HALIFAX, TUESDAY, OCTOBER 21, 2003
STANDING COMMITTEE ON HUMAN RESOURCES
9:00 A.M.
CHAIRMAN
Mr. Ronald Chisholm
MR. CHAIRMAN: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to our meeting of the Standing Committee on Human Resources. First we will go around the table and get everybody to give their name for the people in the booth.
[The committee members introduced themselves.]
MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay, everybody has been introduced and we will carry on. The mandate of our committee is to deal with matters of education, culture, labour and the status of women. We are going to do a bit of an orientation today. We have David Nurse and Shealagh McGrath. David is the Assistant to the Secretary of the Executive Council and Shealagh is the Agencies, Boards and Commissions Database Coordinator. So, if you want to start.
MR. DAVID NURSE: Good morning, Mr. Chairman, committee members. My name is David Nurse, I'm Assistant to the Secretary of the Executive Council. Shealagh and I are here this morning to give you a presentation on the ABC process, but particularly with respect to the paper flow from the application process all the way through to the making of an Order in Council. We will try to be as brief as possible. I know you have other business to attend to this morning and we will also try to answer any questions that you have.
I have circulated a handout. It looks like this. It just has a little flow chart and the subsequent pages are a list of agencies, boards and commissions of government. Does everyone have a copy of that? Do we need any extra? Okay, I guess I will start with the advertising process for agencies, boards and commissions.
1
As some of you may know, advertisements are placed semi-annually, April and October, in newspapers across the province - The Chronicle-Herald, The Daily News, the Cape Breton Post - and the advertisements are coordinated by Darlene Henry in the Legislative Committees Office and Shealagh in our office to ensure that the ads reflect all of the upcoming vacancies. That advertising policy was set down by the committee actually in 1998. I think it works well. We do an advance request to departments about six months before the advertisement is placed to enquire about upcoming vacancies so that the ads reflect those vacancies. It's coordinated well with our office and with Darlene and it's nice to put a face to a name this morning, we've been working with Darlene for about two years and we haven't met in person.
The advertisement is out there to the public and we do get calls and field public enquiries about the advertisement and about the application process. Applications are received in the Executive Council office where they are logged in our database by Shealagh. They are kept there as active applications for three years and an acknowledgement letter is sent to each applicant to that effect, acknowledging their application and informing them that it will be kept on record for three years.
The applications are then forwarded to the responsible department, depending on the agency, board and commission. At that point they're in the department and when a vacancy arises in the department, the applications are screened by the individual departmental screening panels. Those screening panels are made up of laypersons and departmental staff - public servants. The laypersons are volunteers and the function of that committee is to screen applications to ensure that the applicants are qualified, meet the qualifications set down at the relevant legislation and also any other position profiles that have been developed for the departments for those agencies, boards and commissions. That screening panel presents a list of qualified applicants to the minister from which the minister makes his or her recommendation.
Once that recommendation has been made, the department paperwork is prepared for submission to Cabinet and that is in the form of a report and recommendation. The report and recommendation is sent to Executive Council where it is again logged in our database. It is examined for legal form and authority by the Clerk of the Executive Council and assuming that check is fine and there are no concerns about the form and authority of the documents, the item is placed on the Cabinet agenda for the appropriate meeting.
After the recommendation has been approved by Cabinet, that person's name and the associated documents are forwarded to this committee and then if approved by this committee, an OIC - Order in Council - or a ministerial order is issued and if the appointments are not approved by this committee, the supporting documentation is returned to the department with a letter of explanation from Executive Council explaining that this committee did not approve the appointment.
The documents that are attached, I'm sure that you've seen them from the materials that you have, are the Form "A" which was proclaimed in the Legislature - it's part of the House Rules - and also the Guidelines which were designed by the Human Resources Committee and can be amended by the committee. The Guidelines were designed to further clarify questions raised on Form "A", so I think you have probably seen a number of examples of that in the material that you have today.
So those are the documents that you have received and this committee obviously reviews the applications and approves or does not approve the recommended applicant, then it comes back to the Executive Council and, as I have said, the Order in Council or the ministerial order is completed or if the applicant is not approved, the material and supporting document is returned to the department.
