HANSARD

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STANDING COMMITTEE ON HUMAN RESOURCES

Mr. David Wilson - Glace Bay (Chairman)

Hon. David Morse

Hon. Christopher d'Entremont

Mr. Chuck Porter

Mr. Charles Parker

Ms. Joan Massey

Mr. Percy Paris

Mr. Michel Samson

Ms. Diana Whalen

In Attendance:

Mrs. Darlene Henry

Legislative Committee Clerk

Mr. Gordon Hebb

Chief Legislative Counsel

HALIFAX, TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 27, 2007

STANDING COMMITTEE ON HUMAN RESOURCES

9:00 A.M.

CHAIRMAN

Mr. David Wilson (Glace Bay)

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay, can we call the meeting to order, please, albeit late? Just let me say at the outset that I would appreciate it from now on if members are not going to be here that the clerk be notified. I can guarantee you that the next meeting will start at nine o'clock and, if there's no quorum, it will be cancelled.

Now, let's move on. We're dealing with only appointments today - oh, first of all, let me let the members introduce themselves, for the record, please.

[The committee members introduced themselves.]

MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you, and we welcome a new member to our committee today. The member for Argyle joins us as a full-time member of the committee, replacing the member for Cape Breton West. So welcome, Mr. Minister.

Shall we deal first of all with the correspondence before we move on to the appointments? There is no correspondence, is that correct?

MRS. DARLENE HENRY (Legislative Committee Clerk): We have received no response to our . . .

MR. MICHEL SAMSON: Mr. Chair, could you update us on any correspondence that has been sent from you as Chair of this committee?

MR. CHAIRMAN: We sent two letters after the last meeting. One was to the Minister of Education, the Honourable Karen Casey, and the other was to the Minister of Community Services, the Honourable Judy Streatch, and to neither one of those letters have we received a reply.

Now there was also a question put forward, I'm not sure by what committee member, but it had to do with the number of replies that we had to the number of applications received since October 29^th, which was following the first run of advertising in the paper for the ABCs. The number from October 29^th to November 26^th inclusive was 87 applications - is that right? - and five were re-applications.

Mr. Porter.

MR. CHUCK PORTER: Just a quick question - having spent some time trying to put together part of that new advertising campaign - are those numbers up or down, maybe to the clerk?

[9:15 a.m.]

MR. CHAIRMAN: Well, let's ask the clerk, she has a better handle on that than I do.

MRS. HENRY: Actually, I'd have to go back and check that from the last ad, but it being less than a month, it seems pretty good to have 87 applications.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Morse.

HON. DAVID MORSE: Mr. Chair, I'm curious, how many openings were there for this ad?

MRS. HENRY: I believe something like 88 or maybe 89 vacancies for the . . .

MR. MORSE: I just take note that I think that's symptomatic of the difficulty that we have getting volunteers to step forward and apply. It does explain why sometimes we're faced with having to always reappoint incumbents or, in some cases, extend terms because there are just not enough interested people who want to serve.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Any further discussion on that?

All right, let's move on to the task at hand that we're here for, our appointments today, please, beginning with one that was previously deferred - for the Department of Community Services, for the Housing Authority of Cape Breton, the appointment of Mr. Frank Sutherland.

Mr. Samson.

MR. SAMSON: Mr. Chair, you did note that correspondence was sent out to the minister, the Honourable Judy Streatch, Minister of Community Services. Just for the record, that correspondence was dated November 7, 2007 - 20 days ago.

In your letter, Mr. Chair, you do state in the second paragraph:

"According to the board information charts a member is only allowed to serve two terms and has to sit out a third term before applying again to the board. Mr. Sutherland has stated that he has served two terms on the Cape Breton Regional Housing Authority Board.

The Standing Committee on Human Resources has unanimously agreed to defer Mr. Sutherland's application until the next committee meeting and until they receive an explanation from the Minister responsible as to why Mr. Sutherland's name came forward for consideration of a third term. As well the Standing Committee would like to know the number of applications that did come forward from applicants who applied to this board."

