. WALSH: Okay, 1-800-214-8373, but there's nobody to answer it.

MR. PARKER: Okay, that's why you need a staff person there to help you out.

MS. WALSH: So I check in with the voice mail every few days and that would be something that - and that was one of the big things, that somebody is there to actually answer the phone at the other end.

MR. PARKER: It can make a difference, for sure.

MS. WALSH: Even if they don't know the answer - quite often I don't know the answer and I'll get an e-mail or a phone call and say I don't know, like I'll check it out, I'll find out what I can about it and get back to you. So even if they have that.

MR. PARKER: Okay. Has your association taken a stand one way or the other on the issue of cellphones, iPods or technological devices being used in the classroom by students? The cellphone or the picture cellphone is very common, and I know some school boards have banned them altogether and other individual schools have. Does the association have a stand on that issue?

MS. WALSH: It was one of the resolutions that has just gone to the minister, from our AGM in December and it was to ban cellphones in the classrooms. Now, if they had them on the school grounds or outside class time, that's okay, but in the classroom, text messaging and taking pictures, because quite often students, anybody - my daughter took a picture of me. You don't even know sometimes if they're taking a picture and you know they could be in gym class - it doesn't matter where they are, it's inappropriate. So that was our stand on it. So those resolutions - and they go to a number of destinations. All of them go to the Department of Education for sure, some to NSSBA, some to NSTU. That one in particular, I believe it was the only government department that one went to.

MR. PARKER: No, it's becoming an increasing problem in some schools and it's a worry. It's even difficult for the teachers to teach when there's text messaging and pictures and so on, so I'm glad to hear that.

MS. WALSH: It's a real distraction, certainly to the students who are using it and to the ones sitting on either side of them - it's a distraction.

MR. PARKER: A few minutes ago in one of your answers, you were talking about special-needs children. I think the question came up from one of our members here and we have an increasing number of special-needs children, no question about it. A few months ago we had a presentation here on, I guess, children who couldn't cope in the system and they were going to private schools to get the help they needed. That's a question of tuition, whether they can afford it or not.

But still, in the regular classrooms, there are a lot of special-needs children and it's difficult for some of those parents of special-needs children to figure out the system, how to get through it, how to maybe access another institution, but even just how to access a psychologist or other needs that they have. Do you see a role for home and school in maybe navigating people through the system, or maybe even advocating for a navigator to help those parents to figure out how best to help their child get through those difficulties?

MS. WALSH: Through the SEPS Committee that we sit on, about three years ago there was a subcommittee and they developed - it was going to be a pamphlet to start with, but it ended up to be much more than that. It was a parents guide, from when parents have any problems arise. The unfortunate part is it doesn't go to all the parents, so they have this really nice book - I call it a book, because it's . . .

MS. MASSEY: It's quite thick.

MS. WALSH: It's pretty substantial and I mean it's available on-line, as parents know, but we try to get the word out there about it but to actually have a hard copy of it, we didn't have enough for all the parents. We did have enough to send to our member associations. It's quite interesting, because it's put out there for parents - there were a number of people involved in it. One of our board members has a son who has learning disabilities, and she met with the guidance counsellor and the guidance counsellor had no idea what she was talking about. So some of our educators don't even know what's out there. So you feel really bad for parents if they're looking for something: who do I turn to, who can I call, is there anybody else, do I have to be on this wait list through the school? It takes a long time to see a school psychologist.

If parents are willing to pay for it on their own, they may not know that, but neither do the guidance counsellors sometimes. So the very people who are in those schools and in those positions that you hope would be able to help direct and steer parents in the right direction, they're not aware of it. But there is a book, there is . . .

MS. MASSEY: It's really thick.

MS. WALSH: It's very well done. They talk about different adaptations, there are a number of things, you know, from when you first suspect your child may have a disability or may need further interventions. So there is something out there, but it's hard to find.

MR. PARKER: It's hard to navigate through the system, isn't it?

MS. WALSH: Yeah, so even if we get a call, okay, it's out there, I see it - I mean we have some copies in our office, you know we can send it to these people.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Time for a quick question, Mr. Parker.

MR. PARKER: A very quick question. Okay, a quick question . . .

MS. WALSH: So you need a quick answer, too. Okay, that's key then.

