HANSARD

Printed and Published by Nova Scotia Hansard Reporting Services

VETERANS AFFAIRS COMMITTEE

Mr. Stephen McNeil (Chairman)

Mr. Keith Bain

Mr. Patrick Dunn

Mr. Chuck Porter

Mr. Gordon Gosse

Mr. David Wilson (Sackville-Cobequid)

Mr. Percy Paris

Mr. Harold Theriault

Mr. Wayne Gaudet

[Mr. Stephen McNeil was replaced by Mr. Mr. Leo Glavine.]

[Mr. David Wilson (Sackville-Cobequid) was replaced by Mr. Trevor Zinck.]

[Mr. Wayne Gaudet was replaced by Mr. Keith Colwell.]

Mrs. Darlene Henry

Legislative Committee Clerk

MR. CHUCK PORTER (Chairman): I think we will get started, gentlemen, as I think everyone is here at this point in time. First of all, I'd like to welcome our two guests here this morning; Mr. Patrick Milner and Mr. Jamie Bailey. Welcome gentlemen.

Just before we start maybe we will go around the room and do some introductions, we have some changes this morning, starting with Mr. Gosse.

[The committee members introduced themselves]

MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much, gentlemen. So we will get right to the presentation and I will hand it right over to you, Mr. Milner.

MR. PATRICK MILNER: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I would like to first thank you all for having us. It has been roughly two years, I think, since we have been here last. When we first showed up two years ago, we were really very new and we were pretty nervous being here, I think. We have done a lot of stuff over the last couple of years, we're going to review some of that today. Just to get us started, we're going to jump right into the presentation because we want to get it done.

We are going to ask that if there are any questions, we were going to try and zip right through this, because I know the second half is really interesting and I know you will want to dissect that and talk to us a little bit about it afterwards.

I guess I will start by saying that we incorporated under the Societies Act, for those of you who don't know, about three years ago, on October 27, 2003. Two years ago, we had an official launch from Government House. It was very well received. A couple of members of the Legislature at the time were there, and she was a very gracious host.

Some of you may recall one of the programs that we did, a big one, was the hockey patch program. I brought a couple of brochures - Mr. Gosse, maybe you could start to hand those around. The province and Tim Horton's sponsored this and it was very well received; we reached about 19,000 participants across the province. When you get this brochure there is that little badge in there. They were sewn on to approximately 19,000 participants across the Province of Nova Scotia to commemorate the Year of the Veteran. It sparked a lot of discussion, there were a lot of veterans who went into the locker rooms and families sewed on the badges and it was a really neat way to get the message out there and it did a lot for us. The delivery agent was Hockey Nova Scotia and they were very good at what they did. So everybody was very pleased with that. That program was actually launched from Province House, next door, so some of you may have been there for that.

Last year, we had a first annual youth forum. It was at Dalhousie University in the Cohn Auditorium and it was very well received and it is going to be a hallmark for the Canadian Youth Remembrance Society in the future. Starting with the Province of Nova Scotia and then moving to the Atlantic Region, we are going to bring some young people from the communities across the province, talk about remembrance issues and how young people can make remembrance their own, pick up those traditions from the past and create new ones at the same time.

All of you will have received a copy of our new business plan that is set to begin next April 1^st, the beginning of our fiscal year. It was a very exciting process, and we have some neat things that are happening with that. One of the reasons that we wanted to come here - I think this is a perfect time - is after doing that business planning process we became very optimistic, very positive about the future of remembrance programming in the country, certainly here in the province. The Year of the Veteran was very well received, as all of you know. There were some very creative ways that Nova Scotians commemorated veterans and 60 years since the end of the Second World War.

This momentum is really creating some optimism for me because of the work that I have been doing with the Board of Directors for the Canadian Youth Remembrance Society. A lot of people have their eye on us, saying that we have done some really good things, we have had a lot of reach, and we are ready to take it to the next levels. So that is why we are here today.

One of the things we are trying to do is educate youth about war in a way that obviously prevents them from having to relive it, as they say, even though we haven't gone through it. We are going to achieve this goal by trying to promote chapters in the Canadian Youth Remembrance Society to start some of our programming that we just outlined, a youth forum and some of those things and we are going to get into a few more.

We are also hoping that if we take people overseas, at least some core group of young people in the next several years, that these people would really be changed by that experience. I know that I, as an individual, am pretty passionate about this topic. I have never been to any of these gravesites, I have never seen any of this stuff. I really think that it would help enhance what I am doing, and I think it would be good for me and I want to get over there. What is launching this issue is that one thing we're hoping to get to see is the rededication of the Vimy Memorial on April 9^th of next year, in France at Vimy Ridge. As some of you may know, the federal government started a project to renovate that site and to rededicate it as a Canadian overseas monument - I am not sure exactly what they are going to call it, but I know that they are rededicating it. So the Canadian Youth Remembrance Society - just to jump ahead of the thing, we are organizing a little trip overseas and we are going to talk to you a little bit about that later.

One way we are going to achieve this goal is to get into the schools; we are going to do information sessions. That is a key starting point. We are going to take some of our programming and we're going to go in and do a little information session, get some idea of what young people are doing in their communities, as well as invite them to the youth forum to continue that discussion and, hopefully, at the forum we will continue to have start-up opportunities when they go into their communities and enhance what they're already doing in their own communities. There are obviously traditions that are currently happening.

We have come to the conclusion through our business planning, that we need to be very proactive with raising funds. The warm and fuzzy stuff is very important, but we really need money. That is critical, every organization does. After three years, we have decided that we need to get young people out doing some very general level of fundraising, so that people can see that young people are out in the communities, and to use those funds to help fund the programming initiatives like helping to send people overseas, funding the forum, information sessions and other program issues as they happen.

One thing we want to do, a new tradition, is we would really like to summarize a lot of what we are doing yearly at an annual luncheon, probably here in Halifax for the first few years but we might take that around the province to different areas, perhaps to a school or a community that does something unique during the course of the year, whether it is with us or has anything to do with remembrance programming that sort of

highlights the year for the province or any province. We'll go and do an annual luncheon there and we will donate some money to different causes that we have raised the money for and celebrate to a captive audience.

[9:15 a.m.]

MR. JAMIE BAILEY: Patrick has taken us to a point, and I guess at the end of the day what we're trying to do now is allow our target market of youth to really be aware of it. So my agency has kind of stepped in to help them out in a number of different aspects. One thing we did recently, and how we are attempting to project this message, kind of package the message that Patrick has, is through this public service announcement which will be launched across the country in commemoration of the three year anniversary.

[Public service announcement played]

MR. BAILEY: Does anyone want to see that again? Perhaps one time was good enough? Play again?

