HANSARD

Printed and Published by Nova Scotia Hansard Reporting Services

STANDING COMMITTEE ON HUMAN RESOURCES

Mr. Ronald Chisholm (Chairman)

Mr. Brooke Taylor

Ms. Judy Streatch

Mr. Frank Corbett

Mr. Howard Epstein

Ms. Joan Massey

Mr. Keith Colwell

Mr. Leo Glavine

Ms. Diana Whalen

In Attendance:

Mrs. Darlene Henry

Legislative Committee Clerk

Mr. Gordon Hebb

Legislative Counsel

HALIFAX, TUESDAY, DECEMBER 20, 2005

STANDING COMMITTEE ON HUMAN RESOURCES

9:00 A.M.

CHAIRMAN

Mr. Ronald Chisholm

MR. CHAIRMAN: We will call the meeting to order. First of all I want to thank everybody for coming on short notice and doing this today, it's kind of unusual. I guess we will go around the table for introductions.

[The committee members introduced themselves.]

MR. CHAIRMAN: I guess we all know why we're here, it's to make an appointment to the Children and Family Services Act Advisory Committee. There is one appointment that we have to do.

Ms. Whalen.

MS. DIANA WHALEN: Mr. Chairman, if we are able today I would like to add an item on there and have us look at the agenda, so we could actually choose a witness for January and have more business for our January meeting. I thought it was a good opportunity since we were having an extra meeting today, to have a look at that list. I think everybody has a copy of the list of proposed witnesses that we had circulated more than a month ago.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Yes, I think at the November meeting we had talked about our agenda and our agenda setting. We had decided at that time that the January meeting would be for ABCs plus agenda setting for the year. I know we do have quite a lengthy list and the reason being, I guess, Christmas was coming, things were busy, we were in the House, so that's why we had determined that January would be our agenda-setting meeting. Is there any discussion on that?

MR. KEITH COLWELL: I would like to suggest that we pick one witness for the January meeting, and then perhaps in January we could set further guests or witnesses to come before the committee so they could start in February.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Brooke.

MR. BROOKE TAYLOR: Just a question for clarification. The list before us, we moved from the reason we came in here today to this item right now, so I guess we are going to discuss it. Is that the thought, Mr. Chairman?

MR. CHAIRMAN: Yes, we can discuss it.

MR. TAYLOR: The list that the member is referring to, is that the witness list that's in front of us?

MR. CHAIRMAN: Yes.

MR. TAYLOR: May I ask through you, Mr. Chairman, is that list complete, has the clerk had feedback from all the caucuses?

MRS. DARLENE HENRY (Legislative Committee Clerk): No, I haven't. This list was the original listing that was put together back in 2003, so it's quite an old list, shall we say.

MR. CHAIRMAN: And that's what we asked, too, at the November meeting, that the caucuses submit new lists to go over.

MR. TAYLOR: I was just wanting clarification, that's all. I wasn't sure if I misheard something or missed the motion last week or whatever it was.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Howard.

MR. HOWARD EPSTEIN: I think we're still discussing whether to even add this item to the agenda. My problem would be, I think, indeed, as was identified, we're still going to try to generate more items for consideration. The other point, of course, is that we are here for a focused reason. The only basis on which, I think, we'd be prepared to support even adding this to the agenda would be if we could look forward to when, 10 minutes later, we get to talk about it and think that we can fairly quickly agree on just one item. If it was a question of trying to rank all the items, as we sometimes do, and try to pick out five or 10, that wouldn't be different, but I gather from the head gestures and hand gestures across the way that the idea is, indeed, that they're only looking at trying to pick one.

MR. CHAIRMAN: That's why we went to the January meeting so we could take two hours and do that.

MR. EPSTEIN: Right. I would be prepared to support it if we took a whack at trying to just find one. If we can't do that fairly quickly, then I wouldn't be keen on doing it, but on that basis, we could try to do that. I guess I would support adding it to the agenda on the basis that we just try to pick one for today that we could look forward to maybe including in the January meeting.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Ms. Streatch.

MS. JUDY STREATCH: Mr. Chairman, you know for goodwill around the table, I will go along with the will of the table. I would like to say that I came here today with one specific agenda and that was to look after the Community Services committee and get that clarified and get that out of the way. I understood from our meeting in November that we would be discussing witnesses in January. For the record, I will support the will of the table but I came here today with one specific agenda and that was to satisfy the Community Services committee.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay, maybe we'll deal with that one specific agenda item and we'll come back to this item after we do that. Is it agreed?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: It is agreed.

MR. CHAIRMAN: We do have one appointment to the Children and Family Services Act Advisory Committee. We do have one name that has come forward.

Mr. Taylor.

MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Chairman, to the Children and Family Services Act Advisory Committee, I so move Valerie Hill as a member.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Any discussion?

Mr. Epstein.

MR. EPSTEIN: I just wanted to note that in looking at the CV that we've been given and in making some inquiries about the nominee, it seems to me that indeed we do have, in the case of Ms. Hill, someone who does exactly fit the requirements of the legislation for this slot on the committee. She seems to be someone whose parenting skills were called into question in the past. I understand she has since then worked very actively and diligently in organizing other parents in her area of the province. I gather her work has been very productive, I have every reason to think that she'll be a good member of this committee.

I'm very happy to see that there is someone who has been nominated now in this category who, I think, really fits both the letter and the spirit of what it is that has been built into the structure of the committee. I only want to add that I hope if we do confirm her nomination today that the committee will get up and running as soon as possible, and get on with its work.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Any further discussion? Are you ready for the question? Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.

The motion is carried.

The other issue of the witness for January. Mr. Glavine.

