HALIFAX, THURSDAY, APRIL 22, 2004
STANDING COMMITTEE ON ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT
9:00 A.M.
CHAIRMAN
Mr. Russell MacKinnon
MR. CHAIRMAN: I will call this meeting to order. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. My name is Russell MacKinnon. I'm the Chairman of the Economic Development Committee. Today we have before us representatives from Richmond County to make a presentation on a number of related issues. With us, representing the Municipality of the County of Richmond, is Warden Gail Johnson; the Chief Administrative Officer, Mr. Louis Digout; and Mr. Alan MacDonald who is the Senior Economic Development Officer for the Municipality of the County of Richmond.
The format is you can have up to about 20 minutes for some opening remarks and then we will open up for a question and answer period. If you feel like you need a little more time, I'm sure committee members will extend the courtesy. Before I start, I would ask individual members if they would kind enough to introduce themselves starting with my colleague, Mr. Chisholm, on the left.
[The committee members introduced themselves.]
MR. CHAIRMAN: Warden, the floor is yours.
MS. GAIL JOHNSON: Mr. Chairman, honourable members, ladies and gentlemen and if there are members of the press here, good morning as well. I'm Gail Johnson, the Warden for the Municipality of the County of Richmond. I extend our thanks and our appreciation for your most kind invitation to be here today to discuss some items and activities that are pertinent to Richmond County.
1
Please allow me to introduce Mr. Louis Digout, our CAO for the municipality. Mr. Digout will be providing a regional overview of Richmond County. Also I am pleased to introduce Mr. Alan MacDonald, the director for our Richmond County oil and gas office. He will be speaking about our oil and gas industry and basically Point Tupper industries in general. Now I will pass it over to our CAO who will give an overview of Richmond County and our communities.
MR. LOUIS DIGOUT: Thank you very much. I appreciate the opportunity to give you a little information on our community. We are located on the southern coast of Cape Breton. We were incorporated in 1879. We share this 125th Anniversary with several other rural municipal units that were also incorporated by that same Act of the Legislature. Our rural municipal unit extends from Point Tupper on the west, which is noteworthy for the heavy industrial park that's located there, to Fourchu on the Cape Breton County boundary. Our population is diverse, including descendants of the Scottish, Irish, French and Native communities. We're very proud to be one of the four federally-designated Acadian communities in Nova Scotia.
Our corporate organization is healthy; however, we do experience all of the - I call them - modern problems of rural Nova Scotia: out-migration of youth, high unemployment and declining infrastructure. Our current population is 10,225. It has decreased steadily for the past 30 years. Table 1, which follows, gives an idea of the census statistics for the past 20 or 25 years for the Strait area. You can see that Richmond County, Port Hawkesbury, Inverness County, Guysborough County and Victoria have all experienced population decline, while Antigonish County has experienced a slight growth.
Much of the business news regarding Richmond County is focused on Point Tupper, but our county is also a hotbed of community economic development activity, particularly on Isle Madame. We received regional and national recognition for the work of some of our community groups. I would like to give you some examples of those.
Development Isle Madame arose from the fishing crisis in the mid-1990s. It has partnered with the private sector, all levels of governments, to undertake projects as diverse as community housing to fish farming. Tourism is now a high priority. They are undertaking infrastructure projects targeted at two high-yield sectors of the industry, eco-tourists and cultural tourists. Their current projects include the Cape Auget Eco-Trail and the Arichat Waterfront Revitalization Project.
There's another strong community called Petit-de-Grat, which Mr. Samson would be very familiar with, he hails from there. They've achieved extraordinary success. Petit-de-Grat was the community, in 1993-94, that lost a major employer, a fish plant, 350 jobs. They've succeeded in replacing many of those jobs through innovative partnerships. A couple of those are le Centre la Picasse, an educational and cultural centre. They house, among other things, Collège de l'Acadie, the municipal library, various government offices and several
community/cultural facilities. We've just hired one of their employees. Just loosely, in a meeting on Monday, she counted 35 people who presently work there. So, it's been quite successful.
The harbour continues to be the focal point for their initiatives. Two recent projects involve shipbuilding and repair, it's called Mouse Island, and a major upgrading of the harbour infrastructure by the newly-created Harbour Port Authorities. These projects, in themselves, involve a capital investment of more than $12 million. The employment possibilities are unlimited.
The mainland of the county is also experiencing community and commercial growth. St. Peters has many tourist-type facilities, including a major marina expansion, recently. Our council has recently partnered with our RDA to hire staff to specifically try to further foster community economic development activity on the mainland of the county, I suppose to try to mirror the success that's been achieved in Isle Madame.
Our council assumes a role in providing infrastructure support to our communities. We see that in partnerships as a legitimate role for municipal government. Many of these activities are traditional. We invested heavily in water and sewer systems and the such in the past number of years, but recently our projects have extended to new areas that we think are necessary to respond to what we call current realities.
For example, some of our current projects are sponsorship of a broadband infrastructure project where in rural areas the density is not such that you can attract the private sector in without assistance. I would like to note that that was the only project in the Maritimes that was highlighted in the recent report by the National Broadband Selection Committee. We have taken a look at the problems that we're experiencing with well water and so on in rural areas and we're trying to respond to those and also to development pressures by instituting waste water management districts and private sector partnerships for land assembly. In the Halifax area you're striving to control those, in Richmond we have to work with the private sector sometimes to initiate those.
We incorporated last year Nova Scotia's first tourism marketing co-operative and it was required in order to respond to the lack of a well-established tourism sector and, of course, the establishment of the oil and gas office in Point Tupper is something else that's unique I think to municipal government. It involves a partnership with the feds and it was created to respond to opportunities that we see in the offshore and with our port, with the Strait of Canso port.
We take pride in our community, but we are strong believers in partnerships. Some examples are Enterprise Cape Breton which has been a strong partner of our municipal unit and our communities. Provincial departments and agencies work with us on common problems. One of the ones that's consuming a lot of our time in the past year is a project led
by the Department of Health which will replace a nursing home in St. Peters - it's about a $15 million project. So in a rural area that's something that's very significant. Besides the service that it delivers to 75 people needing that type of care, it also employs about 100 people, but perhaps our greatest allies and, hopefully, Mr. Chisholm will support us here, are our municipal neighbours.
Despite the attention paid sometimes in the media to negative news, we take pride in regional problem solving in the Strait area. We believe strongly in inter-municipal delivery when it makes sense. We, ourselves, have assumed leadership roles in the formation of most regional groups that presently exist in the Strait area, including the Strait Area Mayors and Wardens three years ago. We strive to participate and support the efforts of our municipal neighbours through advocacy, political support, and those are cheap, but also financial support.
So we would like to give you a few examples of the kind of stuff that are straight from our budget for this past year and those expenditures include everything from a regional planning commission, which delivers services much more economically than we could individually, to economic development services. I see the name Port Hawkesbury in there several times. So we purchase the services from the town, fire, we help them out with their pool. We gave them a donation for the Civic Centre. We jointly own an industrial park and so if it makes sense, we do these things. These expenditures on this year's budget total about $3 million and that's about 30 per cent of our total tax levy. So it's significant. Warden Johnson, that concludes my brief overview of our community, thank you very much.
MS. JOHNSON: Thank you, Mr. Digout. Mr. Chairman, before proceeding to the report on the heavy industrial park in Richmond County, I wish to address just a couple of issues.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Sure.
MS. JOHNSON: Firstly, I want to stress the co-operation and work carried out by the Strait Area Mayors and Wardens group. Through the Mayors and Wardens Committee we have realized economic development opportunities, as Mr. Digout mentioned, of regional cooperation. Together we are advocating the upgrade of Route 4, better communication between the province and ourselves with respect to transfer of lands and we're also moving forward with a port master plan.
[9:15 a.m.]
Secondly, I'd like to stress the importance of completing the 100-Series route from River Tillard to Sydney. It has been designated as part of the national highway system. The condition of the roads in Cape Breton has always been an issue for residents as well as for industry. Route 4 from River Tillard to Sydney, which is part of the national highway system,
is in the worst condition of any highway on the Island. The eastern side of Cape Breton and particularly Richmond County are underdeveloped in the tourism industry. This stretch of the Bras d'Or Lakes scenic drive has almost no tourism infrastructure from St. Peters through to Sydney River. Many tourists who travel it one way refuse to travel it again.
This summer we will see increased traffic on Route 4 during the le Congrès Mondial Acadien 2004. Richmond County is one of the area's designated Acadian regions. Attracting business development along Route 4 is hampered as well by the condition of the road. Without improvement to Route 4 development will continue to lag behind the rest of the Island. The provincial Tourism Department and Enterprise Cape Breton Corporation both have a goal of doubling our tourism revenues within the next decade. Without major improvements to Route 4, our side of the Island encompassing the Cape Breton Regional Municipality as well as Richmond County will not be able to be part of this growth.
Right now I'll ask Mr. MacDonald to give you an overview of our efforts to promote Point Tupper Industrial Park and the Strait of Canso itself.
MR. ALAN MACDONALD: Thank you, Warden Johnson. Point Tupper Heavy Industrial Park has the largest concentration of heavy industry in Nova Scotia. Until construction of the Canso Causeway in 1955, Point Tupper was a relatively isolated place, however, the construction of the Causeway gave the already deep Strait of Canso the added advantage of being ice-free. The Strait of Canso is now recognized as one of the better industrial ports in the world.
In 1959, the Swedish pulp and paper company, Stora, announced plans for a major pulp and paper mill at Point Tupper. Immediately following Stora's announcement several other major companies announced plans, including Georgia Pacific, which is the gypsum facility; the Gulf Oil oil refinery, and in the mid-1980s a heavy water plant was built to supply heavy water to the nuclear industry.