[Public service announcement replayed]

MR. BAILEY: Now the point of this PSA is really to draw people to the Web site. That is the second thing we produced for the society. Right now, this will be launched, again to correspond with the PSA, so we are still under construction right now but it will be launched in the next two weeks, but this is a sense of what it is looking like, to date. Essentially, students can find out how they can physically get involved, people can donate, they can check on upcoming events, et cetera. A corporate identity has also been established for them as well. Do you want to talk about the challenges moving forward, Patrick?

MR. MILNER: One of the big things is when you start a new idea, it can be intimidating to really get out there in the open and get out into the public and get your information out there because people are then interested and they want to find out. You have to be organized, you have to understand what you're trying to accomplish and what your funds are going to be spent on and that sort of thing. So we spent a lot of time really talking about that over the last couple of years, concluding with our business plan. So we are ready to go, let's get this thing out there, there is this dream that young people will take over and pick up the torch and get involved with different remembrance organizations. I think all of us understand where that is coming from.

We need funding. We've done an awful lot, I think. I'm quite proud of it, I know a lot of the board of directors are very proud of the work we have done with very little funds. The hockey patch program is a really great example of the kind of reach and the

kind of momentum that can happen when there are some funds that are donated to different programs that have that kind of effect.

MR. BAILEY: So the proposal has been handed out here for - essentially it is all the components to a documentary that we are currently working on. Patrick, in my eyes, has laid the foundation. I met Patrick four years ago, he introduced himself and the society. At that point it was pretty much a dream without any - well, I guess at the end of the day it has really come to this point now where it is really this thing. The mechanisms are in place, it's simply a matter of creating this awareness to the youth, that already through polling Veterans Affairs, have indicated that there is a great amount of interest in these issues and we also conducted some of our own market research. There seems to be a strong desire by the youth to find out more information, and the society would actually fill that void.

What I am trying to do here now is package this and put it five years into the future, by creating a documentary that will basically allow the youth to be aware of this organization. We call it Heroes' Journey, Over There and Back. Our goal for the documentary is very much in line with the actual society itself. How we are going to achieve this is through this pilgrimage to Europe, which Patrick was talking about. What we want to do is take 10 students over to Europe, going from London over to Amsterdam, and turn this trip into a documentary about their journey.

Lest We Forget - this tag line on today's youth, after conducting a bit of market research, we realize that its true intended meaning is not easily being extracted from this market. It is hard to remember something that has not happened in your lifetime. What we have done, what we're going to show you now is a rough mock-up of what the beginning of this documentary might look like. We actually shot this a few weeks back.

[The mock-up was played for the committee.]

MR. BAILEY: So we produced that to give you kind of a sense of the quality that we're looking at achieving, but also those students were really pulled off the street, literally, 30 minutes before we actually shot that. They were not prepped in any way. That's a random sample of our youth in Canada today.

What we want to do with this documentary is to actually get it into the school system on Remembrance Day of next year. It would reach over 2 million high school kids in that age demographic, and literally catapult this whole organization nationally, in a day. So that's one of our main avenues to actually show it. We also want to look through distributors and have this sold in stores but also through libraries across the country. Also, with our new Web site we want to stream this for a year, for free downloads for anyone who is now visiting the site and we'll have a national reach with our PSA, that they would be able to access this there, for free. Also, Patrick will use this

as a piece of collateral in information school sessions, when he goes into the actual schools he would show this or parts of it.

The reason this documentary will really resonate, the heart and soul of this documentary is really seeing through their eyes. It's a reflection of questions that are asked. That's the main aspect of this documentary.

Now I don't know if anyone is familiar with Joseph Campbell. He published a number of books and in one of his books he talks about this hero's journey, which essentially is laid out into three different sections. What he did is he studied world mythology and he really discovered that we have far more in common than we have against each other. You kind of see this common story that's laid out in these three main sections: your summons on your quest, facing challenges in a foreign land and then the return home. This storyline has been implemented in many, many movies - Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, Harry Potter, I could go on and on. This format just simply works, it really resonates, especially with youth but with all ages.

The first portion of this documentary will be not unlike what you saw here a minute ago; interviewing 10 of our heroes and finding our main stories inside this documentary. We will then make a slow transition into discussion of war, first talking about contemporary soldiers who are below 25 years of age and who have fought in recent conflicts, maybe in Afghanistan or in other places around the world. Then we actually take our journey over to Europe, starting in London and working our way over to Amsterdam. We will first talk about bullying, school bullying and leading into current world situations.

Secondly, topics of war will be discussed. Dictatorship and genocide will be two examples. Now the real beauty of this is how it's truly captured and how we really have a true reflection of their thoughts on these conversations. Aside from having a film crew, we're also going to equip them with DVD camcorders and have them create a video diary as we move along. The heart and soul of the documentary will be their reflections. It won't be a matter of simply us telling them facts and then absorbing it, it will be a reflection of them.

The beauty part of this is that the end user, the target market that actually sees this, will actually see a reflection of themselves. They'll see their peers talking to them, rather than simply receiving facts and figures about dates and events.

The final portion of the documentary is the return home. What we'll do is re-interview these same students about a month after they've made their journey, asking them basically a lot of the same questions that we asked at the beginning of the documentary, but seeing their changed questions.

Now a journey like this at this age would be life-changing pretty much for anybody, and combined with the conversations we'll have, we are very confident that the students would be changed and they would want to share their experiences with their peers and have a desire to educate others. We want to capture this in the documentary. So we're going to achieve the goal by educating the youth for a healthier tomorrow by reaching an entire generation in one day, allowing them to view this documentary through their own eyes, in a true desire and interest for further education. Of course, the Canadian Youth Remembrance Society has that main vehicle, using their Web site as a portal into that world.

Your creative team would be David Gaines, he would be a co-director - he won best documentary for his most recent documentary at Palm Beach International Film Festival and the Vail Film Festival as well and he's currently under production and just wrapping up a project about the Hubble Telescope; Hillary Cutter, President of Cutter Productions, who has worked with some high profile clients like IBM, Court TV News and Virgin Mobile, to name just a few; and myself, President of Fresh Advertising and Fresh Productions. Actually Cutter Productions and my agency produced this spot which was recently launched, that you may recognize.

[The advertisement was played.]

[9:30 a.m.]

MR. BAILEY: So we're moving into pre-production shortly. We'll be filming over January to April 2007. Editing and animation will be done next summer; air date is - really the main thing we want to do here is launch this on Remembrance Day of 2007 in the school system. Our budget for the project - this is our budget breakdown. We're currently attacking this from a number of different angles, looking for federal funding, provincial funding and corporate sponsorship. We currently have two people working for us in the federal government who are confident that if we can raise the remaining 50 per cent, hopefully we'll be able to get the other 50 per cent. Bill Casey and Peter Stoffer are both helping us with that aspect of it.

The other avenue and what you have in front of you is the proposal for the actual documentary, as well as the corporate sponsorship package which we are - we are going after the corporate community, we are going after a large number of corporate sponsors, like Tim Hortons and universities and other perfect fits for this. Lastly, we're looking for a chunk of provincial money to make up the rest. We aren't looking from any one particular province, we would love to make this go as far as we can and actually allow that cost to be divided amongst those provinces.

