HANSARD

Printed and Published by Nova Scotia Hansard Reporting Services

VETERANS AFFAIRS COMMITTEE

Mr. Michel Samson (Chairman)

Mr. William Langille

Mr. Cecil O'Donnell

Mr. John Chataway

Mr. Jerry Pye

Mr. Gordon Gosse

Mr. David Wilson (Sackville-Cobequid)

Mr. Harold Theriault

Mr. Stephen McNeil

[Mr. Stephen McNeil was replaced by Mr. David Wilson (Glace Bay).]

Mrs. Darlene Henry

Legislative Committee Clerk

HALIFAX, THURSDAY, OCTOBER 21, 2004

STANDING COMMITTEE ON VETERANS AFFAIRS

9:00 A.M.

CHAIRMAN

Mr. Michel Samson

MR. CHAIRMAN: Good morning, I would like to call the meeting of the Veterans Affairs Committee to order. I don't think we need to introduce ourselves. It says all the members who are present. For the record, we have Mr. David Wilson from the NDP caucus, and then we have the other Mr. David Wilson, from the Liberal caucus, replacing Mr. Stephen McNeil and Mr. Junior Theriault, and we have Mr. John Chataway from the government caucus.

The purpose of the meeting today is basically just an organizational meeting to get an idea of what witnesses this committee wishes to hear from, and whether the individual members have any specific requests, as to any witnesses they would like to meet with. With Remembrance Day once again just around the corner, I would be more than happy to hear any suggestions that the members have.

I've received a phone call, at my office, from a gentleman by the name of Patrick Milner. He says that he is with the Canadian Youth Remembrance Society. They would like to come and make a presentation here in front of the committee. At this point, we have very little information on them, but if it's the will of the members - it is the only specific request, I believe, we've received at this point, and that's being confirmed by Darlene. If the committee is prepared to meet with this group, then it would also give Darlene an opportunity to maybe get some background information on them, and everything else, to prepare the members for that. I would be interested in learning whether the members do wish to have this group appear before us.

Mr. Chataway.

MR. JOHN CHATAWAY: I think that's fine, the Canadian Youth Remembrance Society. If it's a legitimate organization, that's fine. Have they been around long?

MRS. DARLENE HENRY (Legislative Committee Clerk): I don't know. It's relatively new, from what I understand. I'm just trying to do research for them, they're very brand new.

MR. CHATAWAY: Do they have a special agenda? They formed an association, I presume. I wonder what (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN: At this point, we really don't know. That might be something the committee might want to find out first. If that's the case, what I might even suggest is that we ask our clerk, Darlene, to get as much information on the organization as possible. Once she's done that, if you could forward that to myself as chairman, I could have a look at it. At that point, we could see exactly what this organization is, what their mandate is. It's up to the committee whether you want to leave it to my discretion as chairman or if you want me to contact someone from each caucus beforehand, I leave it up to the committee.

MR. DAVID WILSON (Sackville-Cobequid): I think that would be a good idea, just to call someone from each caucus. I don't know if they're associated with the group that's from Yarmouth, I don't know if you're aware of the youth group down there that promotes remembrance and that stuff. I thought I recalled something coming across the office dealing with the Lieutenant Governor, and something coming up with youth remembrance and stuff like that. I'm not too sure what it's all about. Definitely, I think if you get some information, just give a call to a member from each caucus.

MR. CHAIRMAN: I'll get Darlene to make a note of that. Maybe you could just check with Mr. Chataway and Mr. David Wilson from the NDP caucus, once we have more information. Now the question becomes, the House has risen, how often would the members want to meet? I guess that's the next question.

MR. DAVID WILSON (Sackville-Cobequid): Did they suggest a time to meet?

MR. CHAIRMAN: No, they weren't specific. They just basically said they would like to meet. I'm curious as to when the committee would want to hear from them. I think next week is a little early to give Darlene enough time to get some information together. I would like to get information. I think, if it's the committee's will, once I get the information and I've had the opportunity to speak to the different caucus members, at that point then we can maybe make a decision on when we would like to meet, if that's okay with the committee members. So we won't set a specific date today, we'll wait until we have that information. Then, in consultation with different caucuses, we'll set a date as to when we can meet on that matter.

Is there any other organization or group that any of the members specifically would like to have appear before this committee? Mr. Wilson.

MR. DAVID WILSON (Sackville-Cobequid): I would like, maybe, to get in contact with the Last Post Fund. You're aware of the situation last year, when we brought to light the many veterans who were put to rest without headstones. I think there has been some movement on it. I know the case that I was working on, over the Summer they did have a headstone in place. It might be good to get them in to see if there has been an increase in funding or what the situation is. Just a suggestion.

MR. CHAIRMAN: If I might suggest, on that matter, it might be an idea if we asked the regional director from Veterans Affairs Canada, along with the appropriate representatives from that department, to appear before us. I think the Last Post Fund is very timely to raise that issue again to see where we're at.