While the heavy water plant and the oil refinery are no longer operational, the projects have left a legacy of infrastructure at Point Tupper. Infrastructure such as a power plant; a 150 megawatt power plant was built at Point Tupper, it's a coal-fired plant. Buildings and warehouses, the remaining buildings of the Atomic Energy of Canada Limited have been purchased by local investors and are rented to local companies for warehousing, light fabrication and storage.
Thirdly, the deep water dock and storage tanks previously owned by Gulf Oil were purchased by Statia Terminals which use these facilities for storage of hydrocarbons. It has the largest storage facility of hydrocarbons on the East Coast of North America.
Development momentum at Point Tupper took off again in the 1990s when United States Gypsum, or USG, built a 160,000-square foot wallboard plant adjacent to the Georgia Pacific Gypsum trans-shipment facility. Again, Stora announced plans to expand and invest $750 million to construct a super-calendared paper plant at Point Tupper, the largest of its kind in the world. Incidentally, super-calendared paper is the glossy, shiny paper that we see in magazines and in catalogues. In 1999, the plant was opened on schedule. It should be noted, the majority of labour was supplied through the Cape Breton Construction and Trades Council.
While all the preceding industrial activity has been impressive, the development of the Sable Island natural gas fields is a milestone in the economic development of the province. Point Tupper, located 177 kilometres from Sable is well positioned to take advantage of this activity. The first tangible benefits are already evident. In 1999, Sable Offshore Energy completed the construction of a gas fractionation facility for natural gas liquids. Located adjacent to Statia Terminals, the fractionation plant processes the natural liquids from the Goldboro gas plant into butane, propane and pantanes plus. Installation of the pipelines under the Strait of Canso also bring natural gas to Point Tupper. The Stora Enso has use of natural gas and the gas line also extends to the USG plant.
A review of Point Tupper's development history reveals several key factors. The Strait of Canso is a world-class harbour, with year-round deep water access. The Strait is on the great circle navigation route from Europe to New England. The area has a large quantity of natural resources: forest products, gypsum, a good supply of water for industry. There is a well-educated and able workforce in the region. Lastly, Richmond County's low tax rate provides low operating costs for industry. The tax rate is $1.36 per $100 of assessment.
If I might just review the industry briefly - I don't know how well we can see this. The industries are presently located in this area of Point Tupper. This is the Town of Port Hawkesbury, Inverness County, this is Point Tupper and Bear Head. Stora Enso, subsequent to its establishment in 1959 and its expansion in 1999, also built a storage facility, recently completed at a cost of $16 million; 500 people are employed full-time at Stora Enso. This does not include the spinoff industries of forestry and trucking.
The Nova Scotia Power facility is a 150-megawatt plant. They are in the process of developing a marine terminal and a land-based coal transfer facility. They are building a wharf right here at a cost of between $15 million and $25 million; it will be available for use early next year. The USG facility that was closed in 2002 is currently in negotiation with private investors to re-open the plant. It is hoped that before too many months pass, the plant will be revitalized, retooled and will again resume manufacture of gyproc wallboard and employ up to 90 people. Georgia Pacific, which is located here in the west end, continues to transship gypsum products to the American East Coast.
Statia Terminals, which is the old Gulf Oil Refinery, continues to own and operate the facilities at Point Tupper. Statia can accommodate the world's largest ships. Can I just direct your attention here to the off-loading dock at Statia, if you can see that. The water on the outside of that berth is 105-feet deep. It can accommodate the largest ship that sails our seas. Approximately five ships a month come in to off-load product on the supertankers and then to load for coastal communities and smaller tankers.
Statia Terminals has the capacity to store 7.4 million barrels of hydrocarbons. In conversation with Paul Crissman, the President of Statia, he advises me he has no more room for additional product.
Statia is well positioned to participate in Canada's emerging oil and gas development projects. We expect in time they'll develop their salt caverns for storage for LNG, perhaps, or compressed natural gas.
Subsequent to 1999, the municipality established an oil and gas office. Federal funding was secured for a three-year period. The Richmond County oil and gas office was established in the year 2003, to promote Point Tupper and Bear Head as a site for energy-related development. The office works co-operatively with development departments and agencies in the area. Co-operation includes developing partnerships for studies that will further advance the area for oil and gas development. The Richmond County oil and gas office will take leadership in promoting oil and gas development in the Strait region.
We have established a management committee for our office. The members include the warden of the municipality; Louis Digout is the CAO; Richie Cotton, municipal council; Ken Montgomery from Enterprise Cape Breton: Archie Collins, manager at Nova Scotia Power; Paul Boutlier, Nova Scotia Business Inc.; and Bernie MacDonald from the Department of Energy.
I think I'm getting some messages that my time is up.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Perhaps, what we'll do is, we may be able to cover some of the additional material, so that everyone will have an opportunity to partake in the rather detailed report that you have here, which seems to embody quite a bit of positive news. We'll open up the floor for questions and maybe we'll save a few minutes at the end for closing remarks. First on my list is Mr. Taylor.
MR. BROOKE TAYLOR: Mr. Chairman, I'd like to thank the guests for that very comprehensive and wonderful presentation. I've always been impressed with the amount of activity that takes place in Richmond County and I guess more especially the Strait area. There's a number of activities that are certainly of interest to many of us.
During the presentation you spoke of the land-based storage facility for coal that's being developed and expected to open next Spring. I was just curious, where do the proprietors expect that the majority of that business will come from?
MR. ALAN MACDONALD: For the use of the coal?
MR. TAYLOR: Well, yes, it speaks of a land-based storage facility that I think was, what, some 16 (Interruption) yes, the product, where . . .
MR. ALAN MACDONALD: It'll be coming from offshore. Nova Scotia Power purchases coal in the world markets where they can buy it at its best price. If you can see this, the ships bringing the coal now come right up to the end of the Strait and deposit the coal here at Aulds Cove and it's moved around then by train from Aulds Cove and off-loaded at the power plant. When one factors in the cost of moving that coal, per ton, over the run of several years, there is a fairly rapid payback of their capital expenditure.
MR. DIGOUT: Although we've met with Nova Scotia Power and they've kept us apprised of their work and so on, I'm not sure they've actually told us where they're purchasing their coal from. I think that you want to know what the country of origin is.
MR. TAYLOR: You know, that wasn't my primary concern, I was just trying to, I guess, discern whether or not Nova Scotia Power at this particular marine terminal was, you know, putting in place necessary financial checks and balances, I suppose, that would make the incorporation more profitable. I was just trying to distinguish between what's presently happening and what might happen down the road. Is it called broadband infrastructure?
[9:30 a.m.]
MR. DIGOUT: Yes.
MR. TAYLOR: That's a federal government initiative, I believe, is it not?
MR. DIGOUT: Yes. A federal program, through Industry Canada, although the province has supported it, it's mainly the federal program.
MR. TAYLOR: I know some counties - I think it's the same program - Cumberland County, the Advocate area, for example, took advantage.
MR. DIGOUT: We're fortunate in Nova Scotia. There were 33 projects approved nationally, and four of them were from Nova Scotia, three of them were from Cape Breton and the other one was from the Cumberland area, which you referred to.
MR. TAYLOR: Just wrapping, Mr. Chairman, I don't want to hog too much time.
MR. CHAIRMAN: No, that's quite alright. What I've done is allot 10 minutes for each member, and then if there's time left at the end, we will appropriate it accordingly, some people may not want to questions.
MR. TAYLOR: The gypsum company in the area, and I know they're still trans-shipping all of the mined product out. There's always the age old question about whether or not it's feasible to develop a wallboard plant, so to speak. Was there not, and is there still a wallboard plant in the area?
MR. ALAN MACDONALD: That was USG. What they made was a wallboard, but it was a specialized wallboard. They called it fibreboard. They used recycled newspaper, gypsum and a material called perlite that was purchased in Arizona and shipped across country. The fibreboard was heavier, more fire retardant and was thicker than what we normally know as our wallboard. The advantage is it gives us a better structure, a better fireproofing. The market was in the American Midwest. They would ship by rail, and their projections - they hoped to capture 5 per cent of this American Midwest market - never materialized. At the same time, USG built a brand-new production factory in Ohio, found they had surplus production and said, let's move our projection from Point Tupper down to our facility in Ohio, and they got out of the fibreboard business.
MR. TAYLOR: It's sort of strange - National Gypsum, for example, resides in my constituency, and there's another gypsum mine, Tusket Mining. Has it been the council's experience that it is not feasible? Has council, over the years, perhaps you as the development officer know, talked about establishing a wallboard plant? It's just a no-brainer, is that what we're to believe here in Nova Scotia?
MS. JOHNSON: There's still a possibility that this wallboard company will resurface again. Actually, we should know something within the next couple of weeks, whether or not they are going to resurface. It won't be the same wallboard as it was before. It will be just your regular gypsum wallboard.
MR. TAYLOR: They claim there's not nearly as many jobs, with the modern technology. I guess it's the same as with most anything as we evolve and advance.
MS. JOHNSON: There were 80 jobs, at one time, attached to it, but I think it's down quite a bit since then.
MR. ALAN MACDONALD: The employment is pretty well there. The private investors that are looking at revitalizing the plant have 40 years' experience in manufacturing wallboard. Their marketing study is very comprehensive, looking at markets in Atlantic Canada, Ontario, Quebec and New England, as far south as Boston. It's really within an easy commute by transport trucks. When you look at the numbers, when you look at the
management experience, when you look at the contribution they intend to make financially and the commitment of the management people, it's pretty attractive.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Parker.