MR. PARKER: There's been a trend here in Nova Scotia lately of seeing powers of school boards being taken away, a disturbing trend from my point of view, but now some

other provinces don't have school boards at all. Do you see a role, if that trend continues, that for other school advisory committees or home and school associations to step up to the plate and maybe to be involved somewhat in governance of our schools?

MS. WALSH: I would love to see that happen. I wouldn't want to see school boards go by the wayside, because I believe school boards do have a role to play, but in our organization we always say it's for the children. If you're not there for the children, there's the door. It's that basic.

So I think that's what we always have to keep in mind, because many times people have their own agendas. Somebody said to me, when I went to the Halifax board meeting last week to give a submission, what are you worried about, it doesn't even affect your kids. I said, it's not about my kids, it's about the other kids out there who don't have anybody to advocate for them, they don't know what to do, where to go, or who to call. I think school boards work well if they're there for the right reason. But if personalities come into it or the personal opinions, and it's not in the best interests of the children, they're not going to work. I think that's probably what we've seen.

I think if school boards were done away with and certainly the education partners, that's something we don't want to see - not just the Nova Scotia School Boards Association, but all the other partners - because we feel they do have a role to play. Again, it's trying to get the people to go there and I know one of the comments made at the education partners meeting was that it's a huge time commitment and people don't always have the time. If you're a parent, you just have one issue, that one burning issue, you can fight for that one thing and it's not going to take you four years as a board member to do it. So for some parents they feel that's more effective. There has to be some level there, whether they're called school boards or not, but there needs to be somebody there.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Mr. Morse.

MR. MORSE: I'm not sure that you're going to be able to answer this question, but you did provide something that was of particular interest to me and it's historical. Before we get to that, I think we should all acknowledge that Minister d'Entremont has explained his big majorities in the last couple of election campaigns and it has nothing to do with him, it has everything to do with Anne. Knowing Anne, this comes as no surprise; if you want to get something done, you had better approach a busy person. So for all those parent volunteers out there like Anne - and I married somebody similar to Anne and when we had children in the system she fulfilled that role as well, thank you.

MS. WHALEN: Why is it always the women? (Interruptions)

MS. WALSH: My husband used to be the president of the local home and school before I was, so there are a few men out there, but they are few and far between.

MR. MORSE: Thank you for all that you do and to Diana's point, she's right, I think that it probably is disproportionately mothers not fathers. We of the male gender are very appreciative.

MS. WHALEN: You're going to do it when you retire, right? (Laughter)

MR. MORSE: In 1885, fascinating, that was the beginning of the home and school.

MS. WALSH: With Mabel Bell.

MR. MORSE: How many people around this table know anything about Mabel Bell other than she was the wife of Alexander Graham Bell?

MS. WHALEN: She was deaf.

MR. MORSE: Exactly, she was deaf. As the grandfather of a deaf child it fascinates me that this lady somehow or other overcame her disability which would have been a bigger challenge, I suggest, at that time and she founded the home and school. Are you able to speak to how she was able to do this?

MS. WALSH: Dare I say she had a good man behind her? (Laughter)

MS. MASSEY: She was a woman.

MS. WALSH: She was a woman and she was well-known. Money speaks and she came from money. In Baddeck they were "the" people and probably whatever the Bells said, went.

MR. MORSE: I believe her money came from Scotland.

MS. WALSH: I believe so, it wasn't local money.

MR. MORSE: Anyway, I just want to acknowledge the little history that you gave us of the association and that certainly fascinates me that it was Mabel Bell.

Idle-free zones - I went to a gathering in Wolfville about a year ago where it was the home and school, I believe - because it was at the Wolfville school - that were encouraging people not to idle their cars. I'm curious whether they were the genesis of this movement or did it come from the provincial association and was being promoted . . .

MS. WALSH: Quite often, our resolutions are coming from something that we - we work quite closely with our cohorts across the country. If something is happening in Alberta or Ontario, it's not long before it's going to happen here. So sometimes we hear things that way, what's happening nationally, and we try to get a jump on it.

[10:30 a.m.]

One of the ones we did that we were quite proud of was the food and nutrition policy. That was a resolution that went through from our organization before the other three - NSTU and NSSBA - and we did a lot of soul-searching on that one, because it was the bane of our existence for many schools, their fundraising, but that's one we're very proud of. The idling one is one of our resolutions that just went out and was passed at our last AGM. That one, I think, did come from our Annapolis Valley Regional rep. We have regional reps who correspond to the school board areas and that one did come from the Valley.