One of the issues which I would like to discuss with them again is the Veterans Independence Program. Last time the representatives from Veterans Affairs Canada were here, they indicated that there's still some fine tuning going on with the program and that they would be getting further information to us. Now, I don't think we've gotten any further information on that and I know there are certainly some issues that are still coming up. A month doesn't go by that I don't get a call from some family or another that is still having problems with the Veterans Independence Program, the question of who qualifies and under what circumstances that person qualifies.

I'm sure many of you will have seen correspondence that came from one of my constituents. Joyce Carter, who has been a strong advocate, especially for the widows who were not included in the program, I indicated to Ms. Carter that the committee would ask Veterans Affairs Canada to come before it again to speak on this very issue. If I might suggest, rather than just have them meet for one issue, let's bring them in and indicate maybe those two specific issues of interest but I certainly think once they're here, any other issues that committee members might have, there would be an opportunity to ask them at that point. So if it's agreed, we'll try to set up Veterans Affairs Canada to also appear before the committee.

MR. DAVID WILSON (Sackville-Cobequid): That sounds good. As long as you let them know that some of the questions or concerns are around the Last Post Fund. I think last time they acknowledged that they didn't think there was a delay and it was after we met with them that I realized and found out there was quite a number of veterans who are in need of this Last Post Fund. Just so they know that will be some of the questioning and maybe they can bring some more information forward.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Exactly. In fact, what I would suggest to Darlene, and I'm sure this was her intention, that the letter would specifically state that the Last Post Fund and the Veterans Independence Program are two specific areas that the committee wishes to discuss, and any other issues that might be raised by the members, but they're at least aware that those

are two that we do expect to get information and have answers on, so we'll make that clear in the letter to them. Are there any other groups you would like to have in?

MR. CHATAWAY: It might be an idea - if we had the time - to bring in somebody from the Legion, Vic Barnes, basically just to update us. Yesterday, of course, he updated me on this whole business of Legions paying insurance and things like this and how they're doing. They appreciate the attention they get and they certainly deserve attention.

MR. CHAIRMAN: What I might suggest on that, Mr. Chataway, certainly that we would extend the invitation to the representatives from the Legion to join us for the Canadian Youth Remembrance Society and the presentation by Veterans Affairs Canada, so that they can be present for both of those presentations. What I would suggest to committee members is, let's say when we meet with the Youth Remembrance Society that we finish up early, and we have Mr. Barnes here or any other representatives, that we ask them to take a seat and give us an update. If we can't do that between those first two presentations, then maybe we can set up a meeting with them afterwards just specifically to hear an update on that. So I'm very flexible and I think the committee is flexible. If we can squeeze them into our other two presentations, we will; if not, then we'll certainly arrange for a third meeting to meet specifically with them for an update.

MRS. HENRY: If I may, usually after their Dominion convention they'll contact us to ask if they can have a meeting with us to update us on everything that happened over the course of the year.

MR. CHAIRMAN: If I'm not mistaken, isn't there a Dominion convention to be held in Nova Scotia this year? I seem to remember when they came before us that they indicated that there was going to be something here in Nova Scotia. I might be wrong, but I thought they mentioned that. Okay, we have those two groups and possibly the Legion as a third group if that's required.

Mr. Chataway, you've sent us some correspondence. Over the Summer we received a fax on June 11^th from your office and another one on July 22^nd. Did you want to just go through that correspondence for us?

MR. CHATAWAY: Thank you very much, because I had sort of forgotten about it. A request was made and I thought we should discuss this. Of course, the interesting thing is on the fourth page there is a reply from Veterans Affairs. Basically, Veterans Affairs policy does not meet this woman's request. From what I understand, her husband passed away and she needed some assistance - housekeeping services and grounds maintenance - but she was not eligible. Certainly, if we bring somebody in from Veterans Affairs to discuss Veterans Affairs Canada policy, I will try to get in touch with this woman to try to find out where it's at right now.

[9:15 a.m.]

MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Chataway. Again, this is one of the unfortunate circumstances where Mrs. MacDonald's husband apparently passed away before September 1, 1990, which is the cut-off date. That's one of the unfortunate things. I know there are a number of people who fall in there. Until Veterans Affairs makes the decision to change that date, it's going to continue to be a problem. Certainly after we meet with Veterans Affairs Canada, we may want to take the opportunity to make some representations to the minister on behalf of the committee. I know that this is an issue that certainly crosses any sort of political boundaries. I remember there was a unanimous resolution passed in the House, by the Speaker, calling upon the federal government to deal with some of the issues around the Veterans Independence Program.