MR. CHARLES PARKER: Good morning, folks. I, too, welcome your participation here today. I had a couple of questions, and I'm going to pick up on that wallboard issue first, while it's fresh in our minds. I can remember purchasing some of the product, and it was a good product. The only thing is it was much heavier than the typical wallboard, and it was a real problem for two people to put it up. I think it was 12 feet long, if I remember correctly, and it was heavy. The idea of easy usage or not, that was part of the difficulty. Whether that was a factor in its demise, I'm not sure, but certainly it would be nice to see product being manufactured locally rather than shipping it offshore and product coming back here when you need to purchase it for your home or whatever.
I would encourage you to continue to try to develop something there or work with the companies to see what is possible. Value added is important to our economy and, as you know, it creates more jobs.
What I was going to ask about though was, first of all, how many councillors are on your council?
MS. JOHNSON: Ten.
MR. PARKER: There's 10, counting yourself?
MS. JOHNSON: Counting myself, yes.
MR. PARKER: I guess I can relate to that somewhat, having been a municipal councillor myself in Pictou County for a number of years. Your county has many similarities, although you're smaller in population. I heard you talking about the regional mayors and wardens co-operation. There's a number of municipalities right in the Strait region, similar to my county, I think there are six municipalities that are in close proximity. Co-operation is wonderful, if it works - people coming together and participating. Has there ever been any discussion about maybe - the A word, I guess - amalgamation or a regional type of government? Would that be a benefit or not?
MS. JOHNSON: It hasn't been discussed with our council. I guess it's been out there in the media in the last couple of months. But, with respect to our neighbours, to sit down together, we have not done that and we don't foresee doing that in the future unless it becomes absolutely necessary.
MR. PARKER: So the idea of co-operation is maybe the way to go, is it?
MS. JOHNSON: We do co-operate. We share regionally in many, many areas and to the tune of several million dollars. At this point in time, that conversation probably won't be in my lifetime.
MR. PARKER: The Town of Port Hawkesbury, I think, would be your closest neighbour you would be co-operating with. That's part of Inverness County.
MS. JOHNSON: Yes, correct.
MR. PARKER: So, there's no plans towards regional government at any point?
MS. JOHNSON: No.
MR. PARKER: The other item I wanted to ask about, I can recall a number of years ago when the pipeline was laid from Guysborough County into Cape Breton. There was discussion over the size of the pipe, whether it was big enough to handle the flow of natural gas or liquids coming through. I believe it was eight inches was the size of the pipe?
MS. JOHNSON: That's correct.
MR. PARKER: There was concern over whether that was large enough to handle future flow - I'd just like to get your thoughts on that, whether you feel it has been big enough or is more capacity needed?
MS. JOHNSON: Alan, do you want to . . .
MR. DIGOUT: I suppose if the LNG proposal comes through, for example, it all depends on opportunities and volumes or if there's another discovery offshore - part of the proposal, Alan, involves a second pipeline.
MR. ALAN MACDONALD: Yes, it's sort of a two-pronged thing. In conversation with Maritimes & Northeast which owns the pipeline, I put the question to them - is it big enough? What happens if we get a requirement for more gas than this 8-inch pipeline can bring? Their response was, if you have a market, we'll get it to you. They can increase their volume through pressure stations so if they need to, they will build a new one. Although they haven't come out and said we'll build a new one, they have said if you need it, we will get it to you.
MR. DIGOUT: So currently, it's not a problem, but some of the projects, if they come about, will require a second line.
MR. PARKER: It's a big undertaking, I would think, to put a second pipe in. I don't know what the cost was to put the initial pipe down, but what would it cost for a second pipe?
MR. DIGOUT: I don't know what it would cost, but compared to the total cost of some of these projects that are being discussed, it would not be large. I can't recall - $6 million, $7 million, $8 million to go through the first time?
MR. ALAN MACDONALD: It seems $8 million sits in the back of my mind, but I wouldn't want to be quoted on that.
MR. PARKER: I remember the discussion was around whether a 10-inch pipe or a 12-inch pipe would do it right the first time and then you don't have to worry about capacity. In some ways, probably, that might have been the way to go, but anyway, it ended up with 8-inch and you have to live with that for now. See what the future holds. Maybe if I can, Mr. Chairman, just ask one further question?
MR. CHAIRMAN: Sure.
MR. PARKER: Certainly the forest industry is a big component of your economy with Stora Enso and the pulpwood industry in the Strait Area. In Richmond County, I get the impression on the coast something like maybe parts of Guysborough County, there's less natural growth of trees. How big is the actual production of fibre in your county as compared to other areas further north?
MR. DIGOUT: I'm not familiar with all the sources of wood for Stora, but I do know that Richmond is not one of the largest areas that they harvest from. Probably Mr. Chisholm, where Guysborough is a much larger producer, would be more knowledgeable of that than we are but, no, we're not a big supplier of wood to Stora.
MR. PARKER: You're a big benefit of the employment from the pulp industry, not in the woods, but in the mills I guess?
MR. DIGOUT: That's right.
MR. PARKER: That's all my questions for now, Mr. Chairman.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Epstein. By the way, just before you start, Mr. Epstein, I would just acknowledge the presence of Mr. Harold Theriault, the member for Digby-Annapolis has joined us, and also Mr. James DeWolfe, the member for Pictou East, has joined us as well. So you may proceed.
MR. HOWARD EPSTEIN: Can we go back to a point that the member for Colchester-Musquodoboit Valley raised which has to do with the proposal by Nova Scotia Power to build a coal import facility, I'm kind of curious about this. I took it from your answers to him that you anticipate that the coal is directed only for use for the Point Tupper plant that Nova Scotia Power now operates. Is that your understanding?
MS. JOHNSON: It's not my understanding.
MR. ALAN MACDONALD: My understanding is that the primary use would be for power generation, but they also intend to trans-ship coal from Point Tupper to other areas.
MR. EPSTEIN: Well, it's the other areas, that's the whole point, that's what I'm asking about. The question really is what this is going to do with respect to the existing imports of coal by Nova Scotia Power at Sydney. So is it your understanding that the proposal that you talked about for your area is intended not only to service your area locally but to displace the existing imports in Sydney?
MR. ALAN MACDONALD: I really wouldn't feel confident to respond to that, Mr. Epstein.
MR. EPSTEIN: Is that because you know nothing about it?
MR. ALAN MACDONALD: Because I'm not aware of it.
MR. EPSTEIN: All right, but you did say, I think, a moment ago that your understanding was that Nova Scotia Power intended to use the imported coal somewhere beyond the immediate area?
MR. ALAN MACDONALD: Yes, there was some discussion of trans-shipment, not only of coal but of blending coal as well, bringing different types of coal in from other areas and blending it for specific purposes before trans-shipment. Also at the opening, when Nova Scotia Power presented this model at a public meeting in Point Tupper several months ago, there was also mention that this could be used as a bulk handling terminal, without explanation. So it could be that Nova Scotia Power could trans-ship other bulk material.
MR. EPSTEIN: Other things besides coal do you mean?
MR. ALAN MACDONALD: Other things besides coal.
MR. EPSTEIN: I know it's a diversified company, but I don't know what else it ships in bulk besides coal at the moment really, does it?
MR. ALAN MACDONALD: Not that I'm aware of.
MR. EPSTEIN: No, I don't think so. So at this point you can't say, for example, that it won't displace the facilities in Sydney, you can't tell us that?
MR. MICHEL SAMSON: Mr. Chairman, on a point of order. If I can assist the member, my understanding from Nova Scotia Power is that it will not impact the Sydney off-loading facility right now. The other area where it's looking at shipping is at its power generating plant in Trenton. So it's possible that the coal arriving at the Point Tupper facility will go by rail to Trenton, and they will supply additionally, Trenton from what Trenton's receiving from the local area right now. I think it was made quite clear by them that they did not intend to see any coal being shipped from Point Tupper to the Sydney area facilities. I think it was the mainland facilities that they were thinking they might actually end up shipping some of the coal especially to nearby Trenton facility.
[9:45 a.m.]
MR. EPSTEIN: That certainly is useful information, I did note that you said there wouldn't be any displacement in Sydney now, I guess it's not necessarily ruled out. Is that your understanding?
MR. CHAIRMAN: If I could assist the member as well.
MR. EPSTEIN: Please, that would be fine, we're looking for answers.
MR. CHAIRMAN: My understanding from Nova Scotia Power as well is that the cost of transporting coal is much cheaper by water than it is by rail or truck, so all the more need for the Sydney Terminal for the local coal generating stations.
MR. EPSTEIN: Okay, I guess we'll see. That's the first thing. Second is, can you just tell me about what I understand must be salt caverns? You have salt caverns in your area?
MS. JOHNSON: Yes.
MR. EPSTEIN: How long have they been there?
MS. JOHNSON: Oh gosh, older than I am. (Laughter)
MR. EPSTEIN: What I meant was, do they actually exist as caverns, at the moment, or are they just salt formations that could be excavated? Have they actually been excavated?
MR. ALAN MACDONALD: There are caverns.
MR. EPSTEIN: As naturally occurring phenomenon, or have they been excavated?
MR. ALAN MACDONALD: They have been excavated.
MR. EPSTEIN: Really? Now why was that done? Any idea? To get the salt out or for other purposes?
MR. ALAN MACDONALD: To get the salt out, to make storage area. I think the development happened years ago, Louis, you might help me out here, was it back in the 1980s?