So there are basically three things that we're asking for your advice and help on today. We would like to get sponsorship for a boy and a girl from every province to go

on the trip. It's at a cost of $3,500 each. Also, support getting into all the schools; we're meeting with the Minister of Education here shortly, in the next two weeks I believe, to discuss this, but we would love to get help to get into the school systems. This would greatly help with our corporate sponsorship for sure. And the remaining 25 per cent of the total budget, again, we're looking to get this from the provinces and the more provinces that we have, the more national this project becomes, which is really what the society is about, is stretching across the country.

That's it. I'll turn the floor over to you guys, if you have any questions.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay, thank you very much, gentlemen, it was a great presentation. You have quite an undertaking ahead of you and I guess speaking as the grandson of a man who fought and died on the beaches in France, hats off to you gentlemen for putting it forward. I know the floor will have questions, so I will open it up to questions. Mr. Paris.

MR. PERCY PARIS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have a couple of questions and I guess I'll just take one and maybe share the floor with some other people. This is first of all a comment. I, too - my father served in the war, a very well-decorated and well-respected individual. Thank goodness he's still living. One of the things that I noticed when I watched the videos is - one of the first things I noticed and maybe it's because I'm of African descent, was the lack of diversity in the videos themselves. It didn't sort of represent, I guess, Canadian society.

MR. BAILEY: That's a very good point. I would just like to say, too, those four kids who were representing, they were literally pulled off the street 30 minutes before and although we would love to have more ethnic diversity and a greater representation of this great country, unfortunately this was really, truly a random sample and they just happened to be the ethnicity and the race that they were. Really, we had no choice. We had to shoot it within a very short window. The actual documentary itself would definitely reflect that, for sure. A very good point.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Glavine.

MR. LEO GLAVINE: I certainly applaud you on the work you've done so far, and hopefully things will be successful as you move forward. One of the great organizations that we have in the country that has been working with the entire population in keeping remembrance of the sacrifices made alive is the Legion. I was wondering, are you doing any work with the Legion? I'm very familiar, here in Nova Scotia, of course, with the Legion Leadership Training Camp and the kind of work they've done in schools. I'm just wondering if you're doing any kind of coordination in that respect?

MR. MILNER: Yes. We're in constant attempts to meet with the Legion and to work with them. I know that there's a gentleman you probably know, Tom Waters, a zone commander for Zone 15, which is this area. He's known across the province. He has been a very big supporter. I know that one of the other hats I wear is the treasurer of my branch of the Royal Canadian Legion. I'm pretty young in my Legion. They're very supportive.

In terms of getting into the traditions that currently exist, they're very supportive. The Legion is an organization that obviously has a very proud history and heritage, and they're very traditional people. These kinds of things are new, if I can say it that way. What I think we're going to do is we're looking to do this kind of a forum with the Legion, and we're going to continue to keep the dialogue going. Veterans Affairs Canada has been very supportive, in reaching out to all the veterans associations. We actually met with two of their Canada Remembers officers yesterday, and we gave them the exact same presentation. They were very pleased with how we've come over the years. We now have an organization. I think what they emphasized is that we're really prepared now to talk to organizations like the Legion. We have something to say, we have a track record, some accomplishments.

What I like about the Royal Canadian Legion, and I know that Mr. Casey raised this point as well, is that the Legions are really out there, they're in little communities. In a lot of these places they're the only service organization in those little communities across the province. Sort of partnering up with that is really important. To answer your question, yes. We are doing that, but no partnership has been built yet.

MR. GLAVINE: So far then, what have you done in terms of making inroads into schools? I know that's where this has to go to have a generation, and the next generation that will be still remembering but also becoming knowledgeable about war and the need for peace versus war as a means of dealing with conflict. I'm just wondering, what kind of approaches do you hope to foster with schools across the country? You talked about meeting with the Minister of Education, but it is going to come down to a lot of individual schools. This may not necessarily be part of the curriculum or a program. I'm just wondering, what kind of exploration have you done there?

MR. MILNER: I can tell you a lot about that. Jamie hinted on a lot of them. Some of them came up - really, the last year we've been in the start-up mode. We've met with a lot of teachers, and they're very supportive. As you know, the curriculum is very full. So, like you alluded to there, it's not really about getting into the curriculum, I don't think we're really taking that approach. This is really about making it their own, really about trying to take that step to say to young people, like the young girl said there, the young lady, it's really up to me, as well, to be educated.

Information sessions. We've talked with Joe Bishara - you would know about Joe, he has that Maple Grove club down in Yarmouth. He has been a great advisor. We've talked to teachers from around the province, who have done trips overseas and things of that nature, so the outreach is there. Building the corporate identity, all these things to package it to get it into the schools; the forum is another example, a really positive one, where we're going to invite representatives from across the province to come to one location, have a session where we talk about remembrance, listen to keynote speakers and have start-up packages so they can take that back and implement it in their schools and it has a lot of room to, again, maintain the traditions that are unique to each community.

This would happen across the country but you have to start somewhere, so we're in Nova Scotia, in Halifax, and we've made a lot of inroads with some of the private schools. Queen Elizabeth High School and St. Pat's are merging and we've got talks of doing different kinds of projects next year around remembrance with them, like theatre presentations - I know that would raise some bells. Jamie, do you want to add to that, maybe?

MR. BAILEY: I was going to say that we are also implementing kind of a portal strategy, too. Right now what Patrick has done is built the components of this organization and it's really about now implementing these components. One way we're trying to do that is by watching this PSA and having it air across the country, that will actually generate youth - this is a youth-driven organization and we want the youth to be aware of it and actually push this into the school system, where if they go on-line and go into this information portal, the Web site, they can actually book sessions in their own school and actually access the information, and hopefully pull it into their own school system as well.

MR. MILNER: Not to be negative, but you won't see me flying to B.C. to do an information session probably in the first few, unless it's sort of a keynote speaker kind of thing, or something like that, but certainly locally, in the province, we'll be working that way. If somebody clicks on-line in Toronto or British Columbia or Quebec or somewhere and wants to do something in their school and this is a vehicle for them, I want to make sure that they have some sort of a package that allows them to go out, have some sort of support through our fundraising initiatives, to help them upstart something that gets information into the school and gets young people sort of excited about the topic of remembrance and enhances what they do in their communities.

That's one thing that we've heard time and time again, well, we do this and we're really proud of that and how does this sort of fit in with what we're doing. Well, you fit in with what we're doing, we fit in with what you're doing and try to sort of come together, if you will. I mean we could go on and on about that, but it has to start somewhere.

MR. GLAVINE: Okay, I'll pass it on.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Dunn.

MR. PATRICK DUNN: Once again, congratulations for all the work you've done so far, I'm impressed with your presentation. Up to this point, you mentioned identifying corporate sponsors and so on. Did you get any real commitments yet from any corporate sponsors?