MR. MORSE: Anyway, I proudly wore my sticker on the back window before it got washed off about two weeks ago in the torrential rain - I'm not sure there's any hope for it anymore. But it was, I thought, a very constructive message and I appreciate, once again, the work of the home and school that perhaps it branched out beyond what we consider is your traditional areas of influence or jurisdiction.

Bullying. Have you been able to do anything in that area by way of being a resource for distraught parents or in assisting their children?

MS. WALSH: A couple of years ago, that was the whole theme for our annual general meeting - to strike out bullying. We had excellent speakers, evaluations were really good. Some of the guest speakers - the members who were there have contacted these speakers to go to their areas. What we encourage schools to do is if one school wants to have a guest speaker, ask the schools from their family of schools to come. But bullying was one of the big ones and nationally, with the Canadian Home and School Federation, we're looking at cyber-bullying. There are so many different aspects to bullying, we can't tackle them all, but cyber-bullying is one of the ones that we're looking at and we're also looking at gun control nationally.

Just yesterday in P.E.I., we heard the rumour about guns in schools, so we had a teleconference from our national board last night and they were saying, you think that something like that is not going to happen in a small place, but it can happen anywhere. We can't downplay it when you hear, oh they're just chatting about that on Facebook, because you know what? If the seed is planted, if it's a rumour, it's the beginning of something growing. They're not going to chat about it and then it's going to go away; if it's there I think you really need to heed what you're hearing. Certainly, that's what we say to parents, don't brush anything off.

One of our guest speakers, Pam Mood - actually, I think she's from down your way - she is excellent. She does a really good session on bullying and she'll go in and do it in the schools and in the evenings she'll do a parent presentation. Certainly from our members, she's been around to a lot of our schools, because people have seen her at our conference. So we do try to get the word out there, because we're not the experts in it, but we know who to turn to.

MR. MORSE; Okay, the last one is kind of an open-ended question picking up on the bullying theme. Maybe I have some sort of stilted view of some of the work that we do, whether it's in the movies or buy computer games or other videos, but some of the bizarre news stories that come out with people going into schools with guns and shooting teachers and students and some of the gang violence, it seems to be encouraged by some of these mediums. I'm wondering whether the home and school has ever come to grips with that one and has any opinions. I am concerned by some of the messages.

MS. WALSH: Some of the videos?

MR. MORSE: Oh, absolutely.

MS. WALSH: That was another item on our agenda last night, nationally - the video-game ratings. There is a subcommittee looking at that whole idea of where we can play a role in that with messaging either through our national Web site and print material, to get out to as many parents and just to raise awareness. I think many times parents have no idea what their kids are playing on their computer or on TV, and parents sometimes are oblivious to it. Some of the violent games and sexual connotations, kids pick up on it and for some parents, right over their heads. They're not in tune with what the word on the street is and what's happening - they're not connected. Again, fortunately the ones that seem to know are the ones where it's not an issue. It's trying to get the word out there and get the message out there to parents who really do need to know.

MR. MORSE: I would just say that anything that can be done to advance the cause of discretion in that area, I think, is constructive. I think there's an alarming parallel between some of these high-profile incidents and what I understand is depicted on some of these games and certainly in the movies and on television shows. It makes it tough for some of the young people who are struggling to know the difference between right and wrong if this is held out to them as some sort of normal behaviour.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Morse. Mr. Theriault.

MR. HAROLD THERIAULT: Thank you, Ms. Walsh, I certainly appreciate what you and your association are doing. It's a shame that the volunteers are going down, but it seems to be that way in everything in Nova Scotia when it comes to volunteers. I appreciate that you're understanding why it's happening; we have to give more incentive somehow to

volunteers. Maybe we can tell our parents that if they get involved with their children more in school, that maybe they'll come out of it bright enough in the end that they can take care of us all a lot better than maybe we're taking care of ourselves. That gives me incentive to stay involved with my family, that's for sure, because our children are our future - no doubt about it, no argument there whatsoever. To build a better future we need to certainly make sure our children are taught a lot better than probably I was, I'll say that - I was going to say we, but I'll say I.

Just two or three quick ones on the bullying, the pink shirt campaign, do you think it made some difference?