MR. DIGOUT: I'm not sure of the status of taking the salt out to create storage, we are aware that for four or five years now that there has been a proposal by Statia and the company involved with Statia, they have the rights from the province. So they have done some work there to try to determine where the caverns are, the capacity of the caverns, and so on. We have seen what they would do to develop the caverns if they start using it for storage, I'm not aware that that has occurred yet. If there's been any cleaning out of the caverns, taking out the brine and so on and replacing it with water that's used to displace the gas. I am not aware if that is actually occurring.
MR. EPSTEIN: Well it is a very interesting point. It was just news to me, I didn't know that you had caverns. That's fine.
MR. DIGOUT: We do have caverns that are quite a resource. Apparently, storage is much cheaper than above ground storage for natural gas.
MR. EPSTEIN: Oh yes they're a very valuable resource to have. But they haven't been used for any storage so far as you are aware?
MR. DIGOUT: Not yet.
MR. ALAN MACDONALD: The storage caverns are about 2 kilometres further up the coast and I think there was a lot of interest back in the 1980s, during the energy crisis in the U.S., they were looking because at one time there was discussion about having storage for hydrocarbons and at that time I know the caverns were considered, but to the best of my knowledge there has been no storage actually taking place. At this time there is a fair amount of research going on to understand the composition of the salt deposit, how big is it, how wide is it, how deep is it? Are there fractures? Is it capable of storing hydrocarbons? What are the risks? What are the rewards, what are the costs? At this time it has not gone beyond that.
MR. EPSTEIN: Well it's well worth investigating. Can I just ask some questions about the proposed LNG plant for Bear Head? This interests me enormously. I wondered if I understood correctly that the proposal is that if it's constructed, the idea is that it will feed
into the Maritimes & Northeast Pipeline system. That seems to be what they are saying in their literature. Is that your understanding as well?
MR. ALAN MACDONALD: Yes.
MR. EPSTEIN: The question I have about that really is what that implies about our offshore and how realistic that might be about the marketplace. It's certainly the case that there's a growing demand in the United States for natural gas and yet I thought it was always the position of the combined Maritimes & Northeast and SOEP project that they would be filling that pipeline from the offshore. If someone's now looking at the possibility of feeding gas from an LNG source, then it becomes a question of capacity - have you discussed this at all with them?
MR. DIGOUT: We've had some discussions with them and I guess there's no secrecy or magic about it, if the project does proceed - and it's still in the business plan, still in it's formative stages - the source of transport in the United States is the Maritimes & Northeast pipeline. We certainly don't have access to the impact of that on the new finds from the offshore or something like that, but the part about the LNG gas, if it comes about, flowing through the Maritimes & Northeast system, that is something that's established.
MR. EPSTEIN: I would flag capacity as a worry. Let me flag something else. Isn't it on the wrong side of the Strait? Isn't the proposal on the wrong side of the Strait in terms of access to the Maritimes &Northeast system?
MR. DIGOUT: Yes, Mr. Parker's question regarding the size of the line that currently comes across the Strait, when I responded that there are projects on the books that would necessitate another line across the Strait, that's what I was referring to. So it would require a new line.
MR. EPSTEIN: So that's the point, that the existing line simply couldn't take the LNG - if it was going to be intended as a conduit into the M&NE system something else would have to be built or the plant would have to be somewhere else.
MR. DIGOUT: No, no, a new line would have to be built.
MR. EPSTEIN: I hope you are aware that there are a lot of communities in the United States that have rejected LNG proposals. I'm aware of at least half a dozens communities - one in Maine, several in California, and one, I think, in Alabama. They've all rejected LNG proposals. They are all coastal communities where they saw potential for conflict with their local fishing industry. I'm hoping that in the environmental assessment process that goes on that you'll have a good hard look at this and not overlook the possibilities of conflict of land use. This is a real worry, but maybe I'll get back to that if we have a second round.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Mr. Wilson.
MR. DAVID WILSON (Sackville-Cobequid): Thank you for your presentation today. I just want to talk a little bit about what the warden had mentioned about tourism to the Island. It says here you are hoping to double tourism revenue for the Island over the next decade, and the potential there is to have that happen. I think, especially after the favourable rating you got through National Geographic, I think it is going to be a positive thing for Cape Breton Island. I think it will be a great boost for the economic growth of the Island.
You had mentioned here that you are one of the four federal designations for an Acadian area of the province and I think you'll play a major role this summer in the Congrès Mondial Acadien festival. Do you believe that with the conditions of the roads in your area, in your county, it will have a negative effect this tourism season?
MS. JOHNSON: Yes, it's going to have a major negative effect this season, until we get them up to a good level. The tourists don't want to travel on roads that aren't safe - and not just safe to them, but safe for their vehicles and they won't do it. If there's an alternate route, they'll take it, and I guess so would you and I.
MR. DAVID WILSON (Sackville-Cobequid): So the potential for your country to miss out on future tourism is high because of road conditions - do you foresee some repairs or upgrading over the next several months before maybe the high season for tourism?
MS. JOHNSON: Yes, there's been some ongoing surveying and there seems to be some progress being made but we have not heard how many kilometres, or what's going to be done. We do see some surface work, I guess, and lines, stakes and whatever, but they've been there for quite a while so we would like to see how far it's going to go.
MR. DAVID WILSON (Sackville-Cobequid): I noted in one of the charts, the population decline over the last 10 years has been there. Have you seen a decline in the repairs to the roads and the improvements in your area over the last decade or so?
MS. JOHNSON: I would have to say yes.
MR. DIGOUT: I guess one of our purposes for us bringing up roads is that the road from Port Hawkesbury to just outside St. Peters had been upgraded to a 100-Series Highway. I'm going back to the 1970s and early 1980s, I guess, the plan was to continue with that road to Sydney. Route 4 from that termination of Highway 104 to Sydney has been designated as part of the national highway system, yet, it's in deplorable condition. Perhaps in the early 1980s it was partly our fault, we fought over the location of the route in some of our populated communities, I want to be frank about it, but I guess the point that we would like to make now is that there would be many benefits for the province and the federal government to getting the upgrade approved to national highway standards, to making that
a priority. It would open up the second-largest population centre, probably in the Maritimes, certainly in Nova Scotia to us, which is the Sydney area.
A lot of the skills we need to grow the Strait area are located in the Sydney area, industrial-type skills, construction and so on. Those people travel to work in the Strait area when we have large projects, so it would facilitate the movement of goods and of people. Certainly, Route 4 currently, which is the major thoroughfare linking our county to Cape Breton County, is in just a deplorable state. It also happens that most of it goes through the warden's district, so that adds to its priority, I'm sure.
MR. DAVID WILSON (Sackville-Cobequid): I can assure you that I will continue to bring that forward in the House, as I did yesterday, making mention to some of the comments received, especially through the Internet, through tourists and their enthusiasm to come to the province and travel, especially to Cape Breton Island, and realizing, when they are here, how bad the roads are at times. I hope that things do get better in the future and I look forward to heading up to your area this summer hopefully, for a bit of travel. I thank you for your comments today.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Just on that point, as well, I think it is appropriate to inform the member the notice for a tender call has gone out from Big Pond Centre to Middle Cape Hill, but that's in Cape Breton West. I know the able member for Richmond will certainly keep the pressure on the minister.
The member for Richmond.
MR. MICHEL SAMSON: Mr. Chairman, I guess I could point out to Mr. Wilson that the last five years in Richmond County have been particularly cruel in regard to road work. We enjoyed quite a significant bit of road work from 1993 to 1999 but the last five years have been particular cruel. There was a little bit at election time but that apparently didn't work so well for the government, in fact, I'm still sitting here. I welcome the warden and CEO, Mr. Alan MacDonald.
One of the questions I thought would be interesting for the committee to hear is, what is the status on the assessment of the pipeline and the fractionation plant in Richmond County?
MR. DIGOUT: The pipeline has been resolved, it was resolved about a year ago. There was an arrangement that was common to all of the six municipal units that had it. It was assessed on a predetermined basis, so many dollars per metre. The Goldboro gas plant has been finalized and discussions I guess are going on right now over the fractionation plant. Our hope is that most of the issues that were resolved with the Goldboro plant will be applicable to, you know, many of the types of interpretations that were required are similar, we think, to what's required in Point Tupper with the fractionation plant.
[10:00 a.m. Mr. Brooke Taylor took the Chair.]
MR. MICHEL SAMSON: And the fractionation plant first started operating how many years ago?
MR. DIGOUT: In 1979, I believe, I'm sorry, 1999 I first saw it, I've been around too long, my memory is going.
MR. MICHEL SAMSON: So since 1999 it still hasn't been resolved?
MR. DIGOUT: No.
MR. MICHEL SAMSON: Is the municipality receiving any funding right now?
MR. DIGOUT: Yes.
MR. MICHEL SAMSON: What is the current assessment of the fractionation plant?
MR. DIGOUT: About $120 million. So the system is that they pay their taxes and we carry out estimates of how much of those taxes we'll be able to retain. So when we calculate tax rates, we don't include all of that $120 million assessment. If there are adjustments made, when the issue is resolved, we will be required to repay the industry the taxes that they've given us, the portion of the tax that they've given us that reflect the reduction.
MR. MICHEL SAMSON: So I guess, just with your answer right there, you're pretty much already accepting that once this is resolved, the assessment is going to be lower than what it currently is?
MR. DIGOUT: Yes, I believe so.
MR. MICHEL SAMSON: Why would it have been assessed that high to start off with if you expect the assessment will go lower?
MR. DIGOUT: I believe the numbers that were utilized were provided directly by the companies involved and the discussions that have been taking place are with respect to the types of facilities that those costs represented, whether in fact they were assessable or not. So those are the discussions that are going on right now. By the way, I should say on the assessment, what we always say when a taxpayer asks us about taxes, that the assessors, they're employed by the province so we're not firsthand involved in the discussions, but we are aware of the general issues.