MR. BAILEY: We don't have any commitments right now. We're basically - this idea came about back in May or June. We've accomplished a lot of things, like building the Web site, the PSA and this proposal document, and it has only been in the past few weeks that we've really been ready to meet with people. We do have a lot of feelers out there and we're attacking over 30 companies directly and we do have a lot of feelers out there and we're hoping to wrap that up within the next - oh, by the end of November we'd like to have that corporate sponsorship completely signed and ready to go.

One of the major things, really, for corporate sponsors is to know that they - one of the major selling features right now is that this will be aired on Remembrance Day, so we have to kind of make sure that's going to happen, too, before we probably get anything signed firm. That's one of the reasons why we need help with that.

MR. MILNER: One of the drivers of this documentary happening is that we're trying to time it - we want to go overseas to see the Vimy Memorial. There's a set date for that, that's sort of a one-off event that I think a lot of Canadians are going to be very interested in.

One of the things that's working against us is that the federal government really hasn't gotten out to the public that this is happening in any great way, so I don't think a lot of people - there are some key groups across the country that are aware of it. I did some research and said hey, that's a neat idea, let's jump on that and take advantage of this and see if we can get some - and while we're over there, we might as well do a trip to see some of these other things, like the Juno Beach Centre, to go all through France, to go through Belgium, some really neat traditions that happen there, go right into the Netherlands where we've heard so much about how well they do Remembrance over there, because of the - you know Peter Stoffer has been a very big voice but what happens over there, just amazing stories that we've never really seen, like this girl was saying on the video.

So really, that's working in our favour because a lot of people want us to be successful in that endeavour and think that it's worth some key people getting over there and if we're going over, let's join the national momentum and be part of this. So this has had a tremendous resonance with the corporate community and I know that some of the

people we've outreached with before, they really have their eye on this kind of thing, it's very positive. It's difficult to really say no to something so positive, and something that so many people want to happen. I just wanted to add that, Jamie, to what you're saying. That's what is motivating the urgency to make it happen sooner than later, perhaps.

MR. DUNN: With regard to promoting this, and I'm thinking from the school base, with regard to history, social studies, teachers and so on, even leadership courses that are offered in our high schools across the province, a suggestion, perhaps, would be a cross-section of a couple of students from various schools across the province, having an in-service day for them to go back to their respective classes and continue the groundwork at their schools and so on. Also, it's probably too late right now, but every year on the third Friday of October the province has a provincial in-service day. It would have been a good opportunity to put on a workshop, on that particular day, somewhere in the province, or even if you could spread your personnel and be in various places on that particular day, dealing with this. It would have been beneficial, also.

[9:45 a.m.]

MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Gosse.

MR. GORDON GOSSE: Thank you very much for a beautiful presentation this morning. Just a couple of quick ones - are we the first group to have seen this? How many other provinces have been shown this? How many other provinces have you lobbied in your cause?

MR. MILNER: This is the first. We only showed this presentation yesterday to Veterans Affairs, this particular presentation.

MR. GOSSE: Do you have a schedule of planned showings of this presentation to other provinces? I know we are the only province in Canada that has a Veterans Affairs Committee. I'm wondering what avenue in the provinces you will be going after for funding.

MR. BAILEY: One of the approaches that we're taking is we're actually here today to hopefully spark enough interest to be able to allow us information on how we would approach other provinces. We're looking for your advice on how to do that, and how we could spread out those costs over a number of different provinces.

MR. GOSSE: Something that's just off the topic, I'm just wondering if the Youth Remembrance Society has any plan for the Year of the War Bride.

MR. MILNER: We're probably going to partner with groups that have something happening. I know the Royal Canadian Legion is an excellent - Pier 21 has some stuff

happening. We have our official office at Pier 21. I used to work there. Our advisers with the business planning thought this would be an excellent six months to get organized for April 1^st. So we're not going to take on any new, major sort of Remembrance projects other than the ones that we already have, like encouraging people to go to the cenotaphs and to get involved with the poppy campaign and things of that nature. That's really something where our time is well spent, sort of tagging on with these people and continuing to build those bridges, the traditions that people want us to pick up and carry on. That's where we're focusing a lot of that positive energy, if that answers your question.

MR. GOSSE: The only other thing was, I know you're familiar with understanding this committee doesn't have a budget that we can offer stuff, but we can support organizations and groups through the committee effort and maybe point you in the right direction or help or whatever support from the committee.

MR. MILNER: One of the things that Jamie and I talked a lot about, and I've gotten a feel for this over the last five years, really, and it's a really nice feeling that this is a really safe topic for everyone to get involved with equally in the province. It's non-partisan and it's a safe thing to get involved with. I'm hoping that this will be a real spearhead group that you represent, that can help us validate what we're doing and encourage us to keep going, and encourage people, like the ministers and the decision makers who will ultimately make those funding decisions to say, look, an all-Party committee is behind this and is supporting this and we have helped them iron out some of the details, and if they were heading in the wrong direction, we got them on the right direction.

If there was a way to let people like the Minister of Education, Minister Casey, know that we were here or, for example, if you guys wanted to talk to Mr. Stoffer or if anybody here is friends with Mr. Casey, anybody in Ottawa - we, the Canadian Youth Remembrance Society, have made a decision that we're going to shoot to the level that everybody wants it to become. We could start a club where we have 50 members, and we'd be a club for the rest of our existence, or we can do what we're striving to do, which is to make the world a better place. Canada has a role. I know I'm better because I got involved. I was 28 when I started, and things are completely different. If I could move that back 10 years to when I was 18 when I started, I don't know, things would be quite a bit better, I think.

That's what I'm trying to accomplish. This kind of thing is really about having the courage and building the support and getting everybody to say, you know what, we talk about it an awful lot, wouldn't it be nice if this happened, wouldn't it be nice if that happened, let's do it. That's the approach we're taking. People say that's not really that much money, when it comes to changing the province and ultimately the country.

What I'm really proud about, for me, if I could just keep rambling on, is that this is a great place to be, to start. As Mr. Gosse said, Nova Scotia is an excellent spot to be starting this kind of a national initiative. What I have learned at Pier 21, in a really big way, is that Nova Scotians have contributed - really, when you look at the whole bulk of the last century, when it comes to military heritage - approximately one-third of the resources, human resources, for these world wars and conflicts; we have also roughly shared taking on the casualties as well. We have a tremendous buy-in from the public in this province to really be a leader in that.

The standing committee, to me, should be beefed up. I think you guys should have the opportunity to have a budget. Maybe when I make millions of dollars, we'll make sure we donate some to you guys, in trust, so that you can hand it out to these little organizations around the province. I know, looking at the Hansard, you get lots of these groups that are not sure what you do, like I was two years ago, I didn't realize that, and at the end of the day if you have faith in young people and you take a chance on them, good things will happen. You can be guaranteed that people make mistakes, and young people tend to make more than most people, but nothing happens unless you take the first step.