I think that flow chart more or less explains to you all of those steps. Those were all my initial comments. Shealagh, did you have anything? Did I miss anything?
MS. SHEALAGH MCGRATH: No, that was pretty good.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much. Any questions from any of the members?
Mr. Corbett.
MR. FRANK CORBETT: Mr. Chairman, what happens at the point when, if an applicant is rejected at this level and goes back to the minister, are we supposed to give it to him with direction or is it up to their discretion on what to do, resubmit that name?
MR. NURSE: I think that there are, if I'm correct, two scenarios. When it comes to this committee, if it is stood, then I believe the item stays on the agenda of the committee. If it goes back to our office with the committee's order that the person is not approved, then a letter to that effect will go back to the minister saying that the Human Resources Committee has not approved this applicant and I assume that the minister would then either rectify any concerns about that application, if it was a technical problem with the application. Or if it was a person that was deemed unacceptable, then I assume the minister would come forward with another name. Shealagh, do you have any comments on that?
MS. MCGRATH: Yes, I think that's the way it is.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Any further questions? Well, if not, Mr. Nurse and Ms. McGrath, we appreciate you coming in this morning and giving us this overview. Thank you for coming.
The next item on our agenda is the Appointments to Agencies, Boards and Commissions. We have a few, I guess.
We will start off with the appointments to the Department of Agriculture and Fisheries, Farm Loan Board of Nova Scotia.
MR. CECIL O'DONNELL: For the Farm Loan Board, I so move Stephen Healy as a member.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
The next one is for the Department of Education, Board of Governors for Acadia University.
MR. CORBETT: Can we do them en bloc, Mr. Chairman?
MR. CHAIRMAN: We can do them en bloc, if that's the wish of the committee.
Is it agreed?
It is agreed.
We will do them en bloc.
MR. O'DONNELL: For Acadia University's Board of Governors, I so move George Bishop, John Carter and David Fountain as members.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
The next one is the Department of Health, Board of Dispensing Opticians.
MR. GARY HINES: Can I do this en bloc?
MR. CHAIRMAN: You can do them en bloc if that's the wish of the committee.
Is it agreed?
It is agreed.
MR. HINES: Mr. Chairman, for the Board of Dispensing Opticians, I so move Marlene Bayers, John Butler, Annette Knight and Robert MacLeod as members.
[9:15 a.m.]
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
The Provincial Health Council.
MR. O'DONNELL: Are we moving these en bloc, Mr. Chairman?
MR. CHAIRMAN: We are moving them en bloc. I guess we will move all of them en bloc, if that is the wish of the committee.
Is it agreed?
It is agreed.
MR. O'DONNELL: Mr. Chairman, for the Provincial Health Council, I so move Harry J. Churchill, Marina Horrocks, Catherine A. Randall and Marion White as members.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
The Office of Health Promotion.
MR. HINES: Mr. Chairman, for the Nova Scotia Boxing Authority, I so move Ronald V. Clarke as a member.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
Department of Justice.
MR. O'DONNELL: Mr. Chairman, for the Department of Justice, Municipal Board of Police Commissioners, Springhill, Cumberland County, I so move Brenda O'Brien as a member.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
Department of Natural Resources.
MR. HINES: Mr. Chairman, for the Department of Natural Resources, Shubenacadie Canal Commission, I so move James Harrison and Maurice E. Lloyd as commissioners.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
I believe that concludes our list of appointments for ABCs.
Committee Business - Nomination of Vice-Chairman.
MR. O'DONNELL: Mr. Chairman, I would put forth the name of Russell MacKinnon as Vice-Chairman.
MR. HINES: I second that.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Are there any other nominations? Hearing none (Interruptions)
[The motion is carried.]
MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. MacKinnon, you are the Vice-Chairman of the Human Resources Committee.
Agenda setting - potential witnesses. We have had a letter from Mr. MacKinnon regarding bringing in some witnesses for Education, Culture and that sort of thing, part of our mandate. Mr. MacKinnon.