MR. MICHEL SAMSON: One of the issues that our caucus certainly has been raising in the last number of weeks is the issue of rural economic development and the challenge of developing rural economies throughout the province. I know you've mentioned the strong partnership that has existed with ECBC and some of the other federal agencies, I can think of HRDC who certainly has been a great supporter of initiatives in Richmond County. I'm curious, just from your own experience, especially with some of the smaller projects, the community economic development type projects, what role has the province been playing in these types of projects from your experience?
MR. DIGOUT: It depends. A lot of it is specific to a project. I mean a community group usually has an idea, sometimes some skills in putting the business plan together, but not much cash and so that's the first thing we're interested in. Recently the cash has been mainly with various federal agencies and so on, but I can recall provincial involvement in many projects, you know, on Isle Madame through Economic Development.
MR. MICHEL SAMSON: Well, I guess I'm going to have to challenge you on that one. Which projects? Do you actually recall any provincial money coming on that were either developed, or Isle Madame sponsored, or other of the economic community development groups sponsored, that actually involved provincial dollars?
MR. DIGOUT: Without recalling the time lines, you know, I can recall Bras d'Or Fisheries, or whatever the fish plant was called. Projects like le Centre La Picasse involved partnerships that, you know, some have a very strong provincial component, if you're asking me to acknowledge that but currently, the cold hard cash, seems to be more at the federal level.
MR. MICHEL SAMSON: That's one of the frustrations. The two of you have mentioned about la Centre La Picasse as a cultural centre and then with the aquaculture operation were both a bit on the industrial sides of things. One of the challenges is, there's been a great deal of success in community economic development with a number of the projects, a number of the waterfront developments, the eco-trail, different initiatives such as that, and one of the frustrations is that the province isn't even at the table while those are taking place.
While NSBI is what the province is saying is responsible for economic development, for the most part, our experience in Richmond has been that they're there for industrial development but if we have community economic development groups or a small operator that wants to expand five jobs, two jobs or 10 jobs, NSBI is not there for those types of projects. It's one of the biggest frustrations that we do have.
I know that the province does have a development officer - I'm not sure what his title is now - Albert Leblanc, on behalf of the Department of Economic Development. Unfortunately, every time someone comes with a business idea, I write to him and I pretty
much know what the answer is going to be, that we'll be there to talk with you and hear your proposal, but as for funding, there's none and we don't intend to provide any. That's one of the big challenges that there has been, because at the end of the day it has been ECBC and HRDC, for the most part, that have been there to provide the revitalization that has taken place in Richmond County, especially on Isle Madame, which is one of the most unfortunate parts.
I'm curious - not to take up any more time, but - one of the new developments in the county is a new municipal office. I'm wondering if you could just inform the committee a bit about the old office as compared to the new office.
MS. JOHNSON: Well, it's a state-of-the-art building, I can say that. With respect to building it and our funding to do it, we basically did that ourselves. Louis would know how the financial arrangement was made.
MR. DIGOUT: It's about twice the size of the current office we have now, and it includes meeting facilities for council. It's about 11,000 square feet. It does have most of the modern amenities, in-floor heat, wired to the high standards available for communication right now, all the mechanical systems and so on, a couch in my office - whoops.
MS. JOHNSON: I noticed that.
MR. MICHEL SAMSON: Next to the bar.
MR. DIGOUT: No, that's in the next office. (Laughter) I guess I've been around too long - I'm sure - and I've been a tax collector for a long time, so you're always nervous about what the public will say. There was some debate about the location, but not much. The council came strongly to a consensus that the building should be in Arichat. The nice thing is I fear the reaction of the public to an investment of $3 million in a new facility, but it's been all positive.
People say to us that it helps the community spirit that's been on Isle Madame since the decline of the fishery, where they've picked themselves up by the bootstraps, and they say it fits in very well with that thinking and so on. I haven't received a negative comment. I live in River Bourgeois on the mainland, so they're not seeing any direct benefits, but the comments are all positive on the mainland, also. That's nice for our community, that the reaction is positive.
MR. MICHEL SAMSON: Just one final point . . .
MR. DIGOUT: No office in there for the MLA, though.
MR. MICHEL SAMSON: No, no, not yet. The other thing that wasn't in your presentation but what I think might be interesting for the committee members to appreciate, especially being a rural municipality and with some of the challenges that come with infrastructure, I'm wondering if you could give us a breakdown, based on the population of Richmond, what percentage of the population actually has basic municipal water, sewer or even sidewalks, which I would say is some of the basic infrastructure we expect to see in communities. Where is Richmond County in that big picture, today, in regard to that level of service?
MR. DIGOUT: We have water and sewer in St. Peters, Louisdale, Evanston, Petit-de-Gras and Arichat. It probably represents about 40 per cent, 42 per cent of our total population. Sidewalks are relatively new. We've had them in St. Peters for some time, but other communities are now coming forward and telling us that in this day and age, even in rural communities, that that's part of the local infrastructure. So we currently have one project that's in front of us.
One of the difficulties that we face, with the public education that's occurred out of Walkerton about quality of groundwater, is how to respond to that in our communities. Provincial laws have become much more stringent with respect to on-site sewage systems and so for those communities that don't have water and sewer, we're trying to find ways for them to grow and be safe at the same time. So, about 40 per cent to 45 per cent of our community has water and sewer.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. MacKinnon.
MR. RUSSELL MACKINNON: I, too, would like to add my voice to the other members who have reflected on the presentation. It's refreshing to see a positive report coming forth because it seems in Richmond County there's a fair bit of activity going on.
Several weeks ago we had representatives from the municipality in which I reside - the Cape Breton Regional Municipality - and they didn't paint quite as rosy a picture. I'm not sure if you wish to comment on that or not, but I do understand that they have been touring the province and in particular, visiting their neighbouring municipal governments. Has this issue had an impact on Richmond?
MS. JOHNSON: Well, actually, the CBRM Council did come before our council to make a presentation. Unfortunately, they made their presentation, but we didn't have a quorum. It was during a March break situation and we really didn't get a chance to discuss it thoroughly with them. But, the way we stand, I guess they're in a different situation than we are. They do have more problems, obviously, with the downturn in their economy. We seem to be in a growth spurt right now and I'm hoping it's going to continue.
We do have a problem with them sort of linking us into this Cape Breton-wide problem. It's not - we are part of Cape Breton, but we're Richmond County. When everybody refers to CBRM and the problems of Cape Breton, it just automatically includes all of the counties. We are a little bit upset - a lot upset - about that situation, but it's only a matter of clarifying the geographics.
Other than that, Louis, do you have any comment on that?
MR. DIGOUT: Not really. I mean, they have a difficult situation. We don't want to talk about theirs; certainly ours, we hope is different.
MR. MACKINNON: Based on your presentation, in particular the comments from Mr. MacDonald and Mr. Digout and Warden Johnson, it would appear as if the economic pendulum has swung from the eastern side of the Island to the western side.
MS. JOHNSON: I'd have to agree with you there, yes.
MR. MACKINNON: Would you attribute that as maybe being a factor?
MR. DIGOUT: What's nice is, a lot of it is community driven. Isle Madame is a great example of folks who didn't fold their tents. The work that's been done in the fishery with innovative community development projects and effects of keeping their youth and giving them jobs and so on, that's a good example.
MR. MACKINNON: Thank you, Mr. Digout. There are two other issues that we've raised in the House in the last few days. One is the Assessment Act that is now before the Legislature. Perhaps, Mr. Digout, if you could comment on that and what its impact will be on Richmond County. Also, with regard to the Nominee Program - I believe that was signed between the provincial government and the federal government in 2002. That would provide the opportunity for 200 immigrants a year to come to Nova Scotia and in particular, rural Nova Scotia. I believe my colleague, the member for Richmond, mentioned about one particular individual who was trying for several years to come in under that umbrella and didn't get a lot of support from the provincial level.
So far, they've only achieved 10 per cent of their objective. So in two years, I believe it's 29 out of 400 potential immigrants. We're losing a lot of transfer dollars from the federal government, we're losing a lot of enrichment for our province through - you mentioned about - skill shortages, the cultural benefits and so on. Do you have any experience with this particular program?
[10:15 a.m.]
MR. DIGOUT: No, we haven't been involved with the nominee program whatsoever.
MR. MACKINNON: What about your RDA? I understand the RDAs are an active agent in this, or at least they're trying to be but they're not getting a lot of support . . .
MR. DIGOUT: They report to us on a regular basis, and they haven't brought that issue to us.
MR. MACKINNON: Can you comment on the assessment bill?
MR. DIGOUT: There's no magic there in the way that the program will work. We haven't received definitive information yet. We are in an area with a lot of properties. I don't know if they shared those statistics with you, and I don't have them with me. There are a lot of areas where the assessments have increased substantially. Wherever the assessments are capped, the resulting loss of assessment will be measured in tax dollars and those tax dollars will be recovered from the remainder of the taxpayers. So, there's no magic to that. It's a simple accounting exercise.
MR. MACKINNON: In other words, if I hear what you're saying, if it's not going to come from the residential, it has to come from the business side of the equation.
MR. DIGOUT: No, I'm sorry. It will come from the whole community, business and residential. So whatever taxes are forgiven, those folks who exceed the threshold that will be established - and I'm not aware if they've actually identified a threshold yet - we will measure that assessment, and whatever the dollars are, we'll collect from everybody in our county, everybody else.
MR. MACKINNON: I understand the official position of the Union of Nova Scotia Municipalities is that they're not in favour of this particular legislation, and you are a member of the UNSM. So, is your position, as a municipality, consistent with the UNSM's or what?