Mr. Chairman, as you indicated in the opening, we have not received the courtesy of a response to this correspondence from the minister - I'm not sure why that is the case - but once we look again at the Board Information Chart and as the authority for naming people to this particular board, which is the Cape Breton Island Housing Authority, it does say under "TERM" that there is a maximum of two consecutive three-year terms - ". . . must sit out a minimum of 1 term before eligible for reappointment."

Mr. Chair, our information shows as well that there were actually three applications that did come in for this position; therefore, it is not a case of there only being one person who has applied. As a result of that, it is clear that regardless of the minister's response on this, that this particular appointment would violate the authority that is set out for appointments to this particular committee.

In light of the fact that the minister has not provided us with any response and in light of the fact that it does continue to violate the authority for appointing people under this particular board, I would hereby move that this committee reject the application of Mr. Frank Sutherland to be reappointed to the Cape Breton Housing Authority, and that Mr. Sutherland's name not be brought forward for this committee until three years have passed from the date of the expiration of his appointment, and I would so move.

MS. DIANA WHALEN: I'll second that.

MR. CHAIRMAN: No seconder required. The motion is on the floor.

Mr. Morse, discussion.

MR. MORSE: Yes, to the preamble to the motion. Again I want to put on the record that during my time as Minister of Community Services we did appoint people for a third term, under extenuating circumstances, and my understanding is that is an internal

Department of Community Services policy, so I'm not sure that one could legitimately say that it violates our authority to make an appointment if the minister so chooses to waive that provision.

I'm not going to be voting for the member's motion, but I would be pleased to defer this until the minister answers the committee's letter.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Samson.

MR. SAMSON: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I would suspect that when the member was the Minister of Community Services that he would have provided the reasons why, or the extenuating circumstances under which they would have asked for this reappointment to be made.

Mr. Chair, as I mentioned at the last meeting, the minister's office was aware of this prior to our meeting when we met back in October, and we now have correspondence from you for 20 days that has not been responded to, and therefore I believe that we have given sufficient notice and sufficient opportunity to the minister to explain why we should be appointing someone contrary to the guidelines set out for this particular board. As a result of that, I do not believe that it is required for us to give any further deferral to this appointment.

MR. CHAIRMAN: If I may, let me ask Mr. Hebb for his opinion and clarification on this - is it pretty cut and dried in terms of the three-year appointment?

MR. GORDON HEBB: I had a look at the Act just before the meeting started and I saw nothing in the Act that precluded, that set out the rule. I didn't have an opportunity to check to see if there were any regulations or whether it isn't really policy, so I can't definitively say that it's not a question of law, I can only say it's not in the Act that I saw.

It's in the material that's being provided by the department, but what we don't know is whether it was Act, regulations, or policy. I believe I can say it was not Act - Mr. Morse has indicated he thought it was policy, but I can't definitively tell you that it's not in regulations somewhere.

MR. PORTER: My only concern with rejecting the application instead of deferring at this time would be availability. As the honourable member stated, there were a couple of other names there - do they meet the qualifications necessary for this committee and this appointment? It would be nice to know that before we move forward.

I would suggest that it be deferred, giving the opportunity for a response or to please provide another name for us on this committee to vote on.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Is there any further discussion? Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.

Well, that would make it a 3-3 tie, Mr. Hebb.

MR. HEBB: You have a vote.

MR. CHAIRMAN: I do have a vote but I didn't make that vote known, did I? So now I have a tie-breaking vote.

MR. HEBB: Yes, but you did regardless of whether you voted in the first instance.

MR. CHAIRMAN: In regard to - I understand the pressures that a Minister of the Crown is under and I understand how busy it can be. But I also understand that this is the Standing Committee on Human Resources for Agencies, Boards and Commissions and that it deserves a more prompt reply than what we've received right now. At least an acknowledgment that the letter was received should have been given to this committee, at the very least.

From what I've read in material provided to me, this clearly violates the fact that Mr. Sutherland should be appointed. I'll be glad to go back and review things on another date but for now, as far as I'm concerned, the appointment of Frank Sutherland should be rejected, and therefore I vote in favour of this motion.

The Department of Education, Cape Breton University - there are two names. Mr. Porter.

MR. PORTER: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I would so move Norma Boyd and James Kehoe as members of the Cape Breton University under the Department of Education.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Samson.