One of the issues, which I'm interested in hearing from Veterans Affairs Canada, I'm running into circumstances where the veteran passed away after 1990 but was not getting the VIP program. I'm curious as to how many veterans are out there who weren't even aware they could get the benefits of this VIP program. That's the one I find even more frustrating, because if the death was before the date, it's tough to argue around that, but when it was clearly after the date but somehow these people were not aware that this program was available to them, for whatever reason, and now they're being told that because they did not apply for the program they do not qualify, which is extremely unfortunate. That's one issue I certainly wanted to raise with the committee.

Mr. Chataway, was this more a point of information for us, this correspondence, or was there something specific that you wanted the committee to do?

MR. CHATAWAY: Before the next meeting, myself or you could update with Rosella MacDonald, and find out if she is getting any assistance and what happened. I think it's very wise that the whole committee, if we can do something to help these people out, because they're getting older all the time, they're veterans, they're wives of veterans. We should certainly do something, rather than some person in Ottawa, who says oh well, we have this on our list but it's near the bottom of the pile. It's very important to this person, and I think, as you point out, Mr. Chairman, it would be very important for other people too. We should be updated.

Then we could pass a motion or put more pressure that they solve the problem now, it's not going to be a very expensive program, I don't think, compared to other programs. It would be very wise to do something now.

MR. DAVID WILSON (Glace Bay): Mr. Chairman, just out of curiosity, does Mr. Chataway know if Mrs. MacDonald appealed this?

MR. CHATAWAY: Appealed it? No, at this time, I don't.

MR. DAVID WILSON (Glace Bay): When was the last contact that you had with Mrs. MacDonald?

MR. CHATAWAY: I would imagine - this was sent by my secretary from my constituency office, so it would have come up there and she did that. I have not been updated. Of course, she's from Sydney. (Interruptions)

MR. DAVID WILSON (Glace Bay): In July?

MR. CHATAWAY: Yes, that's right.

MR. CHAIRMAN: I don't think we know specifically . . .

MR. DAVID WILSON (Sackville-Cobequid): Maybe as a suggestion, we could try to get some information, and then bring it back for the next meeting.

MR. CHATAWAY: Absolutely. Yes.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Chataway, if you could get your assistant - I think it's Tanya Kelly who's your assistant - just ask her if she could contact Mrs. MacDonald to find out if she did put in an appeal.

Just for the members' information, what was happening before under the Veterans Independence Program is that once the veteran passed away, the widow was entitled to receive that program for 12 months after the passing of the veteran, and then that was it. The changes that were made are such that any veteran who passes away today, who is in receipt of that program, his widow would continue to receive the benefits until her death. The problem is that when they made that change, they did set a date of September 1, 1990, saying that anyone before that date would not qualify.

I think it's a matter now of trying to lobby to get that date either completely eliminated or certainly moved back to a point where it would include many more of the widows. One of the questions last time, when Veterans Affairs Canada came here, was a question of whether income played a role, whether the widows remarried, whether that was taken into issue or not, and I think that kind of follows along the same problem that was encountered with some of the miners in Cape Breton, under workers' compensation, as to when some of the widows remarried and they lost benefits. I'm not sure if that's the case under this program or not. I think there's quite a bit more information that we're still lacking that I would hope will be cleared up next time.

Mr. Chataway, we'll wait for an update on this. Certainly when Veterans Affairs Canada comes before us, it would be an opportunity for yourself to again raise this. I'm sure you can send Mrs. MacDonald a copy of the Hansard transcript of this meeting, which will

clearly indicate to her that you've raised this issue and that we have discussed it. We will wait for an update from you on that.

Other than that, the other issues - every year our committee does prepare an annual report. I have a copy of a draft report, which I'm just going through right now, as chairman. Once that's completed, very shortly, a copy will be sent to all of the members. I would encourage you to just review the annual report, in case there's anything that's been omitted or that you would like to see amended. Once that's done, we can report back to Darlene and then send it off to the printer's. Do we all sign off on it, or just . . .

MRS. HENRY: Yes.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Once we're ready, a final draft will be sent to you for your signature. Then we can send that off to be tabled with the House as our annual report.

MR. CHATAWAY: When you send the draft report, I would just like sort of a summary of all the people we've met this year.

MR. CHAIRMAN: That's what's in the report. (Interruptions) The idea is to indicate what we've done, the representations, in fact there's a breakdown of who's appeared in front of us, what issues were discussed, what matters were raised by the committee. I think you'll be quite pleased with the report itself. Certainly, I thank Darlene here for the work that she's put into preparing all this for us. It would also be a good opportunity for members just to see what we've already met on. Just flipping through, I see when Veterans Affairs Canada was here, it mentions about the Last Post Fund and everything else. It might be an idea just to reflect on that, too, to see what representations were made at that time.

Other than that, I would certainly entertain a motion for us to adjourn, and that our next meeting will be at the call of the Chair, based on the information we receive from the presenters.

MR. CHATAWAY: So moved.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.

The motion is carried.

Our committee is now adjourned. Thank you for coming.

[The committee adjourned at 9:24 a.m.]