MS. JOHNSON: Yes, we are consistent with the UNSM.
MR. MACKINNON: You don't support the bill, as it is, before the Legislature.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Epstein.
MR. EPSTEIN: What I wondered, warden, was whether you've done your budget for this fiscal year?
MS. JOHNSON: We haven't completed it yet, but we are working on it.
MR. EPSTEIN: There's a draft one in front of council but it hasn't been adopted, is that what you meant?
MS. JOHNSON: That's correct.
MR. EPSTEIN: But you must be awash in money from all your heavy industry properties there, is that the case?
MS. JOHNSON: You would assume that would be the case, but . . .
MR. EPSTEIN: You do say that you have the lowest or second-lowest property tax rates in both your residential and industrial categories. So that would certainly indicate that you're able to do that with the property base you have.
MS. JOHNSON: We are able to do that. Also, with proper fiscal management, we are able to keep our money well managed, and we don't overspend, we don't build or do things that we can't afford, therefore, we're able to keep our residents with a good tax rate.
MR. EPSTEIN: Do you have a demand from your residents for significantly increased municipal services, or are they happy with the level of services, generally, that you're offering with the low tax rates?
MS. JOHNSON: They're happy with the level of services. We do wish to, hopefully, expand water and sewer services to other parts of the county. We will be expanding our broadband, of course, to parts of the county, services like that. But in general, they're very pleased with the level of service that they're receiving.
MR. EPSTEIN: You paid for the broadband yourself, did you?
MS. JOHNSON: Not paid for it, no, federal funds.
MR. DIGOUT: There will be a municipal contribution. We're one of the financial partners.
MR. EPSTEIN: I want to go back, as well, briefly, to the proposed LNG plant. I'm not speaking for or against the plant, I'm just wanting that you should be clear-eyed about it, I'm just wanting that you shouldn't necessarily assume that it's going to go ahead. I think that anyone in your position has to have a realistic appraisal of what the chances are. I just wanted to remind you that there's a proposal that's going ahead in New Brunswick that the Irvings have in Saint John for a liquified natural gas plant there and you're aware of that?
[10:20 a.m. The Chairman resumes the Chair.]
MS. JOHNSON: Yes, we are aware of that.
MR. EPSTEIN: I'm sure you were, there was no secret about it and it's going through the environmental assessment process just as I suppose the Bear Head one would. I apologize my phone has gone off again.
The other thing I wondered is, I don't think the company, the Access Northeast Energy, has actually purchased that land from the province yet have they? It's an option, is it not an option?
MS. JOHNSON: It's an option. They haven't purchased . . . (Interruptions)
MR. EPSTEIN: Sorry, I'm going to just turn this off. I apologize. (Interruptions)The only lesson from that I think, of course, is that so far they're not invested in the community? I think that's the only lesson about that.
MS. JOHNSON: Yes, that's a reasonable assessment there, but the way that Mr. Hart, President of A&E. I'd say the way he's proceeding is very slow and very cautious. He's not getting our hopes up or he's not raising expectations. He's doing his homework, he's doing it well. He has an excellent proposal, but he's not making us any promises.
MR. EPSTEIN: I think this is good to hear because as far as I'm aware, I don't see that the company has any other projects. It seems to be a special purpose company that's been formed to look at this possibility and, of course, it's based in Alberta, Mr. Hart seems to be a resident there, his Vice-President lives in New Hampshire. This is not necessarily a locally connected company and they don't seem to have any other projects on the go. The only reason I was a little worried was because of when I read your minutes from your council meeting from last October, there was some question and answer about the state of play of the proposed LNG terminal and it just sounded from the minutes, as if, there was an underlying assumption that it was definitely going to go ahead and that tax revenues were almost there and you can almost spend them. So long as you are clear-eyed about the possibility that this might not go ahead then I'm happy on this.
MS JOHNSON: I am very clear.
MR. EPSTEIN: Okay, thank you, very much.
MS. JOHNSON: Okay.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay, who's next? I have Mr. Taylor.
MR. TAYLOR: Thank you. Mr. Chairman, you piqued my interest a little bit asking Richmond Council members some questions about the CBRM? I'm wondering if, while you didn't have a quorum, Madam Warden, in fact, you dealt with that particular issue in camera?
MS. JOHNSON: I wasn't there.
MR. DIGOUT: I am sorry, what was the question?
MR. TAYLOR: The issue relative to CBRM position in the province and so on. I'm wondering, was that dealt with in camera?
MR. DIGOUT: Oh no, the local media were all present, it was televised and so on.
MR. TAYLOR: Was Richmond County Council asked to deal with the resolution or perhaps was CBRM, I guess, trying to ascertain the position of Richmond County Council?
MR. DIGOUT: No, I think it was informative. We weren't asked to take any position on it and it was received.
MR. TAYLOR: That's fine. As well, the extremely low tax rates that you have, 69 cents, I think it is, residential and $1.36 commercial. It certainly seems very attractive and usually when you have an out-migration, there's profound correlation between the employment rate and the out-migration and I see your employment rate is declining or has declined, yet Port Hawksbury is considerably lower, it's around 4 per cent. I'm just wondering, in terms of the jobs that are available in the area, are they local people for the most part? Is there any concerns along the lines that some of the jobs are being taken by people from other jurisdictions? It seems rather unusual.
MS. JOHNSON: It's not, it's a cross. There are jobs, of course, but no, I would say the majority of the jobs that are being taken are from our own residents.
MR. DIGOUT: Until recently, for example, the local economic development community, were concerned that the EDS expansion, that we wouldn't be able to find enough workers in the local area. I'm not sure what the situation is now, they've lost that contract a couple of weeks ago, but they were talking about importing labour to fill that need for example.
MR. TAYLOR: What is, in the county, the employment rate?
MS. JOHNSON: 23.
MR. DIGOUT: It's not measured on a regular basis. We're part of a region so the last statistics we have are Census Canada from 2001, and it was 27 per cent or 28 per cent that time, which mirrors Inverness County and Victoria County and so on.
MR. TAYLOR: It seems like you have a lot happening and a lot going on in the municipality, but unfortunately . . .
MR. DIGOUT: We've had our challenges.
MR. TAYLOR: Yes, you certainly do have your challenges. Just one last question, you speak of ecotourism and culture tourism and I'm curious about the distinction. I would think they would be almost one and the same and in some cases, they probably are.
MS. JOHNSON: There is a distinction.
MR. DIGOUT: What is it?
MS. JOHNSON: I don't know.
MR. DIGOUT: The ecotourists are the folks who come in and enjoy the local landscape and that experience and the cultural tourists would be interested in our rich history. The community of Isle Madame, for example, Arichat, at the turn of the century, 100 years ago, was a larger community than Sydney and so we're trying to develop the infrastructure that's required - the genealogy and so on - to share that with people who have that industry, so, from my perspective, that's the difference between the cultural and the ecotourists.
MR. TAYLOR: That's from the municipality's perspective? From the tourists' point of view, perhaps there's a more definite crossover in many cases.
MR. DIGOUT: Perhaps.
MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Parker.
MR. PARKER: Thank you. I had two or three maybe unrelated questions. I guess first of all, your area of the province is one of the Acadian regions. You're well-known for your French heritage. Is your council bilingual or do you have any translation services or is it all in English? How does it operate?
MS. JOHNSON: Actually, it is all in English. A lot of our correspondence that goes out is both French and English. We have bilingual members around the council table as well.
MR. PARKER: As we do in the Legislature.
MR. DIGOUT: Very able Acadian members too, I might add.
MR. PARKER: We have some questions and answers en Français at times and I was just wondering if your council was the same?
MR. DIGOUT: We've never had that request.
MR. PARKER: Okay. So, English is your language of use.
MR. DIGOUT: Yes.
MS. JOHNSON: Yes.
MR. PARKER: Okay, a different question. I guess I get mixed signals here in some respects. We've heard a good, positive report on economic development and things that are happening in your county. On the other hand, your population is declining and I read in the stats where it's dropped 13.6 per cent from 1986 to 2001. So you're losing a lot of people, I think around 1,600 people that have left over those number of years. Like I said, I'm getting mixed signals, things are happening. I heard earlier that maybe you've turned the corner, that you feel the loss of population has bottomed out and now you're heading onward and upward. I'm just wondering how you're addressing the good with the bad in that respect.
MS. JOHNSON: I feel that the population is just about at its peak. It's not going to go, it's not going to get any worse than that. I find now that there are a lot of people coming back to the area. Some just to retire, of course, but that's still people coming back and participating in the economy. There are also young people coming back to the area too because we're able to offer them some work, some jobs that our industries are providing. I can see them coming back. So there's a little bit of a turnaround - it's slow, it's a slow curve, but it's coming.
MR. PARKER: I think I've noticed the same thing in my county. We were losing a large number of young people and there seems to be some stability and more are staying, finding jobs, in some cases, good jobs. Also, retired people moving here that perhaps that never lived in Nova Scotia coming back to enjoy our lifestyle. It's encouraging in that respect.
Nonetheless, you do have challenges. I was going to ask, what would you consider your top two challenges in Richmond County at this time? I know it's a hard question off the top of your head, but I know you do have challenges.
MR. DIGOUT: In my opinion, youth out-migration. I'm at that stage in life where I've got two kids who have graduated from university, they're both here in Halifax and I'm having a hard time getting them to come back home.