MS. WALSH: I think so.

MR. THERIAULT: And do you believe you're going to continue that campaign and keep pushing that? I think it was great.

MS. WALSH: I think it was. Kudos to those kids, really, because representation from the education partners wanted to do something with bullying and anti-bullying, probably in conjunction with National Anti-Bullying Week in November. We were getting so hung up on who's going to do what and what the mandate was going to be, I thought, do you know what? I remember saying at a meeting, kids could fix this better than I could and you know, they did. It was such a simple thing they did, but what an impact it has had. I think those couple of students at Central Kings are probably a little overwhelmed and I think it was wonderful what they did - kudos to them.

MR. THERIAULT: I've been wearing more pink ever since, if anybody noticed. (Laughter)

MS. WALSH: Well, actually for Education Week this year the theme is . . .

MR. MORSE: Junior, we just thought it was your feminine side.

MR. THERIAULT: Two or three questions I get from constituents, and I don't know if you can answer them or not, maybe I shouldn't put you on the spot - that's the way I work, I guess. Prayers in school: is the association - I mean I'm not going to ask you whether it's good or bad, but does the association discuss this? Do they talk about it a lot, like is prayer in your discussions much in schools - religious prayers?

MS. WALSH: Probably not at individual schools, but at our annual general meeting conference we say the home and school prayer at the beginning of our deliberations. One year it would be the Creed and another year the prayer, we rotate. It's something that probably hasn't come up.

MR. THERIAULT: You know it's been brought up to me a few times, that's all. I never really knew how to answer it. I certainly say my prayers every chance I get but whether someone else wants to or not, or my forcing it on somebody else, that's a different question.

Metal detectors in schools - has that been brought up in any of your discussions? Getting back to guns, speaking about guns and weapons, I've been asked if metal detectors should be put in schools. Does that go too far?

MS. WALSH: I don't think you want to make the schools feel like a prison; you want them to be welcoming. You really have to weigh the good against the bad. Can you imagine a 4-year-old child having to go through a metal detector?

We would like to be, I guess - no, we would prefer not to see metal detectors, but who knows what society is going to be like in 20 years' time? Maybe that's going to be the route we're going to have to go, maybe there will be metal detectors when you walk into a shopping centre. I mean, who knows what the future is going to be.

Right now, we would just like more diligence by the people who are in the schools. This was a resolution from last year: for all school staff to wear IDs; just have the main door open, don't have side doors open where anybody can - unless you can get out, in the event of a fire alarm the kids can go out, but you don't have access in there; a sign-in for volunteers; and for teachers and students just to be on the alert for anything amiss. That's certainly the route that we would choose to go.

MR. THERIAULT: The food and nutrition policy of Nova Scotia, do you believe that the Department of Education is doing enough there?

MS. WALSH: I think the - can you ever do enough? I mean I think it's certainly very much a concerted effort between Education, Health, and Health Promotion and Protection. Education and Health have to work so closely together and I don't know if that's because my background is in health care, but certainly a determinant of health is education. So I think it's just a natural fit for them.

Some things I would like to see faster, but in any implementation change takes time and for many high schools where they didn't have the deep fat fryers and the pop machines, it is a change. My belief is that with any change, when that policy first came into effect, until those children have all gone through the school system so the students who are there and say, well, we used to be able to do this, you know that whole - until you see the change going to take that whole school. I mean, they all had to pass through there. But I think it's eventually become more common, and certainly when - you know, we've had speakers at our meetings from healthy schools and there's - like part of it is the education for the children, because it's like recycling, who did we learn that from? It was our kids. So I think it's going to be the same thing with the nutrition.

[10:45 a.m.]

The kids, my daughter lately - I mean, if there's anything more than five ingredients on the box, I don't think we should be buying that, and she is in Grade 10. So I think the kids are certainly starting to be more aware of it, but it's going to take time to change, no change happens overnight. When somebody tells you that you have to change, nobody likes it, rebel. But when they see the value in it - and you know, a lot of principals said before the food and nutrition policy came into effect that they would have carrot sticks and veggie dip and apples in their canteen, it would never sell, oh no, not when you give them a choice. If it's going to be chips or carrots, most kids would probably go for chips; but if your choices are apples or carrots, they'll be eaten up.