MR. SAMSON: Mr. Chair, for those of you who may not be aware, Mr. Kehoe is a native of Richmond County; in fact, a native of the beautiful community of Rocky Bay in Isle Madame. Mr. Kehoe is, as well, one of the first recipients of the Order of Nova Scotia and is a very accomplished businessman in the Cape Breton area and throughout Nova Scotia, and probably throughout the Maritimes.

Mr. Kehoe is also well-known for the leadership that he has shown, both as a businessman and as a community member and has been recognized - certainly both himself and his wife, Roma - for their charitable work as well and their generosity to a number of causes. I believe that Mr. Kehoe would certainly bring a great deal of experience and

leadership to the board of the Cape Breton University and I would be pleased to support this appointment.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Any further discussion? Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.

The motion is carried.

To Dalhousie College and University Board of Governors, there are five names up for appointment. Mr. d'Entremont.

HON. CHRISTOPHER D'ENTREMONT: I so move the names, as we see them there: William Black, Robert Chisholm, Dr. Jim Spatz, Lawrence Stordy and Bruce Towler, as a group, for Dalhousie University.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Any further discussion? Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.

The motion is carried.

The Department of Environment and Labour, the Round Table on Environment and Sustainable Prosperity. There are a lot of names there - I'm sorry, I haven't counted them. Mr. Morse.

MR. MORSE: Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair. I'd be pleased to move that Raymond Côté be appointed to the Round Table on Environment and Sustainable Prosperity and be designated the chair; also that Mark William Butler, Dr. Edith Callaghan, Michael Cox, Peggy Crawford, Gordon Dickie, Meinhard Doelle, Robert Grant, Leanne Hachey, Stephen Hawboldt, Ann Janega, Martin Janowitz, Tamara Lorincz, Peter Lund, Judith McMullen, Laurence Nason, William Simpkins, Stephen Talbot and Dwight Whynot be appointed as members of this board.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.

The motion is carried.

Mr. d'Entremont.

MR. D'ENTREMONT: Mr. Chair, I'm going to have to exclude myself from these next two as they pertain directly to my department.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. d'Entremont. For the Department of Health, the Advisory Commission on AIDS, there's one name put forward. Mr. Porter.

MR. PORTER: Mr. Chair, under the Department of Health, the Advisory Commission on AIDS, I move that Larry Baxter be the chair and member of that group.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.

The motion is carried.

Health Authority No. 6, the Pictou County District Health Authority. There's one name for appointment. Mr. Parker.

MR. CHARLES PARKER: Mr. Chair, I move the appointment of Lynne Sheridan as a member of the Pictou County District Health Authority, No. 6.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Parker.

Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.

The motion is carried.

The Municipal Finance Corporation. Mr. Samson.

MR. SAMSON: Thank you, Mr. Chair. It's a pleasure to put forward the name of Mr. Rick Farmer as Director of the Municipal Finance Corporation, Nova Scotia. As one will note from his resumé, Mr. Farmer has extensive experience in the finance area and has been a certified municipal manager for a significant period of time and is also a certified accountant. Therefore, I again am pleased to put forward his name as Director of the Municipal Finance Corporation.

MR. CHAIRMAN: If I may just add myself to that. Mr. Farmer has been involved with municipal administration in Cape Breton for 26 years, with a rather impeccable record. One of the fine check marks on his record includes, as one of the chief negotiators who brought the Cape Breton Oilers to Cape Breton, a very successful hockey franchise that operated in Cape Breton back in the late 1980s. Anyway, that's my two cents.

Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.

The motion is carried.

The next meeting of this committee will be again for agency, board and commission appointments on December 18^th. It begins at 9:00 a.m. - most of you will read that there, 9:00 a.m. (Laughter) - and it should run through until 11:00 a.m. or perhaps even earlier, depending on when we all show up.

The next meeting after that is January 29^th, at nine o'clock in the morning again, for appointments and we will also have a presenter from the Canadian Federation of Students at that time.

Any further discussion or new business that we should be dealing with?

If not, the meeting is adjourned. Thank you very much.

[The committee adjourned at 9:30 a.m.]