The second, I guess, is the general problem in rural Nova Scotia with declining populations and so on. I think that's the problem. I think the issue is getting all governments to work together to address that. We've seen examples in our community of where that can be stabilized and turned around, even on Isle Madame, you know, broad community effort, prominent folks like Silver Donald Cameron, some that you've recognized as a Legislature, and organizations and so on. I guess when we were invited here and we spoke among ourselves, one of the objectives that we had was to try to give you an idea of what's going on - I know you're from rural Nova Scotia, but what's going on - from our perspective and give you some information on maybe how you could respond to that.
[10:30 a.m.]
If you do choose as a government, for example, to give priority to upgrading Route 4, you know, partner with the federal folks who will identify that, I'm sure it would cause you great pain in other parts of the province, but you will take the area of the province that probably has the highest unemployment rate and create some immediate work and some infrastructure. I'm not sure there's an easy answer, but we're working on it.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Epstein.
MR. EPSTEIN: Mr. Chairman, it turned out my phone was ringing for an unfortunate reason. We've just learned that in Glace Bay, where there has been a call centre, which was originally started by, I think, Stream and then it was run by a company called Solectron and it's latest manifestation was a company called ECE, it has just laid off 800 employees through lack of work. So I'm wondering what the implications, if any, are for your part of the Island that seems to be in a much better economic position than the CBRM area. Do you find that people have moved from the greater Sydney area of Cape Breton to the Strait area? Has that been part of the history or has your population essentially been an indigenous local population without much movement or is there much movement around the Island?
MS. JOHNSON: The only time there would be movement from the Sydney area would be through the trades, when there would be expansions and things like that, but as far as say maybe the call centre, or whatever, I wouldn't see any movement from the Sydney area to the Port Hawkesbury area with that. It really wouldn't affect our population.
MR. EPSTEIN: Is the trades migration temporary or permanent? You're talking about construction, but ongoing repairs and so on?
MS. JOHNSON: It's only temporary.
MR. EPSTEIN: I see. It's when there's a building project going on, is that what you mean?
MS. JOHNSON: Yes.
MR. EPSTEIN: Yes, okay, and could you absorb 800 people?
MS. JOHNSON: We could.
MR. DIGOUT: We have the space for them.
MS. JOHNSON: We have the space for it.
MR. DIGOUT: Could our economy?
MR. EPSTEIN: Yes, that's what I mean, jobs, I don't just mean to find a place for them to hang out.
MS. JOHNSON: No.
MR. DIGOUT: Of course not.
MR. EPSTEIN: No, that's just not the magnitude of what's available at the moment?
MS. JOHNSON: No.
MR. DIGOUT: We would need some help. Have you got any?
MR. EPSTEIN: Well, I think this is a provincial-level problem and not purely a local problem for sure and it illustrates one of the differences, I guess, between the economic base that you've managed to develop and something like call centres which are very fragile items. That's difficult. Can I ask about the Route 4 proposal. You highlighted in big letters in your proposal that it was a designated part of the Trans-Canada Highway. I have to say I didn't know that.
MR. DIGOUT: It was part of the 100-Series Highway.
MR. EPSTEIN: Sorry, of the 100-Series, it was part of the 100-Series Highway.
MS. JOHNSON: The national highway system.
MR. DIGOUT: The provincial Transportation and Public Works Department tells us that it's actually part of the national highway system and that they've designated that route as . . .
MR. EPSTEIN: Yes, in fact, it says national highway system in your report. So does that mean that at some point the federal government could be expected to kick in some money towards it?
MR. DIGOUT: Oh, certainly.
MS. JOHNSON: Definitely.
MR. DIGOUT: And when we meet with them, they tell us the actual priorities that are established are a provincial jurisdiction and the province tells us, well, you know, the feds got the money and if they tell us they're willing to put the money into that stretch of road, we'll do it. So we're asking both to place priority on that project.
MR. EPSTEIN: So if we assume that the province really does probably get to set the priorities, do you know where that stretch of highway might sit in terms of provincial priorities?
MR. DIGOUT: We have been told that the number-one priority is the twinning from New Glasgow to the Strait. There are other priorities in the Valley and so on, and I guess the fourth major project would be from River Tillard to Sydney. They consider that to be part of the twinning, and they have given us some information on that and so on.
MR. EPSTEIN: So the plan, if it goes ahead, would be to twin that road - no, or to upgrade that road?
MR. DIGOUT: Well they would upgrade it, but they would consider that to be twinning the Trans-Canada Highway, because the Trans-Canada already goes down through Quebec.
MR. EPSTEIN: Yes. So you are not talking about a boulevard-style of 100-Series Highway on that side of Bras d'Or Lakes.
MR. DIGOUT: No.
MR. EPSTEIN: No. Okay. I've driven it a number of times and you are right, of course, it's in very bad shape and it's a difficult route. Thank you.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Very good. Mr. Samson.
MR. MICHEL SAMSON: Just following up on Route 4, to give you a better understanding. Anyone who has driven on it recently, my comments to the media were you'd be hard-pressed to find an amusement ride that would give you the same effect as driving on Route 4. It's to the point now that - if I'm not mistaken, Mr. Chairman, you'd be aware of this also - heavy traffic, such as 18-wheelers, have been discouraged from taking that road at all, due to the fact of its narrowness, and when you come to some of those turns and you meet an 18-wheeler you just start praying at that point that you are going to make it through. It's a problem because, as the council has indicated, there is little interaction between Richmond County via Sydney through Route 4. People from Sydney who are leaving the Island are going to go up Highway No. 105, which goes up through Baddeck and down through Inverness County. So it is certainly a serious economic development issue.
One of the other points that I want to raise from the provincial side, Mr. MacDonald, and you'll probably have these stats if I am not mistaken - and Mr. Digout you had worked on this also - starting to break down exactly what benefits the county receives from the province. There was actually a breakdown of how many provincial government jobs were in Richmond County, and if I am not mistaken I believe the number was somewhere in the range of about 30 jobs. I think the breakdown that was done showed that we were one of the counties with the lowest amounts of provincial government jobs anywhere in the province.
One of the challenges there is the fact that the Town of Port Hawkesbury is seen as a bit of the centre in the Strait area, but it's in Inverness County; in fact, in Richmond - if I am not mistaken - other than transportation jobs and some jobs at the Department of Natural Resources in St. Peters, those are about the only provincial government jobs there are, other than a few health nurses I believe that are involved in there also. So I am just curious - do you recall what those exact figures were? I know there was a presentation made by Mr. Digout a few years ago pointing out where Richmond was compared to some other areas and where we were. But as far as provincial government jobs, am I correct in using that figure of approximately about 30 jobs is what Richmond County receives as . . .
MR. DIGOUT: I thought it was a useful exercise. I can't remember the exact numbers. I never got very many stars for it, so I kind of dropped that. We struggle to continue with support from government for the issues that we face.
MR. MICHEL SAMSON: Not to put you too much on the spot - we heard the Minister of Economic Development yesterday say what a wonderful plan they had in place for rural economic development - if I were to ask you today what your understanding is of the province's role or what they have available to Richmond County in regard to promoting economic development, what would that be? What role do you see the provincial government playing today or offering Richmond to play in the field of economic development?
MS. JOHNSON: I guess more resources, basically, and money would be very nice. Economic development on a community basis is growing in Richmond County. I would like to see more of a role from the provincial government in helping us to increase that base to a lot bigger than what it is. It's starting to come in the smaller communities.
MR. MICHEL SAMSON: Which, again, highlights the frustration, unfortunately, with all the successes that are being achieved, that the province isn't part of that, which is very unfortunate. One of the big things we have done in Richmond County is that there hasn't been the idea of it being a closed shop. Where we have had success, we have shared that success, especially in Isle Madame. There was a foundation from Europe that came in to do a study on the success achieved there. I remember meeting with these individuals and they were a bit surprised at how the community was so open to sharing its experiences, sharing the success after the collapse of the fishery and what had been done. That is why I find it so unfortunate that if the province was playing a bigger role on the ground with community economic development, they could then share that with other communities and allow them to see some of the experiences. Rather than reinventing the wheel in every community, it would be a matter of sharing success in what works and what doesn't work.
One of the other issues that I was curious as to what the municipal stand was, it is my understanding that under the Municipal Government Act you are limited in how much of your tax base you are permitted to give out in community grants/economic development/everything else that the municipality is looking to sponsor, outside of the traditional municipal role. If I'm not mistaken, I believe it's 2 per cent or your . . .
MS. JOHNSON: One per cent.
MR. MICHEL SAMSON: One per cent of your tax rate. I know that Richmond has certainly played a very large role in assisting community groups and promoting development in the county. Is it the municipality's position that that 1 per cent cap should be maintained, or is it time for the provincial government to start allowing municipalities on their own, in a responsible way, of determining year by year what it can afford to give, rather than being limited by this 1 per cent cap? I'm curious what your view on that is?
MR. DIGOUT: Several years ago we approached the province and asked them to increase the portion of our tax levy that we're allowed to give away as grants. There was some debate even among municipal government about whether that was a good idea or not, to be fair, because the other side of the picture is, what we are doing is taking taxpayers' money and giving it out to groups and there's a limit on that for a good reason. Yes, our position was that we would like to see that cap of 1 per cent of our tax levy increased.
MR. MICHEL SAMSON: Just as a final point, on Route 4, I, myself, am aware of how much correspondence has come from council but I'm just curious if you can enlighten the committee - especially the government members - on how many times has the issue of
Route 4 been raised at council, and correspondence sent from council to both the provincial and federal governments regarding Route 4?
MS. JOHNSON: Good gracious.
MR. DIGOUT: It has kept me in a very good job for a long time.
MR. CHAIRMAN: It keeps Stora's forest industry busy.