You always aim for up here. You have to set your bar high and people will strive for that. But if you set it down here, that's as far as people will go. We can always do more.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Ms. Walsh. Just before we end, I have a couple of things myself. One was that question about the 1-800 number and if I heard you correctly, you answer that line or you check the voice mails, I guess, from time to time.

MS. WALSH: Yes.

MR. CHAIRMAN: How many calls a week would you get?

MS. WALSH: It can vary. Usually at the beginning of the year we get probably a half-dozen a week. Most of the communication is by e-mail. Most will e-mail and certainly in anything that we send out obviously, that's usually the best way to get somebody.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Sure it is, thank you. You talked a lot about the home, the parent, the teacher and the relationship there. I think I would be remiss if I didn't mention our own school, Windsor Elementary. Mike Knowles is there as the principal and has been for some years.

MS. WALSH: Which school is that again?

MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Mike Knowles. I don't know if you know Mike or not. On the first day of school, the kids all come into the elementary school - and I don't know if this is tradition everywhere - they go the gym and then they'll meet their teacher and they'll be taken off to the classroom. The very first statement that Mr. Knowles says is, this school belongs to you - and he's talking to the parents. That door is open, you are as much of that school as the teachers are there. It's an interesting relationship and it works very, very well, and I think probably the volunteer turnout speaks to that in some way.

We have a parent-school association as well and my wife is currently the president of that association and I have been a member of that association, actually, over the years.

MS. WALSH: And is your school a member of our association?

MR. CHAIRMAN: I can't tell you if we are or not, I'd have to go and look.

MS. WALSH: I give everybody a brochure.

MR. CHAIRMAN: I know that we got the paperwork with regard to your last AGM and so on, to take part.

MS. WALSH: At least it doesn't get thrown in the garbage, so that's good.

MR. CHAIRMAN: I guess I just wanted to stress the importance of that, the principal does run the school, there's no question about it, he is the main person there as far as making decisions. He sits on that board and has an awful lot of input (Interruption) We're number 8, so we are. Thank you for that.

So that relationship is key, you're right, and I think we have to stress that a little bit more, I think, from the home and school perspective.

MS. WALSH: Certainly we always raise the bar high, but I always look at it - we have to look at the quality and not the quantity. If we have 200 members and they don't support us or they're just listed as a member, what's the good of that? I'd rather have 30 very active members who really advocate for what they believe in. So trying to strike that balance, we'll go for 50.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you for being here today, I know we've enjoyed this very much. I'm going to go to Ms. Massey. You had a motion that you wanted to make and then the committee does have one more item of business we need to discuss just for a few minutes.

MS. MASSEY: Mr. Chairman, I would like to make a motion that the Human Resources Committee strongly advise the Nova Scotia Government to provide funding for one paid staff person to the Nova Scotia Federation of Home and School Associations.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Morse.

MR. MORSE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I very much appreciate what this volunteer organization does and certainly it would be nice to be able to support that type of motion. Last session we talked about the enormous price tag of meeting our desires of our post-secondary education students. I think I pointed out that in order to just move to the next

increment on the government's commitment to tuition reduction would, in essence, cost the equivalent of the budget of a mid-sized department.

Ms. Massey certainly was quick to point out that the government has to have a plan as to how to meet these commitments and, just borrowing a page from her book, I think we should let the budgeting process go forward, there are already significant commitments out there and the Minister of Finance has indicated that it's going to be difficult to meet all of them. To be adding additional commitments without knowing where the money is going to come from, I think, would not be prudent at this time, so I regretfully am going to have to vote against the motion.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Further discussion? Ms. Whalen.

MS. WHALEN: I had actually drafted a similar resolution. I think it's the right thing to do in terms of what we're hearing and there are a couple of reasons for that. This is a non-profit organization so we're looking for a staff person, full-time in a non-profit organization. I can tell you that wouldn't be the same cost as fixing our post-secondary education; as I'm sure you know, it's a small amount.

The thing is we know that there is significant evidence that if you can mobilize parents to be more involved in their schools at a local level, you are going to improve the outcomes. The Department of Education is all about outcomes, how are you going to get more attendance, better marks, higher scores on tests, the whole thing and more graduates who can take their place in our society. So I think that by enabling the home and school association to be more effective, they can reach more parents and we'll have better results at the end of the day. To me this is a very clear link between a single staff person, the support that these volunteers need to do their work, and getting better results in the school, for a very minimal cost. The one year that they tried it already as, let's call it, a pilot, they had a staff member for a year and were able to reach a lot more parents.