This is an excellent advisory committee for the young people in this province, and it should be a standing committee, it should continue. On record, I'm validating everything you're doing.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you for that.

Mr. Paris.

MR. PARIS: I have a couple of quick questions. I want to have a bit of a preamble. I just heard you talk about young people making mistakes, and I fully agree with you. I believe that if we plant the right seeds in our youth, they may stray from the path occasionally but they're always going to come back to the right way. I think any initiative that's going to provide education - it was good to see on your presentation that you made the tie-in with respect to war and the public school system. You had a bulletin there about bullying, and what some of the aftermath could be. It's good to see that tie-in.

The other question I wanted to ask is, what point are you at now with respect to seeking partnerships abroad, or are you at that stage yet?

MR. MILNER: Overseas?

MR. PARIS: Overseas.

MR. MILNER: Not very far. The Norwegian Consul for Nova Scotia, his name is Steinar Engeset - the Convoy Cup, you may have heard of the Convoy Cup that went around the harbour. He's a driving force behind that, and certainly the convoys that ended up in Norway as a landing point, a friendly port during the Second World War, and I think the First World War as well. He did mention that if we wanted to talk to Allied countries for example, say we're going into a community that has - there's one community in Belgium, there's a big arch, and every day the fire department goes out and does a little bugle thing, the traffic stops - have you heard of that? Have any of you heard of that tradition over there? I just found out about it.

Anyway, those types of people may be able to help us, say these people are coming, they'd like to be a part of the ceremony, and we might be able to put some of that in the documentary. But to what level were you referring?

MR. PARIS: I wasn't referring to any particular level, I was just wondering if you had started that contact abroad to see if there could be some partnerships with those countries that you want to visit, whether it be the Netherlands or Great Britain or whatever the case may be, if they also would be interested in doing some type of partnership. I think by creating those kinds of partnerships, you have greater leverage when it comes to soliciting money here in Canada.

MR. MILNER: That's correct. You know my sense of it is that they have a tremendous - they would be very honoured to support any Canadian who wanted to honour the people who did so much for them as well. They have an interest in that as well.

We're here right now, and if you're referring to things like the International Youth Remembrance Society and things like that, that's 25 years away maybe, but yes, I mean that's in my head. I know it's hard enough to just get it happening here but if they could show an example for young people, if the youth of the Netherlands, for example, had a way of - if young people could actually see something physical, like what Jamie produced here, see what they do over there, that girl was really changed. When we talked to her, she was just like wow, that doesn't happen in Canada, was her response and she was just amazed at that kind of passion and just what it meant to be a Canadian.

When I was 18, I went over to England and I was told, behave yourself over there, so we did the exact opposite, right, and we went into this pub and I'm telling you, it was amazing what just having a little maple leaf did. I just couldn't believe it and I had no idea why that was happening.

[9:55 a.m. Mr. Patrick Dunn took the Chair.]

MR. PARIS: So yes, it might be important to build on that. How far have you gone? I know this may be driven by a budget, but what are going to be the prerequisites and how do you determine the students who are going to go?

MR. BAILEY: Oh, one thing that would be great, if we actually had funding for at least a boy or a girl, or a boy and a girl from each province, if they were funded we would have kind of a contest, an essay-writing contest where they would write in why they would go and we would go through a process of evaluating that and picking - not a random sample, because we're picking them, but trying to pick a representative group from Canada that would represent all classes and not really picking on one particular demographic, to really represent the country.

MR. PARIS: A point of clarification, at least for me, sometimes I'm a little slow on the upbeat. Right now you're still in start-up mode basically, correct?

MR. BAILEY: Yes.

MR. PARIS: And it's not a national initiative yet but the goal is to make it a national initiative. You're starting here and you're going to Newfoundland and Labrador and then going west, is that the role? Part of the role that you're here is for information and to solicit some input, as far as help goes, for us to help you in achieving the goal.

MR. BAILEY: As far as funding goes, we are attacking this from three different points of view: federal government, provincial government and corporate sponsorship. We feel we have a strong handle and we're moving in the right direction with federal and corporate sponsorship. What we're asking here today is really guidance in how we move forward and basically achieving 25 per cent of the budget through provincial means.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Colwell.

[9:57 a.m. Mr. Chuck Porter resumed the Chair.]

MR. KEITH COLWELL: I'd like to thank you for coming in today, too. I think this is a great initiative you have undertaken. My father-in-law landed on Vimy Beach, in the first wave, and his description, when he was alive, wasn't very nice. He told me about the water turning red with blood and people dying all around him, it was quite a scene. My father served in Italy and Africa. Luckily both of them made it home, with many mental scars and my father with a very serious injury.

It's important that the young people understand exactly what was sacrificed by those and all the individuals who went overseas, in all the wars, and actually the war we have going on now in Afghanistan and the horrors that people come home with that change their lives forever, and not for the positive, that's for sure.

I think it's great to get the youth involved. There are more and more in attendance at the Remembrance Day ceremonies - not enough yet, as far as I'm concerned, but it's coming and anything you can do to promote that.

I'd make some suggestions to you as you go through the process. This is a big project you've undertaken here and I understand that. One thing I would suggest you do is get hold of the Department of External Affairs directly, federally, and let them know about your initiative. I think you'll find them quite helpful. Also, you should contact the embassies, the Canadian Embassies in the countries you plan to visit. Do that early, they may actually be able to suggest some companies because they deal with a lot of companies in the areas they represent. They may actually be able to sponsor some of your students when they come in the way of accommodations or functions that they can participate in.

I think that will open some doors for you that you can't imagine. I know I've travelled extensively with my business, prior to this business, and you'll find External Affairs and the embassies incredible to deal with. They're on the street, they know the people, they know how to do things, and the traditions and everything. It will be more than just a regular trip if you can get them involved in this. You'll see some doors open that just don't open.

I have a very good friend from France who's very wealthy. He tells me the story that he was on a business trip, he was at a hotel, and the Canadians were there, one of the Remembrances they had, a lot of Canadian soldiers and veterans went there to visit. There was a gentleman in the hallway, sleeping in the hall. He asked him, where are you from? He said, I'm from Canada. He said, why are you sleeping in the hall? He said, no rooms. He said, you come sleep in my bed and I'll sleep on the floor.

[10:00 a.m.]

That's how Canadians are respected. This gentleman actually owns the whole town he lives in, a whole town in France. So he's not a person you would ever think would do this, but he remembers when the Canadians came through France and how they liberated. So I think if you can work through the Department of External Affairs, you might be surprised at what you might turn up outside of Canada, plus it would give your organization the international connection that I think you're going to need.

If you see some of the young people going over and actually participating in these functions, as has already been said by my colleagues here, I think, with the one young girl you've had there and from seeing some of this myself, they're going to be changed people when they come back. I think it will be better for our province and our country if that happens.