MR. LEO GLAVINE: I just wanted it to be on the record that it was in November that, in fact, I questioned the gap in witnesses coming to this committee. I had found certainly in the previous two years that it was a very valuable way of getting good, solid information that could be helpful in policy development for us all. I think that we were a bit negligent in one of the functions of this committee, in not being perhaps a little quicker in getting witnesses here.

That being said, I know we had agreed upon January, but as I started to reflect upon it that meant that then there would be nobody here until February, and I felt that three-month period was one in which at least one of those months after Christmas we could start one of our primary areas of responsibility as a committee. With that, Mr. Chairman, I think we have a suggestion from Diana.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Ms. Whalen.

MS. WHALEN: As Leo was saying, I think it was just the urgency of getting something down on the agenda because the last meeting that we actually had a witness was July, and that hadn't struck us, I don't think, until we actually looked back over the record of our past meetings. It was July 26^th, I believe, although perhaps Darlene could correct us, but we had university presidents here at the end of July, and that's a long time for the committee not to hear anybody. Our meetings are fairly brief and there's a cost to hosting these meetings, to having us come together and have Hansard, and all of the other support that goes along with it. I just think it's a good idea that we keep inviting groups to come, there is no shortage of items that can be looked at.

As I say, I'm less concerned about which one we choose, as getting going. I think my colleague may have a suggestion specifically. We hadn't looked so much at them, as well, but there are some really good items here on the agenda. As the Education Critic, I'm anxious to hear from different groups involved with education and those issues, and I know

there are others on this committee as well, from all Parties, who are very interested in education.

[9:15 a.m.]

I would like to propose today that we look at the third one on the list under Education, which is the school construction projects. That called for department officials to come and talk about the Capital Construction Program. That's my recommendation.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Ms. Massey.

MS. JOAN MASSEY: I certainly don't have a problem with that. I was on the school board and certainly that's a big issue around the province, so it's not a problem. There's always lots to talk about on that one. You can't hear me? (Interruptions)

Having been on the Halifax Regional School Board, I know that's a big issue. I was actually on the Capital Construction Committee for the board. There's no limit to the things we could talk about on that topic, so I don't have a problem with that. It will just get the ball rolling and move us along.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Taylor.

MR. TAYLOR: I know it doesn't make a whole lot of difference, but again I would reiterate that we had agreed, as a committee, around this table, that our next meeting for organization would be January 31^st. I think that's well documented. I think I've just learned that we are bringing somebody in as a witness for the sake of bringing somebody in because we haven't had anybody in for a while. In fact, there was some comparing of notes to decide, at the eleventh hour, who we're going to bring in.

I can remember, for years, sitting on this committee, when nobody came in, and it was still quite functional. So I will not be supporting bringing somebody in for the sake of somebody getting on the agenda. I just don't feel that would be appropriate. Yes, there have been gaps and there have been gaps in a lot of committees over time, but we did have an agreement, around this table, every single individual MLA agreed, and now we've done a complete flip. I won't be supporting it, just on that principle.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Ms. Whalen.

MS. WHALEN: If I could, I don't think it's a complete flip. I think perhaps we weren't paying attention that that would take us to January 31^st before anybody was even lined up to come in. Then you would be looking at very few months left in the year to get the work done. I think the purpose of this committee goes well beyond just rubber-stamping all the applications that come through from the departments. I realize that may sound a little bit

harsh, but I feel you come in here, you travel in, we don't see all the names that are provided, we are just given the ones that are recommended, the meetings are very quick, and people travel a long distance. Many of you travel to come to these meetings.

I think that the purpose of this committee is also to look at culture, to look at labour issues and to look at education, and to allow many of the groups in the communities to come out and to speak and to be heard here. So I think we have an obligation to keep this moving, in terms of having witnesses come to the committee. I think it was really more of an awakening to realize that that many months had passed and it was time that we got somebody on the agenda. I would appreciate the support of members, in having a witness lined up for January so that we can do more work here. Thank you.

MR. CHAIRMAN: We do have one you have indicated you want brought in in January, but I guess I have to concur with what Mr. Taylor says that we did have an agreement here. I guess maybe we've all been a little lax, if that's the case, but over the last few months we've all been very busy and we've all had different things that we've had to do. That's the reason for determining that January was going to be our organizational meeting. Having said that, Mr. Epstein.

MR. EPSTEIN: I think we should be clear that it's still implied that there will be an organizational meeting in January and that the farthest we're going today is to try to choose one item. One has been suggested, and I'm certainly happy to support . . .

MR. CHAIRMAN: So what you're suggesting then is that the witness is going to be here for maybe an hour and 15 minutes.(Interruptions)

MR. EPSTEIN: Or an hour and a half. Then we can deal with the agenda after that . . .

MR. CHAIRMAN: The meeting has been scheduled from 9:00 a.m. to 11:00 a.m.

MR. EPSTEIN: . . . or, as was just suggested, maybe the meeting will go a little longer than the two hours. I have no problem with changing our agenda slightly for today and picking one item, but one item only, recognizing that we're going to be setting a longer agenda, as planned, in January. The worst position, I guess, we would be in is maybe we're turning our minds to an item that might not have ended up first on the list in a more lengthy scrutiny of a different list, but I don't see that that's a big detriment. So I'm certainly prepared to support, first, amending today's agenda to add an item; and second, to support the school construction for January, if we can find witnesses.

MR. CHAIRMAN: From my experience on this committee, it takes a little bit of time when we're setting an agenda to go through that list. We did ask for any new ones to come forth, that's what our January meeting was going to be. If that's the wish of the committee, that's what we will do.

Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.

The motion is carried.

That concludes our meeting for today. We will meet on January 31^st.

[The committee adjourned at 9:21 a.m.]