I just think it's the right thing to do and if anything, I might add to the end of the motion just the rationale for it. I had finished mine by saying: to enable them to engage more parents in the education of their children, or you might want to say, to improve the effectiveness of the school system. That is the reason. We want to fund it so that they can be enabled to do the work that they've set out to do.

I think it's really important that the government - and I think we're fortunate to have a number of ministers at the table today - hear that this is a cost-effective, simple way to make more impact on the school system.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Mr. d'Entremont.

MR. D'ENTREMONT: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Continually we talk about priorities in government and trying to, especially when it comes to education, get the dollars to the classroom and making resources available to teachers so that they can teach our children. I don't think at this point it would be advisable to fund a volunteer organization - volunteer organizations, we need many more of them across this province and we need to have them engaged in the education of our children, yet I would like to see the dollars flow to the classroom where they're needed the most, so I would have to vote against this as well.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Glavine.

MR. GLAVINE: I would like to speak in favour of the motion. The reason being, at the beginning of the session I put fair emphasis on membership in the home and school association, the reason being that I know there are many schools that have PTAs - parent-teacher associations - and PTSAs - parent-teacher-student associations - that are not members, however, of home and school. Home and school provides a structure inside a national organization that can pick up on some of the themes and compelling actions that schools need to be taking.

When you take a look at three areas of your work: promoting parental involvement, and I think we are seeing an increase, the work of home and school; the nutrition policy, the home and school was the founding voice for that in Nova Scotia; and the anti-idling campaign has been endorsed by - I know AVRSB just passed a motion that all of their schools will have anti-idling zones. So you're doing positive, good work in building school communities and for that reason, for a very small financial assist, and perhaps even some partnering with government and some other organizations to make this possible, that's why I would support the motion.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Theriault.

MR. THERIAULT: I'm neither for nor against it. What I am for - and I'm not sitting on the fence - the first thing I would want to know if my wife came home and said she wanted to buy something, the first thing I ask her is, what's the cost of this? Before we can vote on a motion that we don't even know what the cost is, I think the first motion should be, let's look into seeing what the cost of this would be.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Parker, quickly.

MR. PARKER: I just want to speak quickly in support of this motion. It's not binding the government to anything, it's just simply asking that they look carefully at it and then it's still their decision in the Department of Finance or the Department of Education; so we're just asking or recommending that the department look at it. Really, it's for the benefit of our

children, that's what we're all interested in, for sure. The cost, it's pretty minimal in the big picture. I don't know what a salary might be, $25,000 or $35,000, whatever, but that's the cost to provide a full-time staff person to the home and school association in this province. I think it's a very small cost for a very big benefit.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Mr. Paris.

MR. PARIS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, Mr. Parker, because you probably took Part A of what I was going to say, but I want to add further, I think one of the things that we have to consider when we put forward a recommendation like this is that times have changed. We talk around this table, I even heard it here today and certainly, I heard it at the last school board meeting, that times have changed, and one of the key things around prevention is parental involvement.

One of the things that we don't have in our school system today is we don't have enough parents being involved with the education of their children. So I think what we have to take into consideration, and it has been said here today, that the more the parents are involved with the education of their children, then we decrease in some of those outcomes that prohibit and that are costly in the end. I think anything that we can do to have more parental involvement in the public education system of Nova Scotia will assist us immensely - maybe not tomorrow, but five years, 10 years and it's something we will reap the benefit of for years to come.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Mr. d'Entremont, very quickly, 30 seconds or less.

MR. D'ENTREMONT: All right, I'm going to do this in 30 seconds and it's very difficult to do. I come from a different view, though, I feel that volunteerism - and I've been a volunteer for many years now in different organizations, but the reason why volunteerism is on the decline is because there are too many paid positions that government has created in time, years and years, to take over from the volunteers. If a volunteer on the ground sees someone organizing, somebody doing the work, they're less apt to volunteer, because they feel it's being covered. I feel that a strong volunteer organization that stands up for itself and does its work and has strong members is much better than having a government-sponsored manager who is going to do all the work on behalf of the volunteers and therefore, basically shoot itself in the foot.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Ms. Massey, if you would read your motion one more time, please, we will vote.