As was already said, we're not a funding committee, but there was a suggestion made that we might write a letter of support for what you're doing, and I would be very willing to agree with that and move that forward. Hopefully - you're probably looking for more like $150,000, $170,000 by the time you add in all the other stuff you want there, but if each province or most of the provinces participate, it's not a lot of money for each province. If each province gave $12,000 to $20,000, it's not very much money, you would achieve your goal quite easily, and then tie everybody in. I would be very willing to support that, and it sounds like my colleagues would, too.

Hopefully you can get the funding you need in time. The trouble with a lot of government is it's a slow process to get there. If there's anything that I can personally do to help you, let me know. I'm sure my colleagues would indicate the same.

MR. BAILEY: We would greatly appreciate that.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Zinck.

MR. TREVOR ZINCK: Thank you for coming in. I don't normally sit on the committee, but I did take time last night to read over the business plan and I was very impressed. I am the youngest member on the panel, but I can honestly say that I've been in contact with many veterans over the years. Some of the stories that you do hear, if they are able and wanting to tell them, are quite moving. I think a lot of what we hear, and the young lady in the video had talked about, is that sense of pride, what really does Canada represent. I think a lot of youth - we talked today about not having respect or remembering, but to me this country really has to realize, and it's a great start to go with the youth, how proud we should be to be Canadian. Taking an opportunity to go overseas would definitely allow that.

Mr. Paris had touched on my initial question, which would be going to the schools, selecting the students who will take the trip, is that going to be one of the things that you're going to talk to the Minister of Education about? Understanding that you want to coordinate this with the April 9^th unveiling, it's going to be a process that's going to have to go pretty quickly. I'm just wondering, is that also going to be available to all schools? I know in the business plan you made mention of several private schools. I guess what I'm trying to hear or what I would like to hear is that it's going to be made available to all students across the province.

MR. MILNER: Yes, the business plan, it's not static, it's fluid, I guess is the word. We can change it as we go and they came up with that. It was done by a lot of professional experts, Ph.D. professors.

MR. PARIS: That's dangerous.

MR. BAILEY: The business plan doesn't really talk about the documentary and it doesn't really include the documentary as a component to it, so yes, this is not going to be a private school documentary, for sure. This would, again, be one to represent Canada, the youth of Canada, and it would not be targeted towards a specific class at all. This would be for everybody.

MR. ZINCK: It's very important for me. I deal with a lot of youth at risk and I'm sure there are several out there who have spoken or who have family members who have been in wars, so it's nice to know that would be made available to them.

One of the other questions I have, and it wasn't mentioned today but it is in the business plan, is the bracelets. That is ongoing, that is going to continue, you're going to unveil that, I think, in May?

MR. MILNER: Yes, May is the time frame for that. We're going to sort of - that's what young people are into, bracelets. That's sort of the new thing and it probably will be for a few years. So with the research they did, they thought bracelets. That's going to continue and that'll help us get a few. We're hoping that this trip will really resonate with young people and there will be that momentum coming back from this trip, to make that a reality. I'm very excited about that, I think that's really neat.

We were talking yesterday about that with Veterans Affairs Canada. It's a very positive area for us to start up that kind of initiative in that time frame because there is a lot of - there's a void in May. A lot of things happened in May, like the Battle of the Atlantic and D-Day and all that stuff happens around that time of year. We have the days traditionally designed which are November and so having that desire to move it along all year long, it's sort of at the end of the calendar year, and yes, that's going to happen. That will be in all the schools and it will be on the Web site so if somebody wants to do it, we can send them some bracelets. It will start small, but it will grow.

MR. ZINCK: I think that's a good point, because I think with the fact that we do celebrate it one day, one of the things that I've always said is that I remember every day. We are pretty much in contact, as elected officials, with a large number of groups and organizations and a lot of them are made up of veterans. So I think that's important to have some sort of symbol of that. I commend you on attempting - not only because the market is dictating it but I think the bracelet is an excellent idea.

MR. MILNER: Yes, we want to - I'm a big believer in the poppy campaign and we don't want to have two campaigns for Remembrance going on at the same time. We're going to move it over to May and then we'll support the poppy campaign through that, we'll give maybe 20 per cent of it or something. Don't hold me to that, but the board of directors will come up with a percentage and we'll give it out at the annual

luncheon to the President of the Provincial Command and away we go. I think that's very positive.

I know that the university students are not in school, generally speaking, the bulk of them during May. We are going to really work with the Legion - partner-up, as we said, with the partnerships - to work on the poppy campaign in the Fall with the universities and we'll have the partnership that way. I think it's very - I'm really excited about it, I can't wait to get that started. It will start small but it will grow pretty quick, I think.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Bain.

MR. KEITH BAIN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I, too, want to commend you on your initiative. I guess I take a special interest in the schools as well and I agree that schools are the most important place to market the product, because that's our target market that's out there.

I think last year, as Year of the Veteran, it sparked a renewed interest in Remembrance. Certainly in schools in our area, and I'm sure throughout the province, it is very evident of the renewed interest. I recall certain schools in the Cape Breton area where the veterans came, and they did the initial address and everything else.

I guess my question is, when you're using your approach going into the schools initially, will you be involving the veterans at that point? Do you see where I'm going? I'm trying to tie the Year of the Veteran with this coming in and it's a blending or a merging of the whole thing because we all know that initially there were lots of veterans, but there aren't too may out there anymore.

MR. MILNER: Yes, that was my response. It's very difficult to get the veterans from the Second World War now. They are quite elderly and it's a big trip to go from their homes, or wherever they are, to the schools. I know that Veterans Affairs Canada has said the same thing, that we need to start to focus on other ways. I mean we have to, it's a fact of life, but wherever possible, yes. It reinforces what we're talking about.

As Jamie alluded to, if we can get into current serving members, like the Family Resource Centre with DND, they have interesting programs where the actual kids themselves, the teenage kids, children of current serving, what kind of sacrifice it is for them to have members in the service, even during peacetime, if that ever happens, these kinds of things they can relate to, something that reinforces what we're saying because you know, I also find it hard to relate to veterans. When you see them break down and cry and you realize that something is causing this, some memory is causing this, it's different. A lot of veterans say that you don't hear a pin drop when the veterans are

talking. It goes without saying, it's too bad that people have to die because that's really quite a loss, that kind of experience that we had to go through.

So ways to reach them, we record them and that sort of thing but you're right, we will definitely, wherever possible, get a veteran or even bring the kids to the veteran, if that's possible, like going to Camp Hill for an annual or monthly talk and having the veterans just come down that elevator. That's an idea for locally but whatever we can do, yes.

MR. BAIN: I say that just because, again, the Year of the Veteran certainly had our young people talking about things that happened.

MR. BAILEY: And polling indicates that too. It was actually confirmed by Veterans Affairs yesterday, that the polling before and after - that awareness of the Year of the Veteran was huge, and a lot of people are asking questions.