MR. RUSSELL MACKINNON: If I could speak to that memo, Mr. Chairman, as we know, part of the mandate of the Human Resources Committee is to examine issues under the Departments of Education, Culture and Labour, the departments and various ministries. We felt it was prudent to submit a list of potential witnesses that perhaps the other two
caucuses would consider, the PC caucus and the NDP caucus. We are hoping that maybe the PC caucus and the NDP caucus, equally, would also have a list of potential witnesses. I know not every meeting we have is related to the appointments of individuals to the agencies, boards and commissions, so I thought it would be very fruitful to pursue deliberations on some of these issues. So I put them out for the approbation and consideration of the committee.
MR. CHAIRMAN: It isn't something that has been done the past number of years by the committee, bringing in witnesses.
MR. MACKINNON: It hasn't?
MR. CHAIRMAN: It has?
MR. MACKINNON: I don't know.
MR. CHAIRMAN: No, it hasn't, not in the four years I've been here.
MRS. DARLENE HENRY (Legislative Committee Clerk): Actually the last time anybody has been here would have been April 16, 2002. We brought in a lawyer, Christene Hirschfeld from Boyne Clarke, to explain to the committee intellectual property rights. That was on the heels of the Culture issue that the committee was looking at, actually for some time. They started a Culture issue way back in 2000, and they brought in various witnesses, sporadically, over that time. Towards the end of it is when they brought in the lawyer to explain the intellectual property rights of the music industry and the drama industry - you know, the arts industries.
MR. CHAIRMAN: The NDP caucus hasn't submitted anything.
MR. CORBETT: Not as yet, Mr. Speaker, but certainly it's our position that we would support the Liberal caucus in bringing witnesses forward because I think it's certainly within the purview of this committee to do so. If it's their desire to bring witnesses forward, we will be supportive of that issue and to get access to these people.
MR. MACKINNON: Mr. Chairman, I would move that we consider all six of these. The order of priority, we're open to the chairman and the coordination through the clerk of the committee and a time frame that we can work around.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Will the NDP caucus - I imagine our caucus may have some as well to submit.
MR. CORBETT: Certainly we will be looking at that aspect of bringing forward witnesses.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Maybe if you get some together, you could get it to Darlene and Darlene can get it to me and we will sit down and figure out when we can . . .
MR. MACKINNON: It's similar to the Public Accounts Committee where the clerk would generally try to coordinate something. It's a scheduling issue and it's very important because not all witnesses would be able to come on a certain day or time frame. If we could, for the sake of symmetry, for lack of a better phrase, accept these six, open to the consideration that other caucuses may have priorities, but at least it's a starting point.
MR. CORBETT: Yes, and I think with that in mind, in talking about scheduling for committees, another committee where we call a lot of witnesses is Economic Development and certainly I would see that as being a similar model we would use here. The set-up I would like to see is our other business around the ABCs and then move into our witnesses, whatever is most appropriate for the business of the day.
MR. CHAIRMAN: So I guess the issue is whether we accept this list as submitted by the Liberal Party, with any amendments to come from the two other Parties.
MR. CORBETT: Subject to additions.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Subject to additions.
MR. MACKINNON: I so move.
MR. CHAIRMAN: You have all heard the motion. Are you ready for the question? Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
MR. MACKINNON: I don't believe there's any need to read into the record the six of them at this point.
MR. CHAIRMAN: No, I don't think. The clerk has a copy of them. Okay, our next meeting date. (Interruptions) Ms. Whalen.
MS. DIANA WHALEN: Mr. Chairman, just on the next meeting date, you've set it for November 25th and I'm wondering if we have more work that we're going to be . . .
MR. CHAIRMAN: Yes, that's what we're just discussing.
MS. WHALEN: You're just discussing it, that's good, because I thought there isn't enough time if we wait until November 25th.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Could you leave that with the clerk and myself and we can try to come up with some time frames as to how we can work this in.
MR. MACKINNON: That's fair enough.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Because generally the last Tuesday of the month is the day that we do the ABCs and from what I understand, some of the agenda . . .
MR. CORBETT: You have such a capable deputy chairman. We have no problems about that.
MR. CHAIRMAN: If you leave it with the clerk and myself, we will come up with a game plan, but the ABC's meeting will be on November 25th. So we will gear that up. Is there any further business?
MR. CORBETT: I move adjournment, Mr. Chairman.
MR. CHAIRMAN: The motion is to adjourn.
The meeting is adjourned.
[The committee adjourned at 9:25 a.m.]