MS. JOHNSON: For as long as I've been there, for sure, and then before that as well - years and years of correspondence.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Samson. Just a quick little footnote on that issue of Route 4, before I recognize Mr. Chisholm. Route 4 from Port Hawkesbury to Sydney is approximately 27 to 28 kilometres shorter than going on Highway No. 105, which is why it is so important. There are locations - because I've measured them, I'm a surveyor, I guess I'm licensed to do that - stretches of highway, where if you were to put two tractor-trailers side by side, from west coast mirror to west coast mirror, they're wider than the width of the asphalt. Mr. Samson's point is well taken.
Mr. Chisholm.
MR. RONALD CHISHOLM: I welcome our presenters today from Richmond County. I have known them for quite a number of years, dealt with them, worked with them, through my municipal days. I just wanted to, I guess, maybe mention the Strait area mayors and wardens that you established a couple of years ago, I guess, now. I think that committee was in place for a number of years but it wasn't really active. I recall the days when I was Warden of the District of St. Mary's, if there was a big issue we had to deal with, we probably met, but I understand now that you're meeting on a regular basis, working together for the betterment of the Strait area.
A few months back, maybe in February, you met with our caucus on an oil rig in Dartmouth. I was certainly pleased to see the co-operation there that day from all the mayors and wardens, and the people from the Strait area.
[10:45 a.m.]
I think for the committee's benefit maybe, if you could expand, give us a little bit of an overview of what your role is, what you do and how it has benefited the area, it might be good for all members. Because I believe, in the province, I don't think there's another regional municipal government that does what you do down there, as far as working together.
MS. JOHNSON: Well, the Strait area mayors and wardens, it's a good form for regional co-operation and advocacy. One of the three areas, that we are all working together on right now as the mayors and wardens group is the upgrade of Route 4 which we have been discussing and the communication between us and the province with transfer of Crown lands and we'd like to see more communication before those lands have been transferred because with us, in the Point Tupper area, in our industrial park, there are some lands that are being sold that would be very beneficial to us if conversed first with us and then made a decision on it. I guess the main thing that we're focusing on as mayors and wardens at this point in time, is the port master plan. I mean we're really trying to get that up and running. We didn't decide who's going to be driving it yet, but we're going to have to sit down and pretty much hash that out because the main focus now is the port master plan and the way we work together as a team.
MR. CHISHOLM: Mr. Chairman, through you, a few minutes back, I guess I heard some different media reports on the amalgamation . I think it was mentioned by my colleague, the member for Pictou West, on the amalgamation of the Strait area. I take it from your answer that you're definitely not in favour of an amalgamated municipal unit in the Strait?
MS. JOHNSON: No.
MR. CHAIRMAN: That's not part of your mandate? Maybe some others.
MS. JOHNSON: No, definitely not- not part of our mandate.
MR. CHISHOLM: Okay, that's all I had, Mr. Chairman, and thank you very much for your presentation, it was a good one and I appreciate being here.
MS. JOHNSON: Thank you.
MR. CHAIRMAN: I, too. The only thing I've heard on the amalgamation was something on the local media with regard to the Mayor of Port Hawkesbury, but obviously the point has been made, that no correspondence - so it may be just more media attention than anything else.
Mr. DeWolfe.
MR. JAMES DEWOLFE: Thank you, and welcome. I apologize for being a few minutes late. Warden Johnson, you've indicated that you'd like to see more money from the provincial government. I'm wondering, going to Mr. MacDonald, first of all, the government's maintaining its commitment to your RDA? And I'm wondering what major project are you working on? What development project would sort of stand out that you are currently working on that you would like to see some assistance with?
MR. ALAN MACDONALD: We're set up to try to encourage and promote development in the energy sector for Point Tupper. We're working with a number of companies now who've expressed an interest in coming to our region as an investor to establish industry and create employment.
One of the other things we are doing is to initiate studies and projects that, for example, on supply of fresh water to industry, we need to do more investigation. How much fresh water do we need? How much water do the industries looking at in our area require? What can we do to be prepared for development and the same goes for transportation. We're quite interested in working with our neighbours in communities to do a transportation study. What happens if the area does develop? Will our existing roadways support added traffic?
So, we're doing a lot of preparatory work, so that when development occurs, we're prepared.
So, I suppose, one thing that we would look at is working as a partner with the province . . .
MR. DEWOLFE: Conducting more studies.
MR. ALAN MACDONALD: . . . to do projects that are important to put us in a position of growth. I will add that we work very closely with Nova Scotia Business Inc. and the provincial Department of Energy and we enjoy a very strong relationship with those two departments.
MR. DEWOLFE: Thank you.
MR. CHAIRMAN: We are getting a little tight on time and I will recognize Mr. Theriault for a short snapper or two.
MR. HAROLD THERIAULT: I, too, welcome you this morning, and I'm sorry for being late, I missed the first part of your presentation. I just sat here and listened. I hear you talking about your roads in Cape Breton, at least you have a 100-Series Highway up through Richmond. Down where I'm from in Digby we don't have a 100-Series Highway there yet; 30 kilometres of it taken out of the middle of it. We're still on Route 4 down there. Period. I've been listening to your presentation, and reading some - you do seem to be doing well there in the Richmond area. I don't know if we can contribute that to your MLA or not. He does brag that area up a lot. (Laughter) If you could say one word on what you would contribute your success to, what would it be? Of the growth you have there. Or two words, or three.
MS. JOHNSON: Point Tupper.
MR. ALAN MACDONALD: I'd say positive attitude. Very positive. It's a good place to work. Very rarely will you talk to people in the Strait Area who would say we tried that 20 years ago and it didn't work. What you do here is exciting. Let's work together. Let's see how we can do this project.
MR. MICHEL SAMSON: Mr. Chairman, I guess just following up on what Mr. Theriault asked there, interesting and following up on your questions about CBRM, the one thing you are going to notice about Richmond County is if you give us one hour with government officials or with investors, we are going to spend 10 minutes telling you about our challenges, and we are going to spend 50 minutes telling you about all the success we have had and all the different ideas we have and how we want to work together.
I've often said that I believe if the CBRM started adopting a bit more of that approach they may be able to get a bit further. Richmond has certainly achieved a lot of success by using that approach. We have challenges, but we have a lot of success and we are not afraid to talk about that success and thank those who have been a partner in that. Just following up on Mr. DeWolfe's question, the oil and gas office that was established, where does the funding come for that office?
MR. ALAN MACDONALD: A contribution from the federal government, through Enterprise Cape Breton, came in at half the funding.
MR. MICHEL SAMSON: And the other half is from?
MR. ALAN MACDONALD: From the municipality.
MR. MICHEL SAMSON: How much money from the Province of Nova Scotia?
MR. ALAN MACDONALD: I don't think any. Not having my fingers on the books, I would have to defer to the tax collector. I can't answer that.
MR. DIGOUT: It's 50/50.
MR. MICHEL SAMSON: Between the municipality and the federal? And there is no provincial money? No.
The Department of Energy - I think you pointed out that the Strait area is becoming kind of the energy centre of Nova Scotia. How many employees of the Department of Energy are located in the Strait area on a full-time basis?
MR. ALAN MACDONALD: None.
MR. MICHEL SAMSON: None. Is there even a full-time office in the Strait area for energy?
MR. ALAN MACDONALD: There is one member of the Department of Energy who is designated as our contact person in Halifax, who does come to the area once or twice a month at least. Secondly, we have a member of the Department of Energy on our management committee who attends our meetings. There is no office, there is no full-time.
MR. MICHEL SAMSON: So you have the one area of the province that has seen the most development of energy, of natural gas, that has the most potential for growth right now, with the LNG project and other possible findings and the Province of Nova Scotia does not have one full-time employee of the Department of Energy in the Strait area, one full-time office from the Department of Energy. I think that should be a signal to the government members on this committee as to why there is frustration about the role of the province in the growth that has taken place in the Strait and the opportunities that are being missed. So I just thought I would point that out for my good friend here next to me.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Samson, very well articulated. (Interruptions) He's just helping his colleague there, the member for Pictou East, I'm sure. I want to, on behalf of the committee, thank you for coming and appearing today and telling about your success stories. Obviously, a lot of good things are happening in Richmond County, a lot of challenges. Sometimes when we sit at our caucus table, I think we're somehow all adopted by Richmond County by the presentations that are made by your local MLA because he's constantly pursuing the issues and doing them very well and, obviously, that's taking place at the municipal level. Warden Johnson, I must commend you and your council and your colleagues who are here today. I know Mr. MacDonald has been a little quiet. He has a lot on his plate and it's evident by your report. So we would like to thank you and wish you well. If you have a few closing remarks, feel free.
MS. JOHNSON: Yes, thank you, Mr. Chairman. As you said before, we have enjoyed many successes, some small and some large. One, of course, is our new municipal office and we will be moving into the new office at the end of this month and, hopefully, when any of the members are down, we would certainly like to take you on a tour and show you our handiwork. (Interruption) And lobster and crab, of course.
MR. CHAIRMAN: I know Mr. Wilson made note about the issues on tourism and so on and culture, you know, the Acadian culture and Celtic. The warden, herself, is a very noted Highland dancer with many distinctions. She's very humble. She may not mention that.
MS. JOHNSON: Yes, the Highland Games, lots of trophies.
MR. CHAIRMAN: And provincially recognized, and nationally.
MS. JOHNSON: Thank you. I would also like to thank Mr. Digout and Mr. MacDonald for being here with me today and thank you, Mr. Chairman, and the members of the standing committee, for the opportunity to appear before you today and give you a round-about update on Richmond County. Hopefully, we'll continue to have success, and success in dealing with this committee.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Can we have a motion to adjourn?
MR. PARKER: I so move.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
The committee is adjourned.
[The committee adjourned at 10:58 a.m.]