It's kind of interesting to me, as a fact, that Generation X, the most vivid memory they have, an entire generation growing up, was the space shuttle Challenger exploding in 1984. Now fast forward and look at this youth market that we're talking about today, I mean look at what happened five years ago, it's a very different picture. There is a different tone in atmosphere that exists with today's youth. Our market research confirms this ourselves. We did a lot of one-on-one interviews with people in high school. There seems to be - and as you can kind of sense from the footage we showed you - there is a strong interest in learning more. They don't know what they don't know, but they know they don't know something and they really want to know what that is.

MR. BAIN: Finally, Mr. Chairman, if I could, just a comment. I think the excellent part about your program is that bullying was mentioned. It's a norm today and that, in itself, is going to create interest. What I like is the fact that it's more of a hands-on approach rather than Keith Bain standing up and lecturing to somebody, whether they're listening to me or not, they're involved in it. I think that, in itself, is going to spark the interest.

Like everyone who sat here, I think this committee will help in any way they can to further your cause. I really appreciate what you brought forward.

MR. BAILEY: Thank you for that. This is really about peers educating peers, this is a youth-driven organization and the documentary will really reflect - the end users will see themselves; it is not simply preaching, it's youth educating youth.

MR. MILNER: It will always be hands-on. What you are seeing is what you're going to get from now on. I went through the school system so I learned something, and one thing that I don't like being told is that you must do this because we say this is good

for you. That's destructive in a way. You learn that it's important and you have respect and you know okay, well, you have to have respect, but you leave sort of going, well, what was it that Remembrance Day really meant to me? Like at the time - I don't know if it's changing - there was nothing on TV really, the stores were all closed, it seemed like the day shut down.

A lot of teachers we talked to think that they should go to school on Remembrance Day so they can just focus on Remembrance activities that whole day. But instead, they go away and they play Nintendo games and do whatever. That's some of the feedback we get.

I know that when young people get behind something, that energy and the excitement, and if you build it the way they want it - it's really an amazing thing. I know all of you have probably felt that in different capacities, and yourselves, I'm sure - it's human nature. To simply stand and watch something happen that other people have done, year after year - we were actually told that the Remembrance ceremony is focused mainly for the veterans. That was one thing that we learned, that I never really alluded to, that the tradition of Remembrance, the civic ceremony was for veterans. It was all about the veterans, it was for them to deal with things that they needed to deal with, and the rest were observers, we watched it. That has to change, and is changing. We need young people to be a part of that Remembrance ceremony.

I know I got invited - this gentleman here, the veteran, Tony Burns, he's the president of the annual church service at St. Agnes, they do it every year. It's well attended by a lot of veterans and leaders and that sort of thing. I went - I'm the new experiment, I guess, to get young people involved. There's no room in the church for anybody else to go, really, but the idea of doing a second church service - my point is there are no young people. There might have been six or seven, maybe a dozen young people out of almost 1,000 people. That kind of tradition is not resonating with young people. To allow young people to be a part of that stuff really says, all right, this is for us, too. I could go on and on about this.

[10:15 a.m.]

MR. BAIN: Again, I think that's the important part of the melding together, at this point. The veterans, those who are still active, still feel they have a lot to contribute. I think everyone working together is going to benefit your cause as well.

MR. BAILEY: And passing the torch as well.

MR. BAIN: Yes, it's just a flow.

MR. BAILEY: The transition.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Dunn.

MR. DUNN: As your program gains momentum, I'm sure you'll receive lots of support. It's a very easy program to support. We've all been touched, I'm sure, most of us across the province, in one way or another as far as a relative or a friend or a neighbour. My uncle was a POW for over two years in the Second World War. Word came back to the province that he was lost in action, and he reappeared in 1945 after the war was over. This past summer, Pictou County opened up a military museum, which I was very pleased about. It's located in New Glasgow.

Perhaps a couple of suggestions. You could think of maybe using the regional libraries as a focus point to promote your program throughout the province. With regard to the schools, they are extremely busy, and all personnel in the schools are busy. I would suggest that perhaps you try to have a contact person in the schools. One way of perhaps doing that - the boards have principals' meetings, usually once a month. You might phone the board office and talk to the CEO or whatever and ask to get on the program for the day, just for a minor presentation to the principals, who will then go back to their schools and perhaps, now that they are aware of it, they can be that contact person, or get a contact person in their respective schools and so on, just to tie those things in and make it a little easier for you to promote your program.

MR. MILNER: Just to clarify that, is that a board-by-board process, that they have these principals' meetings?

MR. DUNN: Yes, for example, the Chignecto-Central Regional School Board - usually the principals will meet once a month. They all congregate in the area, perhaps Truro. During that particular day, I think it would be beneficial, for example, if you're able to take 30 minutes and speak to them about your program, as opposed to literature arriving at the school. Every day there is tons of mail coming in. To me, this is such an important thing, I'd hate that process to occur and have it be kind of left on a counter or a desk. If you have that contact person, I think the chances of it being successful . . .

MR. BAILEY: Obviously, we can't do that for the entire country. Are you saying that we would do that for this province?

MR. DUNN: Yes, I was just looking at this particular province, Nova Scotia.

MR. BAILEY: Could you suggest any other way that you think we could - that is a great idea, but it would be time-consuming and where time is an issue, would there be another way we could reach the school system? We're talking to the Minister of Education, that's the avenue that we're taking, but aside from that, what else could we be doing that would be . . .

MR. DUNN: I always thought the personal touch is always the best way to go. However, perhaps through student services in the various high schools, guidance counsellors, and so on would be another avenue.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Glavine.

MR. GLAVINE: Just a couple of things to continue with here. Mr. Dunn and I have that maybe unfortunate reality in our lives where we've been educators, so we always want to continue our educating and our teaching, or at least offering some possibilities. With that, it's important that you not diminish the role of the Legion here in your work. The Legion is still the prominent vehicle in Canada to work at educating our youth. I understand where you're coming from and the need for some new approaches, and I absolutely commend you for that.

I like the idea of you starting, perhaps, even more regionally, here in Nova Scotia, Newfoundland and Labrador, Atlantic Canada, because, as Mr. Gosse has said - I think it was Mr. Gosse - the enormity of the contribution to Canada's effort has been from Eastern Canada. There's no question about that. Make sure, because I know the Legion does some very good things already, and their leadership program has had, I know, tremendous impacts in some of the schools. That's where I was going to head you towards.

There are already some really significant and well-done programs in our schools that are departing from the traditional Remembrance Day service. In the old school where I taught, West Kings District High School - which is very close to the military base, 14 Wing Greenwood - last year, a number of students there did a movie. They made a movie for Remembrance Day, and it was an absolute knockout with the student population. You could actually see the consequence of it.

I've gone to the Remembrance Day service in the community since I arrived there, and the number of young people was significantly higher, and I think in good measure to what they experienced in that school program. So when they had the day off, they connected it with what they had been presented with. This year, I know the students are doing the entire program at West Kings.