MS. WALSH: Can I just say, we do get some money from the Department of Education, we get $20,500, so we do get a little. (Interruption)

MR. CHAIRMAN: Absolutely, we can do a recorded vote. Do you want to read your motion?

MS. MASSEY: I'll read it again. I would make a motion that the Human Resources Committee strongly advise the Nova Scotia Government to provide funding for one paid staff person to the Nova Scotia Federation of Home and School Associations. Just in closing on my motion, I would also accept Ms. Whalen's add-on to the motion, as a friendly add-on, I guess you would call it. I think hers was something - do you want to read your add-on, Ms. Whalen?

MS. WHALEN: My addition would be, to enable them to increase parental involvement in education.

MS. MASSEY: Just in closing my part of the debate on it, the government has asked for community consultation on the budget. There's an Internet site right now that anybody can go to, to give their viewpoint, so what this is saying is "strongly advise" - this is advising and it's up to the government to decide what they want to do with that money and we'll all debate it at Province House very shortly.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Ms. Massey.

There was a request for a recorded vote

YEAS NAYS

Ms. Whalen Mr. d'Entremont

Mr. Paris Mr. Morse

Mr. Theriault

Mr. Glavine

Mr. Parker

Ms. Massey

MR. CHAIRMAN: The motion is carried.

I want to thank you again for coming, Ms. Walsh, we certainly have enjoyed your presentation and time this morning, thank you for that.

[11:00 a.m.]

We just have one very quick thing, ladies and gentlemen, and that is the advertising has to go out again for the ABCs very shortly, and we wanted to address it briefly this morning. The Web site ad. I know that Ms. Massey and Ms. Whalen, who have sat on the subcommittee, are aware of what's out there, and the hard copy ad looks like this - it goes

to all the big papers. Darlene, do you want to speak to the numbers at all, very briefly, to give us an idea of where we are with what we've done?

MRS. DARLENE HENRY (Legislative Committee Clerk): Of course you know the stats on these changes, they're changing periodically, but as of January 4^th the committee had received 145 applications to those ads, 18 of them were re-applications. The numbers are increasing, but not as dramatically as the committee had hoped they would.

MR. CHAIRMAN: So the question to the committee really is, are we okay to stay with what we did, at least for one more round, both on-line and in the hard copy papers? It did increase a bit from the work that was done by the subcommittee and committee, not drastically by any means, but the numbers did go up a little bit. I know a lot of time and effort has gone into trying to make it better. As a member, I'm promoting it in my office as much as I can, and I'm sure all of you are as well. Are we okay to move forward for postage mail-out for April 19^th , I believe?

MRS. HENRY: Yes, it's scheduled to go in April.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Ms. Whalen.

MS. WHALEN: I'd certainly support the new format, I think sometimes it takes a little while to make the change become more effective. It certainly is a lot more attractive ad and I think it's going to catch people's attention. What I would like to ask is if the clerk could send us that ad, maybe not just to us but to all MLAs, because if we receive that electronically we could send it to the people that we're in touch with electronically, and I think that's the way to get the word out and, as was said earlier, e-mail and through the Internet is a big way to communicate. In fact, if I had it electronically I could put it on my Web site.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Certainly, I could as well. Ms. Massey.

MS. MASSEY: I'm just wondering if we can have the breakdown with those numbers. How many of those applications are actually applying to five or six different positions, too? Is there a breakdown for that? You might not have it now, but could you get it?

MRS. HENRY: No, I would have to contact the ABC coordinator at Executive Council for her to provide me with that information.

MS. MASSEY: So if we could get that and also how many women applied and how many men altogether. A lot of these are people, I'm going to assume, if you look at the resumés, some have applied for five or six different committees, so really, those numbers, it's not really 145 applicants.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Yes, I guess that's a good point and the other is, those people, although they may have applied for four or five, are they new people who are applying? Whether they've applied for four or five to me is irrelevant, it's, are we attracting new people applying? So it would be interesting to have a look at those numbers.

MS. MASSEY: Yes, more of a detailed breakdown.

MR. CHAIRMAN: It's after 11:00 a.m., I want to thank you all very much for your tolerance this morning, it has been good.

The meeting is adjourned.

[The committee adjourned at 11:03 a.m.]