One of the things in terms of planning your trip and centring it around Vimy, growing up in Newfoundland I know the connection of Vimy Ridge, and perhaps the most significant contribution to Vimy was the number of Newfoundlanders who died at that site. It resonates in Newfoundland, the Vimy connection. I think you need to make that strong when you do go to Newfoundland. Again, work with people who know the story and who know the families and so on associated with it.

The other thing, when the teacher at my old school, she is one of the people who works with the Legion Leadership Training Camp in Nova Scotia, a lady by the name of Donna Griffin. She was asked by the Legion to take the trip to Europe, to Holland. They took a vet with them. Her account is one of the most remarkable accounts that I have heard anybody present. You can actually visualize it, because she presents it so well, through music and verse and so on.

Having that vet with them was the difference, on a great scale, in success. It may be one of the things that you can look at. Believe it or not, there are still some of the vets who are in pretty good shape physically. When this vet arrived in some of the communities with the Canadian delegation, that's when they really captured what the Canadian presence in 1944 and 1945 - in the country of Holland in particular - was able to be captured. How they received and really took hold of this vet in these communities, and the way he was literally adored. I think it may be, again, another experience for the students who go over there.

I want to applaud the Canadian dimension here, but I would suggest work to be strong regionally first and then move out from there. It's a big undertaking that you're doing. I've just seen in my own school life, through the years, how there's a rise and fall, but I think the Year of the Vet now has given some momentum that you can really capture and propel forward with your organization. Those are just a few things. I know Mr. Gosse and I conversed a moment ago, and I think he has something to add.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Gosse.

MR. GOSSE: I'm just going to add that we make a motion that the committee send a letter off to the Premier, the Finance Minister, Minister of Education, supporting the initiative by the Youth Remembrance Society on their program, Hero's Journey. We can draft something up. I wonder if Darlene could draft something up on behalf of the committee, and then get it endorsed by the committee here today, and then send it off in support of this organization.

MR. GLAVINE: I second that.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Seconded by Mr. Glavine. Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.

The motion is carried.

Thank you for that, Mr. Gosse.

MR. MILNER: I just wanted to mention, maybe this committee could - even a copy of it or a letter to the Legion, Provincial Command for Nova Scotia. I know, as Leo

said, they're looking for that validation. (Interruption) George Aucoin. He's a good guy. I've met him, and he knows who I am through my work at the Legion. Are we able to follow up with you guys, if we have any other requests, in terms of just a letter or something? Veterans Affairs Canada, or if we need some help . . .

MR. CHAIRMAN: You will actually get a copy of the letter and any responses we get.

Mr. Colwell, you had a . . .

MR. COLWELL: Yes, I'll amend the motion to include the Legion.

MR. CHAIRMAN: And seconded, okay. That's unanimous, anyway. Thank you for that.

I just had a couple of comments before we let you get away. One was, in your presentation, your video, you changed the wording a little bit to "Lest they forget." "Lest we forget" is something we are very aware of in Nova Scotia and in Canada as we celebrate this day and every day of the year. Is that something that you're looking at changing?

MR. BAILEY: No.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Or is that just something for that particular video?

MR. BAILEY: Well, this is really to show potential investors and people in the government, a sense of the taste and quality of the document we're trying to achieve. It's really like an ad for the actual documentary. Really, the point of highlight they forget is that this whole generation is at jeopardy of forgetting the hard-won lessons that were basically achieved through two World Wars. We don't want them to forget, "Lest they forget."

MR. CHAIRMAN: I guess the only reason I bring it up is it certainly caught my eye very quickly, as someone who has always known it as "Lest we forget." I would anticipate you having that question many times over, especially when it's presented to Legion groups or Legion members, as I am, sitting around a table. That will likely come up.

The other was, just very quickly, you talked about lifetime events and so on and so forth, but I think you mentioned the fact or you sort of stuck with that this is all in the past, this is about remembering those who are dead, and certainly no disrespect to any of that, but there are a good many veterans who are still living and have been very active.

I'm wondering if you should be touching on the accomplishments that those veterans have made throughout the last 50, 60 years.

As well, as Mr. Colwell has mentioned, we are very much at war today in Afghanistan and we are seeing our men and women coming home in coffins and it's a very live and real thing. This isn't just about the World Wars that have gone in the past, this is about the Korean and all the wars, of course. I didn't see a lot of that driven, what the reality is of today and the ongoing future in this whole thing and I think that might be a positive step to take when looking for support, as well. Those are just my comments.

MR. BAILEY: Just to respond to that, we definitely do - I guess the beginning of the documentary will be asking these students the questions, but immediately followed by interviewing contemporary soldiers who are fighting in today's wars and having them reflect on their thoughts on that. Also, the conversations that would start by bullying but lead into current world situations, so we do want to cover it. It's very important that we not only remember but we also look at what's happening today, of course. That also puts it in a context that the students can relate to because they see it every day on TV.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Well, I want to thank you gentlemen for coming in today and giving us a fantastic presentation. I guess we have, as you know, our letter of support will go forward and we look forward to seeing how this all rolls out. Thank you very much.

[10:30 a.m.]

MR. MILNER: We are very honoured to be here, thanks.

MR. BAILEY: Thanks for your support.

MR. CHAIRMAN: I guess the only other thing on the agenda, folks, is our next meeting on Tuesday, November 9^th, that is confirmed and the Canadian Merchant Marines will be who we will have as a witness. Mr. Gosse first and then Mr. Paris.

MR. GOSSE: I'm just wondering, I have to leave very shortly for another meeting in town here. So we have contacted the Merchant Marines and . . .

MR. CHAIRMAN: They are on the agenda as confirmed, that's correct.

MR. GOSSE: The Legion in my area gave me a list of names for the (Interruptions) Okay, great, that's all I wanted to know. Thank you very much.

MR. PARIS: Mr. Chairman, even though it's not on the agenda and I guess we're pretty informal here, I'm just wondering, I'd like to put something on the agenda. Certainly not just for a short discussion, I'd like to recommend to this committee that we

invite Dr. Henry Bishop in to make a presentation to the committee with respect to the Nova Scotia Construction Battalion.

MR. COLWELL: I second that.

MR. CHAIRMAN: It has been moved and seconded. Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.

The motion is carried.

MR. COLWELL: Maybe if could limit it not to just the Construction Battalion but there are other very significant historic events that Dr. Bishop can discuss, so maybe if you leave that a little bit open.

MR. PARIS: Yes, I would like to leave it open because I think one of the topics in particular that we would like to discuss is the annual ceremony that we pay remembrance to, the Construction Battalion in good old Pictou County.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Very good, and we look forward to that discussion, so thank you for that, Mr. Paris.

Any other business, gentlemen, while we're here before we adjourn? Hearing none, we will adjourn. Thank you very much.

[The committee adjourned at 10:32 a.m.]